947 réponses à ce sujet

[werewoof]

Morocco Mole wrote...

It's a public forum and a thread about romances. I am free to give my opinion provided it does not break the rules.

and i am free to think that its a little pointless to do so, so we come to a bit of an impasse there

[phantomrachie]

Azarhal wrote...

Also, I totally believe that BioWare makes the poorest romance in all the gaming industry. It's not one of their strong point.

I beg to differ there mainly because I can't think of another company that does romance in the same way as Bioware. Most games either have a scripted plot romance or a meaningless romance, were you just need to do a fetch quest and put on a necklace.
Bioware always the gamer a choice not only in whether or not to take part in a romance but in who you get to romance. They even carry over those choices from game to game.
Does Bioware always get it right? No(Anders comes to mind here) but they have created some memorable romances with multiple characters in each game.

Modifié par phantomrachie, 23 août 2013 - 02:14 .

[Renmiri1]

phantomrachie wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Also, I totally believe that BioWare makes the poorest romance in all the gaming industry. It's not one of their strong point.

I beg to differ there mainly because I can't think of another company that does romance in the same way as Bioware. Most games either have a scripted plot romance or a meaningless romance, were you just need to do a fetch quest and put on a necklace.
Bioware always the gamer a choice not only in whether or not to take part in a romance but in who you get to romance. They even carry over those choices from game to game.
Does Bioware always get it right? No(Anders comes to mind here) but they have created some memorable romances with multiple characters in each game.

Whoa, I never wrote that, someone replying to my praise of romance wrote it. Someone who doesn't like romances is not impressed with content they already said they hate ?  Big whoop.  

I think it all comes to bragging rights for this people. They can't carry a DAO / DA2 case around and say they are those bad arse serious gamers because you know - gasp! there's roamnce in it! ****** romance!!! And their buddies know about it!!!! Eeep make it stop mommy i want to impress  my friends and don't want anyone to know I play a game with ****** cooties! Waaaaaaah! 

[Beerfish]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Yes. But see, there are two types of fanservice. A good kind and a bad kind. The bad kind involves pointless titillation that adds nothing to the game. Like romances.

You simply lost the battle on this statement.  You call something you do not like fan service.  someone gives you a great example that most everything in games is fan servcie and then you change the parameters of your argument.

Like it or not the success of romances in BioWare games is one thing that has set them apart whether they have handled it perfectly or not and is also now an expected feature of the style of rpgs they often make.  There would be far more of a fan back lash at no romances in a game than the inclusion of them at this point.

[phantomrachie]

Renmiri1 wrote...

phantomrachie wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Also, I totally believe that BioWare makes the poorest romance in all the gaming industry. It's not one of their strong point.

I beg to differ there mainly because I can't think of another company that does romance in the same way as Bioware. Most games either have a scripted plot romance or a meaningless romance, were you just need to do a fetch quest and put on a necklace.
Bioware always the gamer a choice not only in whether or not to take part in a romance but in who you get to romance. They even carry over those choices from game to game.
Does Bioware always get it right? No(Anders comes to mind here) but they have created some memorable romances with multiple characters in each game.

Whoa, I never wrote that, someone replying to my praise of romance wrote it. Someone who doesn't like romances is not impressed with content they already said they hate ?  Big whoop.  

I think it all comes to bragging rights for this people. They can't carry a DAO / DA2 case around and say they are those bad arse serious gamers because you know - gasp! there's roamnce in it! ****** romance!!! And their buddies know about it!!!! Eeep make it stop mommy i want to impress  my friends and don't want anyone to know I play a game with ****** cooties! Waaaaaaah! 

Sorry about that it was Azarhal who wrote it – I accidently deleted the wrong part of the quote.I would blame gremlins but I pretty sure it was because I’m a dope 

I've fixed it now

I competely agree with you

Modifié par phantomrachie, 23 août 2013 - 02:14 .

[azarhal]

phantomrachie wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Also, I totally believe that BioWare makes the poorest romance in all the gaming industry. It's not one of their strong point.

I beg to differ there mainly because I can't think of another company that does romance in the same way as Bioware. Most games either have a scripted plot romance or a meaningless romance, were you just need to do a fetch quest and put on a necklace.
Bioware always the gamer a choice not only in whether or not to take part in a romance but in who you get to romance. They even carry over those choices from game to game.
Does Bioware always get it right? No(Anders comes to mind here) but they have created some memorable romances with multiple characters in each game.

I do not care about choices when it comes to romance, I want a good story, characters and dialogs. This is why I much prefer the heavy plot scriped romance personally. They resonate more with the characters and the story, which makes them more emotional to me. This is why I see Lair of the Shadow Broker as BioWare best work in this departement (the friendship path is amazing too might I add). Note that I find ME1 Liara romance bad and a pain to go through (so I use save editor now after experiencing it once for real).

Really, if BioWare dropped the "lets have choices", they could probably make an amazing friendship/romance companion (or two for both genders) that is well tied to the story and plot that I would find worth my time.  Right now I do romance because I got a complexionist complex, not because I like them.

[llandwynwyn]

As someone that doesn't care that much about romance, I think Bioware's are the best in the market.

