233 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Because a very significant number of Mass Effect players, including myself, do not consider such difficulty fun. The game becomes a chore. And we shouldn't have to do chores just to experience a story.

If you want the game to be harder, you can ramp the difficulty up. But you should never get a better story for it.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 11:04 .

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

Because a very significant number of Mass Effect players, including myself, do not consider such difficulty fun. The game becomes a chore. And we shouldn't have to do chores just to experience a story.

If you want the game to be harder, you can ramp the difficulty up. But you should never get a better story for it.

So it has nothing to do with the game being better off, you just want it easy? 

[David7204]

What the hell are you talking about?

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

This is a video game.

It's not an exam. It's not a chore. It's not a headache. It's not work.

It's a game. A product designed to be beatable with a minimum of frustration by a reasonably competent child.

A game.

It should never get to the point where the optimal way to play the game is to no longer have fun. And it sounds to me like that's what they're suggesting. A frustrating challenge where the majority of people are just going to reload until they get it right or give up in annoyence. So either way, nobody is having fun.

Is that good design to you?

For me a game isn't fun at all when it's easy to breeze through with my eyes shut. I enjoy a challenge. Do well at the challenge and things turn out well sounds very much like good design to me. Do badly and things go badly and it can really punch me in the gut far more than a film or book can, and that's great when a game is being used as a medium to tell a story because it has far more scope for emotional impact than a more passive medium ever could.

"A product designed to be beatable with a minimum of frustration by a reasonably competent child" sounds like a really boring, lightweight piece of fluff, even for a child (ME as a whole doesn't present enough of a challenge as it is). Of course the challenge needs to be well designed, not just throw large numbers of tough enemies at you to turn it into a chore. But if your idea of fun is just breezing through on story mode, well, why even bother playing a game? Just watch a film instead.

[David7204]

So set the difficulty higher. Problem solved. Believe it or not, difficult levels exist for almost all games for a reason.

You liking difficulty does not justify a very significant number of people getting locked out of a good story because their reflexes are not as good.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 11:24 .

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

So set the difficulty higher. Problem solved. Believe it or not, difficult levels exist for almost all games for a reason.

Difficulty should involve more than just how tough the enemies are to fight.

[David7204]

You liking difficulty does not justify a very significant number of people getting locked out of a good story because their reflexes are not as good.

Despite what you may think, plenty of people can and do enjoy video games on low difficulty levels. If they didn't, developers wouldn't bother with low and normal difficulty levels in the first place. Proclaiming that they 'should just go watch a film' because they don't enjoy games the way you enjoy them is, frankly, incredibly stupid.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 11:27 .

[PwnedDuck]

David7204 wrote...

You liking difficulty does not justify a very significant number of people getting locked out of a good story because their reflexes are not as good.

Despite what you may think, plenty of people can and do enjoy video games on low difficulty levels. If they didn't, developers wouldn't bother with low and normal difficulty levels in the first place. Proclaiming that they 'should just go watch a film' because they don't enjoy games the way you enjoy them is, frankly, incredibly stupid.

So put the difficulty on narrative already. I simply cannot concieve why you wouldn't just do that and allow the people who enjoy the game difficult to get their way and have difficulty affect more than health and damage. With narrative difficulty, eveything you could possibly want from not having to try has been satisfied, so why argue against the satifaction of others?

My personal take on the original topic of this discussion is that I would have loved to see Garrus die, but it should be as a result of player input in some way, like failing to protect Victus, so Garrus needs to do it, choosing between them like in Kasumi's mission, or insisting during the previous mission, seemingly all for good reasons, that you will do this alone, without Victus and his platoon risking themselves (i.e. agreeing with his men, instead of him)

[David7204]

Players should not be penalized for playing a game on a lower difficulty. If there's no penalty, then I wouldn't have a problem, so long as the challenge is well-designed. Which means that a challenge that tests the players' reflexes ought to be significantly easier on lower difficulty levels and be reasonably beatable for an average player the first time through for any difficulty.

