195 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Mr.House wrote...

Play TOR, do the Foundry flashpoint. There's your answer.

This

[DPSSOC]

cjones91 wrote...

Why do some people go into a fury if someone suggests the Warden/Hawke make a appearance in DA:I even if you don't see how they look?Is it because they can't separate themselves from their characters for just one moment and therefore they feel that in order to protect their head canon the Warden/Hawke should'nt appear at all?Personally I treat my Wardens and Female Mage Hawke as their own characters so if they made a appearance in DA:Inquistion I would'nt flip out about it like some people would.

1) Pointless cameos from NPC's are quite enough we don't need PC's making pointless cameos
2) Meaningful cameos are impossible without giving character to the PC's which breaks immersion because there is no way Bioware is going to come up with a characterization that matches even one player's Warden or Hawke (ok maybe Hawke) much less all of them.
3) It would be handled badly.
4) They would be ugly.
5) The whole, "vanished heros" thing is unnecessary.  The Warden's story was done, we had our fun in the game and DLCs and were given little details of their future with the rest for us to fill in as we pleased.  It was great, it was over, there was no need to mess with it.  Hawke could have had the same thing if they weren't set on this idea.  A nice game with a satisfying conclusion and just enough detail about their future that we can build an entire life around if we want.  My point is that having the Warden or Hawke be in Inquisiton is just more screwing around with things that don't need to be screwed around with.  This is the Star Wars Special Edition, and we're getting into Prequel territory.

[Savber100]

The real reason?

Mainly that no one will be satisfied or happy ultimately? Have too much of them and you risk many headcanons... Have too little and people complain how so-and-so character didn't have enough screentime.

Nobody wins. Not you. Not Bioware. Nobody.

Modifié par Savber100, 20 août 2013 - 02:34 .

[BlueMagitek]

Because you should only be handing the DM your character sheet when you install too much tech and it eats your essence away.

Come on guys, it isn't a hard thing to get. :/

[TheSaxPax]

 Personally, I'd rather they didn't play a huge role at all or not show up at all.

But if they did show up, I'd rather just see my Warden's body as a mutilated body or burnt body(that way the appearance of the Warden doesn't matter at all) in the Deep Roads surrounded by a good number of dead darkspawn with a codex saying the Warden had their calling and whatnot.

For Hawke, well...I'm pretty sure there were a few NPC's who wanted her and her sarcastic tendencies dead so just give me a body like they did Cailan's body in the DLC again with a codex and I'll be happy.

Modifié par Baby Paxx, 20 août 2013 - 02:49 .

[Iakus]

Baby Paxx wrote...

 Personally, I'd rather they didn't play a huge role at all or not show up at all.

But if they did show up, I'd rather just see my Warden's body as a mutilated body or burnt body(that way the appearance of the Warden doesn't matter at all) in the Deep Roads surrounded by a good number of dead darkspawn with a codex saying the Warden had their calling and whatnot.

For Hawke, well...I'm pretty sure there were a few NPC's who wanted her and her sarcastic tendencies dead so just give me a body like they did Cailan's body in the DLC again with a codex and I'll be happy.

And some of us would prefer to see the Warden and Hawke simply retire from the whole slaughtering things life and settle down.

This is where teh problems start:  everyone has a different idea how thier characters proceeded after the game ended.

[Joy Sauce]

1) It would be disorienting; they're 'my' characters and yet I won't be controlling them. I would either no longer identify with them or feel annoyed that they are acting without my input.

2) Facial imports will not work. Period. The transition between ME1-ME2-ME3 was NOT seemless, and in my opinion ME3 universally ruined all but default M!Shep, especially F!Sheps, and the ME games were all on the same engine. DAI will be on the new Frostbite 3 engine, do you really expect the faces to stay true to what we created in previous games? Not to mention the people on pc who used mods to alter their pc's appearance (myself included), the mods will definitely not import and would most likely cause glitches (baldness, invisible heads etc).

3) People's characters will no longer behave like their characters would. This is especially problematic for wardens as they are much more personalized characters (in people's minds at the very least). Not only do wardens have multiple voice sets for each race and gender, there is also the issue of their 'personality' because the warden says next to nothing out loud except occasionally commenting on traps, battle etc. and also lacks almost all facial expression. It has almost entirely been within people's imagination how their wardens behave, sound etc. and everyone has a different idea of what that is. So the warden would either show up and behave in such a way that would leave people asking "that was supposed to be my warden???" or they'd show up and not say or do anything or be killed or something else equally pointless which would also ****** people off to no end, so why include them at all.

