195 réponses à ce sujet

[N7_SP3CTRE]

I dunno,
I think I'm gonna go with canarius on this one.
It might be kinda nice to see your old characters again, even if you do have to recreate their faces.
As for personality, They (BioWare) could allow you to choose in the begining of the game in character creation your Warden/Orlesion Commander and Hawke's personality.
Like uh, whether they were (NOT TRYING TO SOUND MEAN,because you only had like three options you could be in both games: Nice, Sarcastic, Mean/Aggressive. respectfully)
That way your character would be like you,when you played them.
My Hawke was pretty much always good, the only time I wasn't picking the top right (Light Blue Icon) was every now and then I'd make a joke (Purple Middle Icon with Jester Mask)
Maybe it's just because I'm such a jolly guy all the time BUT I really enjoyed both Dragon Age II and Mass Effect 3 as much as their predecessors. (no joke, really)


But everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
This was merely my own humble opinion, and I apologize if I might have made anyone upset.

[ReallyRue]

Toasted Llama wrote...

There's issues on both sides of the discussion:

Reasons to add the Warden/Hawke:
- They "disappeared", people want closure. As well as the Hero of Ferelden and the possible Viscount of Kirkwall don't "just disappear"
- Male Warden romanced Morrigan and had an OGB with her
- Male Warden married Anora and became king/Female Warden married Alistair and became queen. IF the ruler of Ferelden is involved in the storyline, the King/Queen-Warden should be around. Disappearing is barely plausible for a King or Queen.
- Warden-Commander could have ties with the rumored Grey Warden companion
- I've read rumors about another Blight. If it happens, the Warden is obliged to do something about it
And as I haven't finished DA2, I can't find any reasons for Hawke other than him/her royally pissing off either Templars or Mages and thus being hunted down.

I think in the case of the points for the inclusion of the Warden/Hawke (especially the Warden), these can somewhat be solved via word-of-mouth from previous companions. Assuming there isn't a reason they've 'disappeared'.

-If your male Warden romanced Morrigan and fathered her child, perhaps he's doing something with it whilst she goes about her business. I doubt the child will be with her every time she appears, and the Warden can still be with her without being *with* her. She could reference what he's doing.

-Alistair/Anora can similarly reference their husband/wife. The Warden could have gone to help with the troubles with the Circle, or an uprising somewhere, the threat of invasion from Orlais, whatever.

-If something big is going off with the Wardens, your Warden could be involved off-screen. If your Warden companion is the chatty type, he might reference their involvement, what they're investigating, etc. If not, Warden Alistair/Loghain/Hawke siblings/Awakening companions would serve the same purpose. Or an LI.

-Warden having ties with the Warden companion: same as above, he could reference their activities, if myths/stories about the Warden within the Grey Wardens (could be a way to reference things like the Architect, especially if Corypheus is involved in this story).

-As for Hawke, they could be involved in the mage/templar war, or off helping the Wardens with their sibling, or whatever. They could be hunted down, but you could deal with some of their hunters without ever coming across the Warden. The hunters could be after Varric (or another DA2 companion, and you help them out). You could hear about their activities from siblings/LI or Varric himself as a companion. I'm not sure what Hawke's involvement would be in the story if they aren't a mage (especially if Beth is dead) though.



Personally, I don't mind whether they feature the Warden/Hawke, but I would like lots of references, especially from people who know them or would have an opinion on them (Varric, Cassandra and Warden companion). If they do appear, I would want it to be a significant moment or role, not just:
NPC: "Hey, lookie, is that the Warden?" *points to a distant shape on a horse* "Now, was it three potions you wanted to buy?"

Modifié par ReallyRue, 19 août 2013 - 12:25 .

[LucianaIV]

Nefla wrote...

Really though I think it's a pointless debate because I seriously doubt they will do it.

That's because you don't want them to, and because of that, you convince yourself that Bioware shares your view and thus won't bother with it.

I'm guilty of it too myself, I want them to, so I convince myself that they see it my way and that there simply isn't a way around it for them, that events as big as in DA:I surely aren't going to just be ignored by someone like The Warden.

