233 réponses à ce sujet

[Fixers0]

J. Reezy wrote...

Shouldn't one of us have called the other "retarded and incapable of understanding the English language" by now? That's how these discussions work right?

Only when david starts participating.

[The Heretic of Time]

Who are you talking about J. Reezy? You're not making any sense son. You're talking retarded nonsense. Do you even understand the English language?

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 août 2013 - 03:14 .

[o Ventus]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No, but I am implying Mass Effect is less of a game than say, the old Fallout, Arcanum or Planescape.

Going by the dictionary definition of the word "game", this is objectively wrong. Discounting the fact that ME is a vastly different style of game than, say, the old Fallouts.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Whats this difficulty crap doing in my garrus thread?

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

Players should not be penalized for playing a game on a lower difficulty. If there's no penalty, then I wouldn't have a problem, so long as the challenge is well-designed. Which means that a challenge that tests the players' reflexes ought to be significantly easier on lower difficulty levels and be reasonably beatable for an average player the first time through for any difficulty.

I would very, very heavily frown on a squadmate getting killed because of twitchy combat instead of an actual choice or dialogue. But that's really another issue.

So you want to be able to "win" without actually having to be any good at it, no ability and still the reward. What a depressing, everything-handed-to-you-on-a-plate attitude. You appear to not want to have to earn your victories. I suppose by doing that at least they're considering their target audience, the rather pathetic modern society that's grown up expecting everything to be given to them and whinging when they have to work for it (and consequently have no real concept of achievement).

[Liamv2]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Whats this difficulty crap doing in my garrus thread?

The magic of david

[Liamv2]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Whats this difficulty crap doing in my garrus thread?

Garrus grows hard

This is currently the best thing on the internet.

[HiddenInWar]

I would cry

[The Heretic of Time]

o Ventus wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

No, but I am implying Mass Effect is less of a game than say, the old Fallout, Arcanum or Planescape.

Going by the dictionary definition of the word "game", this is objectively wrong. Discounting the fact that ME is a vastly different style of game than, say, the old Fallouts.

You knew what I was talking about. No need to be such an obnoxious wise-ass. ;

It's not even objectively wrong. Game = interaction between man and machine through game-mechanics, resulting in gameplay.

Mass Effect has less gameplay, and more cinematics instead, hence Mass Effect is, in my opinion, less of a game that the old Fallouts, which have vastly more gameplay and more game-mechanics.

Modifié par Heretic_Hanar, 20 août 2013 - 07:15 .

[someguy1231]

David7204 wrote...

This is a video game.

It's not an exam. It's not a chore. It's not a headache. It's not work.

It's a game. A product designed to be beatable with a minimum of frustration by a reasonably competent child.

A game.

People like you are why games are becoming more and more streamlined, dumbed-down, and unchallenging. A game with no challenge is not fun either.

Believe it or not, David, for some gamers, the difficulty is the fun. Why do you think Dark Souls came out of nowhere to win several GotY awards in 2011?

David7204 wrote...
It should never get to the point where the optimal way to play the game
is to no longer have fun. And it sounds to me like that's what they're
suggesting. A frustrating challenge where the majority of people are
just going to reload until they get it right or give up in annoyence. So
either way, nobody is having fun.

Is that good design to you?

Your idea of "fun" is not shared by most gamers. How do you explain the success of games like Dark Souls?

To answer your question, "good design" is one that rewards players who persevere. It goes a long way to making them feel like they've earned their victory. When I beat Dark souls the first time, I got more satisfaction than I had gotten form a game for a very long time.

[someguy1231]

David7204 wrote...

You liking difficulty does not justify a very significant number of people getting locked out of a good story because their reflexes are not as good.

Despite what you may think, plenty of people can and do enjoy video games on low difficulty levels. If they didn't, developers wouldn't bother with low and normal difficulty levels in the first place. Proclaiming that they 'should just go watch a film' because they don't enjoy games the way you enjoy them is, frankly, incredibly stupid.