4) It would ruin a lot of people's post-game headcanons. By having the Warden/Hawke simply disappear it keeps things fairly ambiguous, people can imagine whatever they want about them and whatever they might be doing post-game. If Bioware were to come out and say they're dead or they are off doing such and such or they have them appear, it would annoy a lot of people who had different ideas about what they're characters would be doing. Granted there would be a good number of people who would appreciate closure for they character, but whether or not they would be satisfied with said closure is another matter altogether.

[Sevec]

Hawke they could possibly do, which wouldn't bother me if done properly. He/she already has a voice and personality, so it could be done. However, I doubt that Bioware could do it without pissing off 90% of their fans.

So, let's just assume that they're somewhere else, enjoying the fact that they aren't in the middle of a big ol' ****storm for once. Or maybe Flemeth stole them and added them to her collection of famous heroes kept in magical, time-resistant bubbles. Or perhaps they were abducted by the Salarian STG for scientific research. They might have taken a ship to the other side of the world and discovered Amalur, or received an invitation from Sheogorath to visit his realm and eat cheese.

There's a million interesting places they could be that would be better than a lame cameo role.

Modifié par Sevec, 20 août 2013 - 03:36 .

[Jerrybnsn]

Aaleel wrote...

I absolutely hate MP, I just don't say anything about it because I just won't play it, no need to say anything else.  Doesn't mean I'm for it.

Ach!  I meant multi-races, not multiplayer. Sorry.  Have they confirmed the mp yet?

On topic I just don't see a need for the Warden or Hawke to return.  There were so many endings for the Warden, but somehow they're all going to lead back here.  No Warden's went on their calling, none would rather stay out of this?

Is a Mage Hawke going to act the same as a non mage Hawke.  Is a pro templar Hawke going to act the same as pro mage Hawke.

You would have to fit the Warden and Hawke into the story in a variety of ways based on past choices to make it come close to working.  Trust me Bioware will get taken to task if the funnel every Warden and every Hawke into a cookie cutter closure, and deservedly so.

Just let them be and use the resources elsewhere. 

In regards to the argument that the "variables" are too complicated to have Hawke and the Warden return. This article came out today, which seems to me to have been said before in regards to importing decisions with all those complicated variables.

"In the meantime, there is good news for fans who are heavily invested in their other Dragon Age characters. Your previous saves will be part of the new game and you can access them regardless of what platform you use, at least that's what producer Cameron Lee told the crowd at PAX Australia last month."--www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/19308/20130807/dragon-age-3-inquisition-release-date-news.htm

[Jerrybnsn]

Baby Paxx wrote...

 Personally, I'd rather they didn't play a huge role at all or not show up at all.

But if they did show up, I'd rather just see my Warden's body as a mutilated body or burnt body(that way the appearance of the Warden doesn't matter at all) in the Deep Roads surrounded by a good number of dead darkspawn with a codex saying the Warden had their calling and whatnot.

I would probably shut off the game right then and there and trade it into game stop, if that is how they plan on handling my choices for my warden.  I have one that was helping Morrigan raise their child and is suppose to be with her facing the future, and another that was helping Alistair rule Fereldan and in charge of the Fereldan Grey Wardens,...and then they are missing. 

However, I believe they won't do what you suggested up above.

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 août 2013 - 05:22 .

[Jerrybnsn]

These are all good points that I agree with.

Joy Sauce wrote...

1) It would be disorienting; they're 'my' characters and yet I won't be controlling them.

2) Facial imports will not work. Period.

3) People's characters will no longer behave like their characters would.

4) It would ruin a lot of people's post-game headcanons.

Sevec wrote....
(5) There's a million interesting places they could be that would be better than a lame cameo role..

And here is how they could handle those issues

1) Create a useful scene without the MPC to allow players to control the FPCs.  A scene like Morrigan in the Fade during Origins.

2) Allow for a character creator in the beginning to recreate their Hawke and Warden just the way they would like them.

3)  Create a useful scene without the MPC to allow players to control the FPCs.  A scene like Morrigan in the Fade during Origins.

4)  The in-game canon is that everybody's Warden and Hawke has disappear.  A lot of players like myself are on the edge of their seats wondering what is going to happen next.

5) Create a useful scene without the MPC to allow players to control the FPCs.  A scene like Morrigan in the Fade during Origins

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 août 2013 - 05:34 .

[Star fury]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh no I don't want to see my Warden/Hawke unless it's to say they're dead.

I got enough seeing my Revan completely derailed. Don't wanna go through that again.

Pretty much.