Bottom line is, if they do what people like me want, they'll ****** people like you off and vice versa, no matter what they do, a lot of people will be angry, so Bioware should just go with what they intend to do rather then desperately try to please everyone.

Modifié par LucianaIV, 19 août 2013 - 12:28 .

[N7_SP3CTRE]

ReallyRue wrote...

Toasted Llama wrote...

There's issues on both sides of the discussion:

Reasons to add the Warden/Hawke:
- They "disappeared", people want closure. As well as the Hero of Ferelden and the possible Viscount of Kirkwall don't "just disappear"
- Male Warden romanced Morrigan and had an OGB with her
- Male Warden married Anora and became king/Female Warden married Alistair and became queen. IF the ruler of Ferelden is involved in the storyline, the King/Queen-Warden should be around. Disappearing is barely plausible for a King or Queen.
- Warden-Commander could have ties with the rumored Grey Warden companion
- I've read rumors about another Blight. If it happens, the Warden is obliged to do something about it
And as I haven't finished DA2, I can't find any reasons for Hawke other than him/her royally pissing off either Templars or Mages and thus being hunted down.

I think in the case of the points for the inclusion of the Warden/Hawke (especially the Warden), these can somewhat be solved via word-of-mouth from previous companions. Assuming there isn't a reason they've 'disappeared'.

-If your male Warden romanced Morrigan and fathered her child, perhaps he's doing something with it whilst she goes about her business. I doubt the child will be with her every time she appears, and the Warden can still be with her without being *with* her. She could reference what he's doing.

-Alistair/Anora can similarly reference their husband/wife. The Warden could have gone to help with the troubles with the Circle, or an uprising somewhere, the threat of invasion from Orlais, whatever.

-If something big is going off with the Wardens, your Warden could be involved off-screen. If your Warden companion is the chatty type, he might reference their involvement, what they're investigating, etc. If not, Warden Alistair/Loghain/Hawke siblings/Awakening companions would serve the same purpose. Or an LI.

-Warden having ties with the Warden companion: same as above, he could reference their activities, if myths/stories about the Warden within the Grey Wardens (could be a way to reference things like the Architect, especially if Corypheus is involved in this story).

-As for Hawke, they could be involved in the mage/templar war, or off helping the Wardens with their sibling, or whatever. They could be hunted down, but you could deal with some of their hunters without ever coming across the Warden. The hunters could be after Varric (or another DA2 companion, and you help them out). You could hear about their activities from siblings/LI or Varric himself as a companion. I'm not sure what Hawke's involvement would be in the story if they aren't a mage (especially if Beth is dead) though.



Personally, I don't mind whether they feature the Warden/Hawke, but I would like lots of references, especially from people who know them or would have an opinion on them (Varric, Cassandra and Warden companion). If they do appear, I would want it to be a significant moment or role, not just:
NPC: "Hey, lookie, is that the Warden?" *points to a distant shape on a horse* "Now, was it three potions you wanted to buy?"

Come on? Seriously? Would would let Bethany die?  *Jokingly*
But yeah I agree completely.
I definitly would like to at least hear about them.

Anyone remember what Varric said to Cassandra?  Something along the lines of: And your looking for the one person who can help put it all back together.  (refering to Anders starting a war after blowing up the Chantry)

So I'd at least like to hear about Hawke (I thought Hawke was a cool character)
As for what Hawke's role in the Mage/Templar war would be: He/She was a companion with the guy who started it all (Anders) and he/she either helped out the Templars or the Mages.

Now as far as The Warden goes: assuming the warden isn't dead. Had a ugly demon child (I'm just kinding about the ugly part) with Morrigan. OR perhaps was King/Queen.

I don't know.
I have alot faith in BioWare, I'll enjoy the game no matter what.  :innocent:

[Azaron Nightblade]

Toasted Llama wrote...