I would very, very heavily frown on a squadmate getting killed because of twitchy combat instead of an actual choice or dialogue. But that's really another issue.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 11:45 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Necanor wrote...
Most Talimancers I know like the final Tali face, it's usually the non-Talimancers, that want a more alien face. Who in their right mind would want an ugly Tali.

Who in their right mind wants a lazily photoshoped Getty Image they could've done themselves.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 20 août 2013 - 01:01 .

[mumba]

So, the one thing I can draw from this thread is that David sucks at videogames.

[Liamv2]

How did a thread about garrus turn into an argument about game difficulty?

[The Night Mammoth]

Liamv2 wrote...

How did a thread about garrus turn into an argument about game difficulty?

David happened. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

Liamv2 wrote...

How did a thread about garrus turn into an argument about game difficulty?

Because the other thread were David was banging on about this got locked.

[Liamv2]

The magic of David.

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

If you want the game to be harder, you can ramp the difficulty up. But you should never get a better story for it.

And why not?

I actually miss the good old days when games gave you a secret ending or something nice for beating the game on the hardest difficulty, or doing a perfect playthrough. Those where the days when games were still actually GAMES, and not just interactive cinematic experiences like most games are right now (such as Mass Effect).

David7204 wrote...

I would very, very heavily frown on a squadmate getting killed because of twitchy combat instead of an actual choice or dialogue. But that's really another issue.

Why? I actually think games that do that (yes, they do exist) are better.

One of my favorite video-game series of all time is Fire Emblem, which is about an army of heroes and friends saving the world. It's a strategy game in which the player should strategically plan out his moves on the battlefield. You command the army of heroes and they listen to you.

When one of your heroes dies, he's death, for good. The hero will often get a burial and the other heroes will say goodbye to the fallen hero, and then they'll continue, with fewer numbers.

Did you like a particular hero and his particular story arc, but he died because of your own stupidity as the player? Though luck. He's gone now, you'll have to continue without him, or start a new game.

The tension and drama in Fire Emblem is unlike any other game. It's really really REALLY good.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 août 2013 - 02:45 .

[The Heretic of Time]

J. Reezy wrote...

If you're implying that Mass Effect is less of a game than say, Super Mario Bros, I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Not that I don't see what you're getting at with games moving into a more cinematic experience, which can somewhat take away from a more pure gameplay experience. I'd sooner call out Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain on the cinematic front than Mass Effect.

No, but I am implying Mass Effect is less of a game than say, the old Fallout, Arcanum or Planescape: Torment.


Heavy Rain is actually rather good, if you look at it from an interactive movie perspective. As a game it's rather terrible.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 août 2013 - 02:53 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Necanor wrote...
Most Talimancers I know like the final Tali face, it's usually the non-Talimancers, that want a more alien face. Who in their right mind would want an ugly Tali.

Who in their right mind wants a lazily photoshoped Getty Image they could've done themselves.

Like I said, the execution, the image we got was terrible. I'm talking about the concept for the face, of course I would've preferred a render model.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Necanor wrote...
Like I said, the execution, the image we got was terrible. I'm talking about the concept for the face, of course I would've preferred a render model.

I'm talking about concept too, there's very little creativity using purple humans with white lines, especially when we already have blue women.

[The Heretic of Time]

J. Reezy wrote...

I haven't had the pleasure of trying those out but I'm assuming you're talking about from a consequence standpoint?

Yeah, less railroading, more options, more choices and consequences, more gameplay and less cutscenes.

J. Reezy wrote...

And +9001 on bringing up the permanent unit death in one of my favorite series. Consequences from gameplay are awesome, as Fire Emblem definitely proves. 

Yeah I love it. When you lose a character because of your own fault it really hurts, especially because these characters are all likable heroes. When you lose a character, it really encourages you to try even harder next time so you won't lose any more of your friends.