Cry me a river for those people. Games are becoming more and more dumbed down lately, and sentiment like this is the reason why. I'm never going to apologize for loving challenging games that don't hold my hand. Players who have the "best reflexes", as you put it, deserve to be rewarded for their efforts, and yes, that includes the best story. I've played many games that have some exclusive cutscene at the end if they're beaten on the highest difficulty, only let you play the first half on the easiest difficulty. I'm firmly of the belief that gamers need to earn the right to get everything they want out of a game.

[The Night Mammoth]

someguy1231 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You liking difficulty does not justify a very significant number of people getting locked out of a good story because their reflexes are not as good.

Despite what you may think, plenty of people can and do enjoy video games on low difficulty levels. If they didn't, developers wouldn't bother with low and normal difficulty levels in the first place. Proclaiming that they 'should just go watch a film' because they don't enjoy games the way you enjoy them is, frankly, incredibly stupid.

Cry me a river for those people. Games are becoming more and more dumbed down lately, and sentiment like this is the reason why. I'm never going to apologize for loving challenging games that don't hold my hand. Players who have the "best reflexes", as you put it, deserve to be rewarded for their efforts, and yes, that includes the best story. I've played many games that have some exclusive cutscene at the end if they're beaten on the highest difficulty, only let you play the first half on the easiest difficulty. I'm firmly of the belief that gamers need to earn the right to get everything they want out of a game.

It's not even about reflexes, it's time and motivation. Unless it's a game like Ninja Gaiden where the devs clearly went out of their way to make the mechanics ad difficult to balance as possible, games are never usually physically taxing. 

I wouldn't really want all games to lock out heaps of content for the higher difficulties, but I don't see anything wrong with extra stuff for people who spend more time playing. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 20 août 2013 - 11:38 .

[DeinonSlayer]

And what if you didn't bring Garrus on that mission? What if Victus died without Garrus there, and Garrus dies in Victus' place if he is? That'd be kind of different.

[David7204]

Wow, we have some real pathetic arguments here.

Dark Souls is a product fills a niche market. People who buy it often do so specifically because of the challenge. And these delusions that Dark Souls is somehow a magnificent success that has taken the world by storm are laughable. Dark Souls has for the most part been quietly passed by.

Modifié par David7204, 21 août 2013 - 01:02 .

[David7204]

someguy1231 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You liking difficulty does not justify a very significant number of people getting locked out of a good story because their reflexes are not as good.

Despite what you may think, plenty of people can and do enjoy video games on low difficulty levels. If they didn't, developers wouldn't bother with low and normal difficulty levels in the first place. Proclaiming that they 'should just go watch a film' because they don't enjoy games the way you enjoy them is, frankly, incredibly stupid.

Cry me a river for those people. Games are becoming more and more dumbed down lately, and sentiment like this is the reason why. I'm never going to apologize for loving challenging games that don't hold my hand. Players who have the "best reflexes", as you put it, deserve to be rewarded for their efforts, and yes, that includes the best story. I've played many games that have some exclusive cutscene at the end if they're beaten on the highest difficulty, only let you play the first half on the easiest difficulty. I'm firmly of the belief that gamers need to earn the right to get everything they want out of a game.

Do you impress a lot of people at parties with that? How tough and manly and dedicated you are by beating games on the hardest level? How you 'earned' the 'right' to enjoying a game?

Modifié par David7204, 21 août 2013 - 01:02 .

[Ravensword]

David7204 wrote...

Wow, we have some real pathetic arguments here.

Dark Souls is a product fills a niche market. People who buy it often do so specifically because of the challenge. And these delusions that Dark Souls is somehow a magnificent success that has taken the world by storm are laughable. Dark Souls has for the most part been quietly passed by.

Ah, yes, b/c the quality of a product can be strictly determined by how many units it sells. The CoD series must be a real masterpiece in storytelling, heroism, and characterization.