There's issues on both sides of the discussion:

Reasons to add the Warden/Hawke:
- They "disappeared", people want closure. As well as the Hero of Ferelden and the possible Viscount of Kirkwall don't "just disappear"
- Male Warden romanced Morrigan and had an OGB with her
- Male Warden married Anora and became king/Female Warden married Alistair and became queen. IF the ruler of Ferelden is involved in the storyline, the King/Queen-Warden should be around. Disappearing is barely plausible for a King or Queen.
- Warden-Commander could have ties with the rumored Grey Warden companion
- I've read rumors about another Blight. If it happens, the Warden is obliged to do something about it
And as I haven't finished DA2, I can't find any reasons for Hawke other than him/her royally pissing off either Templars or Mages and thus being hunted down.

However, before people throw sticks and stones at me for being "pro Warden/Hawke reappearance" I'm very well aware that there are also plenty of (important) reasons to NOT make the Warden/Hawke reappear.
- Bioware could NEVER EVER properly capture the headcanon of most people
- Bioware could most likely never ever re-produce the proper face and hair of the Warden or Hawke
- Bioware could NEVER EVER properly capture the personality of the Warden. Hawke is plausible, but extremely difficult.
- Bioware would have to waste a sh*t load of resources to provide for ALL the variables that are plausible
- I am personally still sceptical about savegames being imported to the next gen consoles. Especially if we're talking about people moving from Xbox 360 to PS4 and PS3 to Xbox One, I highly doubt if it's even plausible
- Look at what happened to Alistair and Zevran in DA2, as well as what happened to Revan in SW:TOR (haven't played SW:KOTOR or SW:TOR, but I've heard enough to trust it's disastrous)

So this is a discussion that's never going to be solved and there are, without a doubt, going to be upset, angry and disappointed people.

Technically the Warden doesn't really become King/Queen - the epilogue calls it Prince/Princess-Consort or something.
So they wouldn't really have to be there in person, it'd be perfectly acceptable for Anora/Alistaire to tell the Inquisitor that her/his husband/wife is leading the troops against the invading hordes and is currently unable to be there in person to meet with you.

I don't really need to see them, or have them playable - but at least undoing the whole "They vanished into thin air!" from DA2 would be nice.
Especially since I think that was the plan all along with the Exalted March.

[Ieldra]

wright1978 wrote...
Because it would most likely involve forcing a defined characterisation on them that could/would differ from player characterisation. Also can't see a way for them to appear visually without it either seeming completely cheap or introducing a default look that would clash with player customised appearance.

Also there is absolutely no need to see them on screen. It's a big world they can be off elsewhere without appearing & still be referenced.

Exactly that. I'd like them to be referenced in a plausible way, based on decisions made in earlier games, but not to show up in person.

What I do want is that their decisions have some big consequences. My main Warden shouldn't show up in person, but I certainly want the fact that he created the OGC with Morrigan to have significant impact.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 août 2013 - 12:49 .

[Toasted Llama]

ReallyRue wrote...

I think in the case of the points for the inclusion of the Warden/Hawke (especially the Warden), these can somewhat be solved via word-of-mouth from previous companions. Assuming there isn't a reason they've 'disappeared'.

-If your male Warden romanced Morrigan and fathered her child, perhaps he's doing something with it whilst she goes about her business. I doubt the child will be with her every time she appears, and the Warden can still be with her without being *with* her. She could reference what he's doing.

-Alistair/Anora can similarly reference their husband/wife. The Warden could have gone to help with the troubles with the Circle, or an uprising somewhere, the threat of invasion from Orlais, whatever.

-If something big is going off with the Wardens, your Warden could be involved off-screen. If your Warden companion is the chatty type, he might reference their involvement, what they're investigating, etc. If not, Warden Alistair/Loghain/Hawke siblings/Awakening companions would serve the same purpose. Or an LI.

-Warden having ties with the Warden companion: same as above, he could reference their activities, if myths/stories about the Warden within the Grey Wardens (could be a way to reference things like the Architect, especially if Corypheus is involved in this story).

