195 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Sanunes wrote...

Black Jimmy wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I have no attachment to my Warden or Hawkes. I simply see no reason for their inclusion in the game. What purpose does it serve other than fan service? If the Warden or Hawke have no meaningful part in the story it is just like Alistair showing up for his cameo which also does not appear in all playthroughs of DA2. It simply wasted resources as far as I am concerned that can be put to better use like making a better story for the Inquisitor.

Except it seems the Grey Wardens have a big role and both the mages and Templars obiously will.
The Warden could very easily be set up in the Grey Warden story.
Depending on who he chose Hawke may be fighting for the Templars or Mages. Especially if he chose the Mages. Who else would take him in?

That doesn't mean that the PC from the first two games need to be part of the game, those characters are no longer in our control and if they were to return they would be following a script just like any other NPC in the game, which means they wouldn't have the motivations that I instilled in those characters while playing them.  So if its not truely our Warden and Hawke because they don't have the motivations with placed in them why have them return instead of some random character representing those factions?

Cohesion? Continuity? Better narrative? Fanservice? You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing. ME didn´t need Shepard everygame (especially for 2), but it´s better for it. Things such as the krogan arc worked because it was always seen through th eyes of the same main character. Meeting Wrex with one PC, Mordin with another, and make the final choice with yet another wouldn´t have worked half as well.

[Taleroth]

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing.

It's not an overarching story. Dragon Age: Origins was about a blight in Fereldan. DAII was about Kirkwall being full of morons and crazy people. Dragon Age: I is about a tear in the veil focused on Orlais and some Fereldan.

These are different stories, they simply have connected thread because of the shared setting.

Modifié par Taleroth, 19 août 2013 - 09:34 .

[Azaron Nightblade]

Taleroth wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing.

It's not an overarching story. Dragon Age: Origins was about a blight in Fereldan. DAII was about Kirkwall being full of morons and crazy people. Dragon Age: I is about a tear in the veil focused on Orlais and some Fereldan.

These are different stories, they simply have connected thread because of the shared setting.

Yep, a bit like the old Forgotten Realms novels - where you had dozens of heroes running around, having adventures in the same setting and usually not running into each other.
A story with multiple "main" characters could also work, it's something that's been done in plenty of novels after all - the Wheel of Time being one of those series that has more than one "main" character who's adventures you follow in the books for example.

Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story, and DA:I will be the Inquisitor's, just like DA2 was Hawke's and Origins' the Warden's.
But they could do it successfully if they wanted to and still make a great story.

Modifié par Azaron Nightblade, 19 août 2013 - 09:49 .

[Nerevar-as]

Taleroth wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing.

It's not an overarching story. Dragon Age: Origins was about a blight in Fereldan. DAII was about Kirkwall being full of morons and crazy people. Dragon Age: I is about a tear in the veil focused on Orlais and some Fereldan.

These are different stories, they simply have connected thread because of the shared setting.

ME2 was barely connected to the other 2, so DAII isn´t the best example either. Have to wonder if we would be talking about the Inquisitor had Hawke succeeded. S/he was trying (too hard to work) to be a new Shepard.

But now in DA:I we start getting supporting characters the PC could be very involved with doing quite important things setting wide. Morrigan and Leliana look like they are going to be important. So do the GW. And who knows what else.

[Taleroth]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing.

It's not an overarching story. Dragon Age: Origins was about a blight in Fereldan. DAII was about Kirkwall being full of morons and crazy people. Dragon Age: I is about a tear in the veil focused on Orlais and some Fereldan.

These are different stories, they simply have connected thread because of the shared setting.

ME2 was barely connected to the other 2, so DAII isn´t the best example either. Have to wonder if we would be talking about the Inquisitor had Hawke succeeded. S/he was trying (too hard to work) to be a new Shepard.

But now in DA:I we start getting supporting characters the PC could be very involved with doing quite important things setting wide. Morrigan and Leliana look like they are going to be important. So do the GW. And who knows what else.

The Grey Wardens are important to the setting, not just one guy. Even Sten knew about them and heard great tales, he was a foreigner. And everything we've seen so far implies adversarial possibilities.

All titles in the franchise have had some greater setting implication. That's just kind of how Bioware rols. It doesn't make them an arch, though some characters (like Morrigan) clearly have their own.

Modifié par Taleroth, 19 août 2013 - 10:02 .

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...

But I have another question, since you want to see them again. What do you actually imagine your Hawke would say to the new PC's group? He doesn't exactly sound like, 'help the newbie along', kind of guy.

I'm not sure what the plot is, so what I'm suggesting could be way out of place, but I was thinking that Hawke wouldn't being dealing directly with the Inquisitor and the party, but Varric would tell the Inquisitor he can go and talk to Hawke and do this one thing that needs to be done.  Then Varric had his reunion with Hawke, goes with him for what they need to do (maybe Hawke sacrifice's his life for the greater good of the entire party, or he's just redeeming himself for his past sins).  But, I would want to control Hawke and the dialogue that he would have with Varric.

Same with the Warden,  if Leliana is part of the party she can go to him/her.