[Patchwork]

The amount of effort they'd have to put in to offend the least amount of fans seems like a lot of work for very little reward. If Hawke or the Warden have to be referenced at all, and I'm not convinced they do, I'd rather they go the KOTOR2 route and have us correct a NPC so anything further said about them is in line with how we headcanon their future/present.

[Remmirath]

cjones91 wrote...

Why do some people go into a fury if someone suggests the Warden/Hawke make a appearance in DA:I even if you don't see how they look?

If you don't see how they look or how they sound, how can you even tell for sure it's them? Yes, I suppose without seeing how they look (or more importantly, what they say or do) I'd be fine with it... but that's pretty pointless. If you could control those things, I'd also be fine with it, but that's quite unlikely.

Is it because they can't separate themselves from their characters for just one moment and therefore they feel that in order to protect their head canon the Warden/Hawke should'nt appear at all?

That's not quite the same thing, really. Seperating yourself from your character is more that you are making the choices the character would make and so forth, not that you don't make any choices at all. Just as I would be rather annoyed if a DM in a face to face game started playing my old characters if they showed up, I would be still annoyed by it in a computer game. Possibly more so, since at least the DM would have the advantage of knowing what that character had been played like before, whereas decision points are the only basis that a previous PC appearance in a new Dragon Age game would have to go on.

Personally I treat my Wardens and Female Mage Hawke as their own characters so if they made a appearance in DA:Inquistion I would'nt flip out about it like some people would.

Ah, so you treat them as other people's characters that you play for a while, which is another thing from simply treating them as their own characters. If you're making decisions in character rather than based only on what you want, then you're treating them as their own character, whether it's your character or not. This being a roleplaying game, many (most?) people make their own characters and play them accordingly.

I admit there would be less problems with Dragon Age II characters, since there's already that whole voice/personality thing, they could probably string together some things that would be believable for a good majority of players. Unless characters from Origins didn't speak at all, however, there'd already be a problem, and there was no such personality tracking from that game.

BlueMagitek wrote...

Because you should only be handing the DM your character sheet when you install too much tech and it eats your essence away.

Come on guys, it isn't a hard thing to get. :/

Seriously.

[DarthSliver]

I think an mention would be more likely than a cameo. I suspect we will learn about Hawke through Cassandra and Varric with our Warden being mention by Grey Wardens that we will obviously encounter in our travels as Inquisitor

[Eterna]

Because my Warden is my own character and there is no possible way Bioware will be able to write my warden with the characterization I've given her.

This isn't as big of an issue with Hawke, but even then my Hawke was personalized.

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...

...... and my warden is travelling, she said she would travel and both ending off da:o/a had her travelling and in da2 it was confirmed that she travelled.

I didn't know traveling wardens were still considering traveling at the end of DA2.  I assumed everyone received the warden is missing.  Who where you traveling with?

Considering Zev's romance was bugged, she was properly travelling alone.

But Alistair specificlly said she was coming by Fereldan for a visit, which hint she wasn't in Denerim before. (I know he has a different line if you either romanced him, or stayed in the warden, I think the last one is the one where he mentions a mission). As for the missing thing three years later, considering my warden killed Leliana, I always assumed that was why Leliana couldn't find her. It doesn't exactly make for the best reunion.

Both my warden and my Hawke would do their utmost to not be found by the Divine's left hand. My warden because she killed said left hand and generally just don't want anymore world saving trouble and my Hawke because her lover blew up a chantry and the whole burning anti-chantry approach she has.

[Jerrybnsn]

esper wrote...


But Alistair specificlly said she was coming by Fereldan for a visit, which hint she wasn't in Denerim before. (I know he has a different line if you either romanced him, or stayed in the warden, I think the last one is the one where he mentions a mission).

So in between the Alistair cameo and the Seekers mission is when the Warden disappears.  Which would match with disappearing in Wtich Hunt.

As for the missing thing three years later, considering my warden killed Leliana, I always assumed that was why Leliana couldn't find her. It doesn't exactly make for the best reunion.

Alterante storyline if Warden kills Leliana:

Leliana: Next time  you kill someone in the room of Andraste's Sacred Ashes, you should make sure she is completely dead before you leave.`

Skip to end of optional mission with Warden.

Leliana:  Thank you so much Warden for all your help.  Maker bless and keep you.  And you remember when I said this threat is bigger than you and me, that I don't begrudge you for what you felt you had to do,... and I have forgiven you?

Leliana moves in close.

Leliana: {whispers} I lied.

Murder Knife.