-As for Hawke, they could be involved in the mage/templar war, or off helping the Wardens with their sibling, or whatever. They could be hunted down, but you could deal with some of their hunters without ever coming across the Warden. The hunters could be after Varric (or another DA2 companion, and you help them out). You could hear about their activities from siblings/LI or Varric himself as a companion. I'm not sure what Hawke's involvement would be in the story if they aren't a mage (especially if Beth is dead) though.



Personally, I don't mind whether they feature the Warden/Hawke, but I would like lots of references, especially from people who know them or would have an opinion on them (Varric, Cassandra and Warden companion). If they do appear, I would want it to be a significant moment or role, not just:
NPC: "Hey, lookie, is that the Warden?" *points to a distant shape on a horse* "Now, was it three potions you wanted to buy?"

Ofcourse you could just have proper references to them, but even THEN some players aren't going to be content. Some might say "My Warden/Hawke would never do X or Y!" when they are being referenced. Some might think their male Warden would never leave Morrigan's side for example.

Still, referencing would be the best of both worlds, so my guess is they'll let ex-companions or codex pages reference to Warden/Hawke.

[Toasted Llama]

krul2k wrote...

I dont, they didnt need to  have it be said in DA2 that hawke n the warden disappeared

Very true, the epilogues from DA:O for my Warden were closure enough for me.

[Androme]

 I love you op, thank you. You put it perfectly.

I want closure, and I don't delude myself with headcanon, if people will be heartbroken because their canon is lost, so be it.

Modifié par Androme, 19 août 2013 - 02:43 .

[Taleroth]

Bioware struggles to write its own characters consistently when the writer changes. I have no trust for them writing the Warden or Hawke in a way consistent with the choices and actions in prior games.

[djbc80]

the two most important thedas heroes we know and will not participate in a problem that seems to bring the world to an end, it makes no sense to me.

[Nefla]

LucianaIV wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Really though I think it's a pointless debate because I seriously doubt they will do it.

That's because you don't want them to, and because of that, you convince yourself that Bioware shares your view and thus won't bother with it.

I'm guilty of it too myself, I want them to, so I convince myself that they see it my way and that there simply isn't a way around it for them, that events as big as in DA:I surely aren't going to just be ignored by someone like The Warden.

Bottom line is, if they do what people like me want, they'll ****** people like you off and vice versa, no matter what they do, a lot of people will be angry, so Bioware should just go with what they intend to do rather then desperately try to please everyone.

No, I think that because it would be a huge undertaking that would cost a ton of time and resources with nothing gained except the goodwill of a few fans who have already bought the game. I don't want multiplayer but I still think they will do it. I want to be able to jump and climb and wear a big poofy dress but I doubt they will let me do it. I won't be pissed off either way, at most I'd be like "uh...ok."

[LucianaIV]

Nefla wrote...

LucianaIV wrote...

Nefla wrote...

Really though I think it's a pointless debate because I seriously doubt they will do it.

That's because you don't want them to, and because of that, you convince yourself that Bioware shares your view and thus won't bother with it.

I'm guilty of it too myself, I want them to, so I convince myself that they see it my way and that there simply isn't a way around it for them, that events as big as in DA:I surely aren't going to just be ignored by someone like The Warden.

Bottom line is, if they do what people like me want, they'll ****** people like you off and vice versa, no matter what they do, a lot of people will be angry, so Bioware should just go with what they intend to do rather then desperately try to please everyone.

No, I think that because it would be a huge undertaking that would cost a ton of time and resources with nothing gained except the goodwill of a few fans who have already bought the game. I don't want multiplayer but I still think they will do it. I want to be able to jump and climb and wear a big poofy dress but I doubt they will let me do it. I won't be pissed off either way, at most I'd be like "uh...ok."

Ehh, what makes you conclude that it concerns ''a few fans''?

[serenity38]

Wow, you all have good points (accept the people who say its only fan based.) I will point out the warden/champion are focal points of the whole story and were mentioned as much at end of DA2. Why do you think Cassandra is looking for them? She also mentioned both dissapeared somewhere. Not to mention this wont be the last DA. there are a few things i'd like to see since they did mention you have to recruit members:
1. I would like to see the warden as a leader of a the order or at least a branch in which we can recruit with Bethany as right hand if she went warden.
2. the champion has his/her own followers and can be a rebel faction in which you can also recruit.
3. I know this isn't part of the topic but a banner/emblem maker for your inquisition would be nice.
I don't understand why some people are so adverse to adding the hero's its part of the story one way or the other.