[Jerrybnsn]

Black Jimmy wrote...

 
Depending on who he chose Hawke may be fighting for the Templars or Mages. Especially if he chose the Mages. Who else would take him in?

I'm not sure if you are taking into account solving his disapperance and then joins the fight, or not.  But he is missing to start the game, no one, mage or templar, knows where he is at.  That is canon going into Inquisition.  And Bioware has a reason as to why he is missing that supposedly will be explained, somehow, someway.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 19 août 2013 - 10:16 .

[Sanunes]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Cohesion? Continuity? Better narrative? Fanservice? You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing. ME didn´t need Shepard everygame (especially for 2), but it´s better for it. Things such as the krogan arc worked because it was always seen through th eyes of the same main character. Meeting Wrex with one PC, Mordin with another, and make the final choice with yet another wouldn´t have worked half as well.

You are right those moments in the Mass Effect franchise are nice, but the franchise was designed to be around the story of Shepard.  Dragon Age isn't designed to be centered on a single character and I think no matter what people are saying if The Warden or Hawke are simple NPCs there will be Mass Effect 3 ending blacklash because it wasn't there characters.

Besides one of the complaints I hear around Mass Effect 3 is that Shepard no longer felt like the Shepard they made in the first two games so that breaks the cohesion and continuity you are saying the return of Warden or Hawke would achieve and I think no matter what happens especially if they are NPCs it will be the exact same complaints.

[Nerevar-as]

Sanunes wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Cohesion? Continuity? Better narrative? Fanservice? You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing. ME didn´t need Shepard everygame (especially for 2), but it´s better for it. Things such as the krogan arc worked because it was always seen through th eyes of the same main character. Meeting Wrex with one PC, Mordin with another, and make the final choice with yet another wouldn´t have worked half as well.

You are right those moments in the Mass Effect franchise are nice, but the franchise was designed to be around the story of Shepard.  Dragon Age isn't designed to be centered on a single character and I think no matter what people are saying if The Warden or Hawke are simple NPCs there will be Mass Effect 3 ending blacklash because it wasn't there characters.

Besides one of the complaints I hear around Mass Effect 3 is that Shepard no longer felt like the Shepard they made in the first two games so that breaks the cohesion and continuity you are saying the return of Warden or Hawke would achieve and I think no matter what happens especially if they are NPCs it will be the exact same complaints.

I don´t think we´ll see anything similar to ME3 ending controversy ever again, it´s impossible to do something worse without actively trying. Giving Shepard fixed reactions to some events wasn´t their best idea either.

Anyway, I don´t want GW or Hawke as NPCs, I want them as PCs again, if only for some brief time. Otherwise, I´d like a good reason my Cousland isn´t helping/keeping in check Morrigan, and some other iterations if I ever go back to my other GWs. Would a mage Warden Commander sit out the war? Leave Leliana on her own? And so on. Kotor 2 managed to allow for 4 possibilities without save import years ago.

[Reidbynature]

I personally don't think there will be even half the fuss that some on the BSN would have you believe if the Warden and Hawke turned up.

[BlazingSpeed]

Catroi wrote...

because of this:

Yep, ruined.

On topic how and why would the Warden be in Orlais?

Morrigan will probably just tell the Inquisitor to mind thier own business if they mention the Warden.

Modifié par BlazingSpeed, 19 août 2013 - 11:26 .

[In Exile]

Reidbynature wrote...

I personally don't think there will be even half the fuss that some on the BSN would have you believe if the Warden and Hawke turned up.

They will be the fuss. 

[Aaleel]

BlazingSpeed wrote...

Catroi wrote...

because of this:

Yep, ruined.

Wow, WTH was that.  I'm so glad I listened to my friends and didn't play that game.

[In Exile]

Nerevar-as wrote...
Cohesion? Continuity? Better narrative? Fanservice? You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing. ME didn´t need Shepard everygame (especially for 2), but it´s better for it. Things such as the krogan arc worked because it was always seen through th eyes of the same main character. Meeting Wrex with one PC, Mordin with another, and make the final choice with yet another wouldn´t have worked half as well.

Sure it would have. It's not as if you as the player get lobotomized between games. 

The only way the krogran plot improves with one PC is if you save Wrex and then doom his people - then you get a gut punch of a scene. 

Modifié par In Exile, 19 août 2013 - 11:42 .

[Kommunicating]

It's obviously fan service to the players to have they're Wardens and Hawkes show up.
Unless the story makes sense to actually include these characters into Inquisition, I don't see them showing up. Especially the Warden. Gaider said our Warden's story is over and while he did also say something along the line of, "Just because you can't play your Warden or Hawke again, doesn't mean they won't show up." The only character I would see showing up in the next game out of the two, is Hawke. Because he/she was at the heart of the event of the Mage v. Templar conflict that is still currently going on in Inquisition.

[Iakus]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I don´t think we´ll see anything similar to ME3 ending controversy ever again, it´s impossible to do something worse without actively trying. Giving Shepard fixed reactions to some events wasn´t their best idea either.