Leliana: Repose en Paix, Warden.
 Mwahahahaah

That's right.  You kill Leliana in Origins, she kills you in Inquisition. 

edit:  Should it be Murder knife than "I lied", or does the first one work better?

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 20 août 2013 - 05:02 .

[Shadow Fox]

Jerry it's been said multiple times the Warden's not coming back as either a pc or even an npc in 3.You have to accept it otherwise you'll be disappointed.

[Jerrybnsn]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Jerry it's been said multiple times the Warden's not coming back as either a pc or even an npc in 3.You have to accept it otherwise you'll be disappointed.

I did not know that.  Seriously, I haven't seen any confirmation that the Warden or Hawke were not going to be coming back.  I only check in here a few times a year when my interest gets peaked. 

My bad.  I guess I should stop talking about it.

[The Elder King]

Actually, there is no confirmation that the Warden and the Champion will not return as NPCs. Laidlaw last year hinted that they might return in the future, and Allan said (to Jerrybnsn, if I recall) to not get too hopeful about it, but he didn't deny the possibility.
It means that if they return they'll probably have only a cameo, but Bioware only stated that they'll not came back as PC.

[esper]

Jerrybnsn wrote...

esper wrote...


But Alistair specificlly said she was coming by Fereldan for a visit, which hint she wasn't in Denerim before. (I know he has a different line if you either romanced him, or stayed in the warden, I think the last one is the one where he mentions a mission).

So in between the Alistair cameo and the Seekers mission is when the Warden disappears.  Which would match with disappearing in Wtich Hunt.

As for the missing thing three years later, considering my warden killed Leliana, I always assumed that was why Leliana couldn't find her. It doesn't exactly make for the best reunion.

Alterante storyline if Warden kills Leliana:

Leliana: Next time  you kill someone in the room of Andraste's Sacred Ashes, you should make sure she is completely dead before you leave.`

Skip to end of optional mission with Warden.

Leliana:  Thank you so much Warden for all your help.  Maker bless and keep you.  And you remember when I said this threat is bigger than you and me, that I don't begrudge you for what you felt you had to do,... and I have forgiven you?

Leliana moves in close.

Leliana: {whispers} I lied.

Murder Knife.

Leliana: Repose en Paix, Warden.
 Mwahahahaah

That's right.  You kill Leliana in Origins, she kills you in Inquisition. 

edit:  Should it be Murder knife than "I lied", or does the first one work better?

(It should be murder knife and then I lied)

Hah, nah...
My warden would go upon seeing Leliala:
Grease, Fireball, Virtulent walking bomb. Cone of cold, stab wiht spellweaver.  Before Leliana even says something... after all she has amble reason to think her a zombie or possessed and my warden dislike trouble she doesn't makes herself.


That is generally my problem with my two characters, none off them are heroes enough to put the world before their own need. My warden is bitter over the whole taint thing and once darkspawn began talking she was basically all f*** it, I am going on a permenent vacation, and my Hawke would rather watch the world burn than she would give the templars and the chantry and inch.

[Jaison1986]

I'm the only one that thinks that people worry too much about headcanons? Remember, what goes through our heads and what happens in the game is different. Bioware haves their own writing of the series, and thus the story will continue according to what they write. So, it doesn't matter if their personal stories are over. If Bioware thinks they have relevance to the story, then the Warden and Hawke are likely to appear. To me, I just find it anticlimatic for these characters that have such an relevance to the story to be reduced to simple rumors and gossips.

[TheKomandorShepard]

If they will return i hope they won't destroy my character like they did in awakening when game forced me to kneel before alistair what was completly against my character personality my character was chaotic good he couldn't bow to anyone.

I hope they will not be shown but have important role and after game they give us their real fate in epilogue (not text what is lie) and i hope they are alive if you want warden dead just do US.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 août 2013 - 07:05 .

[esper]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I'm the only one that thinks that people worry too much about headcanons? Remember, what goes through our heads and what happens in the game is different. Bioware haves their own writing of the series, and thus the story will continue according to what they write. So, it doesn't matter if their personal stories are over. If Bioware thinks they have relevance to the story, then the Warden and Hawke are likely to appear. To me, I just find it anticlimatic for these characters that have such an relevance to the story to be reduced to simple rumors and gossips.

And again, if they don't act like my Hawke and Warden, then what is the point?

They are just some wannabes I have no connection to at all? I won't regonize them, and whatever happens can only bring apathy at best, if it doesn't just induce rage.

It is far, far better for bioware too keep the their words and let the story be about the world. We have already far to many returnees amongst the companions.