[Jerrybnsn]

In regards to the argument that the "variables" are too complicated to have Hawke and the Warden return. This article came out today, which seems to me to have been said before in regards to importing decisions with all those complicated variables.

"In the meantime, there is good news for fans who are heavily invested in their other Dragon Age characters. Your previous saves will be part of the new game and you can access them regardless of what platform you use, at least that's what producer Cameron Lee told the crowd at PAX Australia last month."--www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/19308/20130807/dragon-age-3-inquisition-release-date-news.htm

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 19 août 2013 - 04:47 .

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

In regards to the argument that the "variables" are too complicated to have Hawke and the Warden return. This article came out today, which seems to me to have been said before in regards to importing decisions with all those complicated variables.

"In the meantime, there is good news for fans who are heavily invested in their other Dragon Age characters. Your previous saves will be part of the new game and you can access them regardless of what platform you use, at least that's what producer Cameron Lee told the crowd at PAX Australia last month."--www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/19308/20130807/dragon-age-3-inquisition-release-date-news.htm

That does not mean that we will meet the characters, just that some of the consequence for their actions comes across and the new PC will dealw with them.

Or do you really think that bioware somehow flagged or will allow me to flag that My Hawke was mostly diplomatic, but choose the agressive options everytime the plot revolved templars, chantry or somebody saying she was wrong?
Edit, what will come across, however is properly that Hawke fought and killed Merrill's clan.

Modifié par esper, 19 août 2013 - 04:53 .

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

In regards to the argument that the "variables" are too complicated to have Hawke and the Warden return. This article came out today, which seems to me to have been said before in regards to importing decisions with all those complicated variables.

"In the meantime, there is good news for fans who are heavily invested in their other Dragon Age characters. Your previous saves will be part of the new game and you can access them regardless of what platform you use, at least that's what producer Cameron Lee told the crowd at PAX Australia last month."--www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/19308/20130807/dragon-age-3-inquisition-release-date-news.htm

That does not mean that we will meet the characters, just that some of the consequence for their actions comes across and the new PC will dealw with them.

Or do you really think that bioware somehow flagged or will allow me to flag that My Hawke was mostly diplomatic, but choose the agressive options everytime the plot revolved templars, chantry or somebody saying she was wrong?
Edit, what will come across, however is properly that Hawke fought and killed Merrill's clan.

So when we are talking variables here, we are talking just about voice reflection? or are there some other variables.  I assumed that the decisions that each individual Wardens or Hawkes made was the issue as far as how it would fit into the Inquisition storyline.  But jus to be clear; variables are all about voice.  Or are there any other variables that would cause a problem with casting the Warden and Hawke in the game?

If that's it, how about they just make the appearance where the Inquisitor takes a short break, and you control your Hawke's responses.  Would that take care of the variable problem?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 19 août 2013 - 06:27 .

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

In regards to the argument that the "variables" are too complicated to have Hawke and the Warden return. This article came out today, which seems to me to have been said before in regards to importing decisions with all those complicated variables.

"In the meantime, there is good news for fans who are heavily invested in their other Dragon Age characters. Your previous saves will be part of the new game and you can access them regardless of what platform you use, at least that's what producer Cameron Lee told the crowd at PAX Australia last month."--www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/19308/20130807/dragon-age-3-inquisition-release-date-news.htm

That does not mean that we will meet the characters, just that some of the consequence for their actions comes across and the new PC will dealw with them.

Or do you really think that bioware somehow flagged or will allow me to flag that My Hawke was mostly diplomatic, but choose the agressive options everytime the plot revolved templars, chantry or somebody saying she was wrong?
Edit, what will come across, however is properly that Hawke fought and killed Merrill's clan.