Anyway, I don´t want GW or Hawke as NPCs, I want them as PCs again, if only for some brief time. Otherwise, I´d like a good reason my Cousland isn´t helping/keeping in check Morrigan, and some other iterations if I ever go back to my other GWs. Would a mage Warden Commander sit out the war? Leave Leliana on her own? And so on. Kotor 2 managed to allow for 4 possibilities without save import years ago.

I wish I had that level of confidence, but I don't.

I say let the Warden and Hawke's stroeis be finished.  Let us headcanon them off having new adventures, or living in some private cottage in the Anderfels with their LI, or going off playing pirate, or researching lost Dalish culture, or whatever.  Or show Leliana going off to have a meetup with "her Warden"

No good can come from them playing any kind of significant role in DAI.  And a lot of harm can be done.

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...

...... and my warden is travelling, she said she would travel and both ending off da:o/a had her travelling and in da2 it was confirmed that she travelled.

I didn't know traveling wardens were still considering traveling at the end of DA2.  I assumed everyone received the warden is missing.  Who where you traveling with?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 août 2013 - 04:51 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Nerevar-as wrote...


Things such as the krogan arc worked because it was always seen through th eyes of the same main character. Meeting Wrex with one PC, Mordin with another, and make the final choice with yet another wouldn´t have worked half as well.

Also having to deal with the problem of reintroducing the new character to the old ones that you already know so well?  For instance, it's suggested that the templar Cullen might be a companion.  But I already know how he wanted to wipe out all of the mages in the circle and how he was making an hysterical case to the head knight templar.  He's already lost my trust and I wouldn't want him in my party or would try to kill him the first chance I get.  And Varric,  I already know Varric, but now I have to establish a relationship all over again with him? 

[Jerrybnsn]

Taleroth wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

You can´t have an overarching story changing the main character each chapter while supporting cast and main and secondary plots keep developing.

It's not an overarching story. Dragon Age: Origins was about a blight in Fereldan. DAII was about Kirkwall being full of morons and crazy people. Dragon Age: I is about a tear in the veil focused on Orlais and some Fereldan.

These are different stories, they simply have connected thread because of the shared setting.

When plot points are brought forward from one episode through a series that is the overarching story.  The story arch and the main story are mostly not the same in a series, but will stay in the background, and be brought forward as the main story in certain episodes.

I think the Dragon Age series has an overarching story going on that involves Flemeth, the legend of Andraste and the Maker and.... 

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...
Also having to deal with the problem of reintroducing the new character to the old ones that you already know so well?

Why would you have to reintroduce the character? To new players? They didn't really do that with Wrex. To the old players? They already know who that person is. 

There's no reason to reintroduce anyone. 

[Jerrybnsn]

Reidbynature wrote...

I personally don't think there will be even half the fuss that some on the BSN would have you believe if the Warden and Hawke turned up.

I wondered about that too.  There certainly was a lot of fuss about mulitplayer, but now that we have it, it seems that 100% of the forum is for it now.  Same with Morrigan's appearance again.

[In Exile]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

I wondered about that too.  There certainly was a lot of fuss about mulitplayer, but now that we have it, it seems that 100% of the forum is for it now.  Same with Morrigan's appearance again.

Yeah, just like the ending.... wait. 

[Aaleel]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

I personally don't think there will be even half the fuss that some on the BSN would have you believe if the Warden and Hawke turned up.

I wondered about that too.  There certainly was a lot of fuss about mulitplayer, but now that we have it, it seems that 100% of the forum is for it now.  Same with Morrigan's appearance again.

I absolutely hate MP, I just don't say anything about it because I just won't play it, no need to say anything else.  Doesn't mean I'm for it.

On topic I just don't see a need for the Warden or Hawke to return.  There were so many endings for the Warden, but somehow they're all going to lead back here.  No Warden's went on their calling, none would rather stay out of this?

Is a Mage Hawke going to act the same as a non mage Hawke.  Is a pro templar Hawke going to act the same as pro mage Hawke.

You would have to fit the Warden and Hawke into the story in a variety of ways based on past choices to make it come close to working.  Trust me Bioware will get taken to task if the funnel every Warden and every Hawke into a cookie cutter closure, and deservedly so.

Just let them be and use the resources elsewhere. 

Modifié par Aaleel, 20 août 2013 - 12:43 .

[Ryzaki]

Ugh no I don't want to see my Warden/Hawke unless it's to say they're dead.

I got enough seeing my Revan completely derailed. Don't wanna go through that again.

[Iakus]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

Reidbynature wrote...

I personally don't think there will be even half the fuss that some on the BSN would have you believe if the Warden and Hawke turned up.

I wondered about that too.  There certainly was a lot of fuss about mulitplayer, but now that we have it, it seems that 100% of the forum is for it now.  Same with Morrigan's appearance again.

As far as I know, multipleyer has not been confirmed.  And if it is, they will be down one customer, at least.

But more importantly for this thread, People willl rage if their Wardens/Hawkes are brought back and they act ooc.  It would be a disrespect to the fan base so great that it's really not worth the trouble sticking one's hand into that fire for some maybe-bit of fan service.

People complain about NPCs changing across games, imagine what changint e player character would be like?