So when we are talking variables here, we are talking about voice reflection? or are there some other variables.  I assumed that the decisions that each individual Wardens or Hawkes made was the issue as far as how it would fit into the Inquisition storyline.  But jus to be clear; variables are all about voice.  Or are there any other variables that would cause a problem with casting the Warden and Hawke in the game?

If that's it, how about they just make the appearance where the Inquisitor takes a short break, and you control your Hawke's responses.  Would that take care of the variable problem?

No, we are still talking about personality. My Hawke was overall diplomatic, but consitently reacted with more and more 'red choice' toward certain situations, as it was possible for me to do so in game, this is canon. Bioware cannot recreate that nor do I expect them to.

And we have been flat out told that we will not be getting control of our characters back and even if it did her not being a player character would basically force her to act less extreme than she was, do to the fact that she should not be overshadowing the new PC.

And then we are not even getting into my wardens personality.

[Jerrybnsn]

No, we are still talking about personality. My Hawke was overall diplomatic, but consitently reacted with more and more 'red choice' toward certain situations, as it was possible for me to do so in game, this is canon. Bioware cannot recreate that nor do I expect them to.

So as  you used the more diplomatic, snarky or aggressive choices it pretty much sets to that personality tone for how he talked?  Did they have a code written to make that happen?  How does that work?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 19 août 2013 - 06:41 .

[Taleroth]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

No, we are still talking about personality. My Hawke was overall diplomatic, but consitently reacted with more and more 'red choice' toward certain situations, as it was possible for me to do so in game, this is canon. Bioware cannot recreate that nor do I expect them to.

So as  you used the more diplomatic, snarky or aggressive choices it pretty much sets to that personality tone for how he talked?  Did they have a code written to make that happen?  How does that work?

They never said tone.

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

No, we are still talking about personality. My Hawke was overall diplomatic, but consitently reacted with more and more 'red choice' toward certain situations, as it was possible for me to do so in game, this is canon. Bioware cannot recreate that nor do I expect them to.

So as  you used the more diplomatic, snarky or aggressive choices it pretty much sets to that personality tone for how he talked?  Did they have a code written to make that happen?  How does that work?

First off, all my characters are a she.

Second. Diplomatic was her standard, she snarked occasionally when she was in relaxed situations, but she was always direct/angry and out right violent when she was angry, and there was specific groups and specific situations were she was always angry. And yes they had a code to make that happen. It was named the dialog wheel.

[Jerrybnsn]

Taleroth wrote...

Jerrybnsn wrote...

No, we are still talking about personality. My Hawke was overall diplomatic, but consitently reacted with more and more 'red choice' toward certain situations, as it was possible for me to do so in game, this is canon. Bioware cannot recreate that nor do I expect them to.

So as  you used the more diplomatic, snarky or aggressive choices it pretty much sets to that personality tone for how he talked?  Did they have a code written to make that happen?  How does that work?

They never said tone.

Well then how would you know a character is speaking in a certain personality?  What happens?

[Androme]

The main argument people have against their Wardens and Champions reappearing in DA:I is that ''they can't recreate MY Warden/MY Champion'', well, that's not the point either. The Warden and The Champion are NPC's now, they're no longer your characters, and BioWare can do with them what they please. They might decide not to introduce them in the game, then fine, so be it, but I expect they will, and I don't expect my character to be like how I ''imagined'' my Warden when I played him. My Warden is now an NPC that will be written by BioWare, not me.

[Knight of Dane]

Androme wrote...

The main argument people have against their Wardens and Champions reappearing in DA:I is that ''they can't recreate MY Warden/MY Champion'', well, that's not the point either. The Warden and The Champion are NPC's now, they're no longer your characters, and BioWare can do with them what they please. They might decide not to introduce them in the game, then fine, so be it, but I expect they will, and I don't expect my character to be like how I ''imagined'' my Warden when I played him. My Warden is now an NPC that will be written by BioWare, not me.

Please, people don't want to see "a" warden or "a" Hawke, they want to see theirs. If it is not the charatcer we created then what is all the fuss about?