[phantomrachie]

azarhal wrote...

phantomrachie wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Also, I totally believe that BioWare makes the poorest romance in all the gaming industry. It's not one of their strong point.

I beg to differ there mainly because I can't think of another company that does romance in the same way as Bioware. Most games either have a scripted plot romance or a meaningless romance, were you just need to do a fetch quest and put on a necklace.
Bioware always the gamer a choice not only in whether or not to take part in a romance but in who you get to romance. They even carry over those choices from game to game.
Does Bioware always get it right? No(Anders comes to mind here) but they have created some memorable romances with multiple characters in each game.

I do not care about choices when it comes to romance, I want a good story, characters and dialogs. This is why I much prefer the heavy plot scriped romance personally. They resonate more with the characters and the story, which makes them more emotional to me. This is why I see Lair of the Shadow Broker as BioWare best work in this departement (the friendship path is amazing too might I add). Note that I find ME1 Liara romance bad and a pain to go through (so I use save editor now after experiencing it once for real).

Really, if BioWare dropped the "lets have choices", they could probably make an amazing friendship/romance companion (or two for both genders) that is well tied to the story and plot that I would find worth my time.  Right now I do romance because I got a complexionist complex, not because I like them.

And that is fair enough – but BioWare is all about choice. For me personally I find it very difficult to think of a scripted romance that didn’t annoy or frustrate me at some point were as I can think of a number of BioWare romances that I really enjoyed, Liara, Morrigan and Isabela being the highlights for me

I don’t normally play a male character if I can help it but I rolled a male warden to romance Morrigan because I enjoyed her friendship path so much I wanted to see what the romance was like and it was totally worth it.

[Mello]

phantomrachie wrote...

azarhal wrote...

phantomrachie wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Also, I totally believe that BioWare makes the poorest romance in all the gaming industry. It's not one of their strong point.

I beg to differ there mainly because I can't think of another company that does romance in the same way as Bioware. Most games either have a scripted plot romance or a meaningless romance, were you just need to do a fetch quest and put on a necklace.
Bioware always the gamer a choice not only in whether or not to take part in a romance but in who you get to romance. They even carry over those choices from game to game.
Does Bioware always get it right? No(Anders comes to mind here) but they have created some memorable romances with multiple characters in each game.

I do not care about choices when it comes to romance, I want a good story, characters and dialogs. This is why I much prefer the heavy plot scriped romance personally. They resonate more with the characters and the story, which makes them more emotional to me. This is why I see Lair of the Shadow Broker as BioWare best work in this departement (the friendship path is amazing too might I add). Note that I find ME1 Liara romance bad and a pain to go through (so I use save editor now after experiencing it once for real).

Really, if BioWare dropped the "lets have choices", they could probably make an amazing friendship/romance companion (or two for both genders) that is well tied to the story and plot that I would find worth my time.  Right now I do romance because I got a complexionist complex, not because I like them.

And that is fair enough – but BioWare is all about choice. For me personally I find it very difficult to think of a scripted romance that didn’t annoy or frustrate me at some point were as I can think of a number of BioWare romances that I really enjoyed, Liara, Morrigan and Isabela being the highlights for me

I don’t normally play a male character if I can help it but I rolled a male warden to romance Morrigan because I enjoyed her friendship path so much I wanted to see what the romance was like and it was totally worth it.

Pretty much. Wow, I never expected to see people dislike having choices. But you're probably right azarhal, Bioware could make an amazing romance with only one companion for both genders. But let's look at an example; Uncharted. In the Uncharted series Drake get's in a relationship with Elena and Chole but in the end he ends up with Elena and the player cannot change that. Some people love Elena and don't mind her getting with Drake, some people just like Chole better and really wanted Drake to get with her, some people just disliked the fact that the romance were forced on the player. Bioware avoided this by giving us choices. Like phantomrachie said Bioware is all about choices and they're not going to change that because that's what Bioware is well known for. And I can see a bunch of video games following Bioware just look at Saints Row 4. You have two choices 1. don't romance anyone they're not forced on you, you're just forcing them on yourself. 2. Don't play Bioware games.

[werewoof]

not to mention given the video game industry's refusal to acknowledge anything other that hetero romance in the majority of products, the dragon age team's (and the me3 team at least, they kinda screwed the pooch on the first two as far as inclusiveness goes but thats another discussion) decision to include romance choice makes it possible to rp a character who's gay, bi, lesbian, even asexual if you want. imo that's like half the appeal right there. in a game where you can design your own character, it would be kinda bs if we could have choice in everything about them, their looks and personality and backstory, but not in who they might wanna hook up with.

[azarhal]

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

Pretty much. Wow, I never expected to see people dislike having choices. But you're probably right azarhal, Bioware could make an amazing romance with only one companion for both genders. But let's look at an example; Uncharted. In the Uncharted series Drake get's in a relationship with Elena and Chole but in the end he ends up with Elena and the player cannot change that. Some people love Elena and don't mind her getting with Drake, some people just like Chole better and really wanted Drake to get with her, some people just disliked the fact that the romance were forced on the player. Bioware avoided this by giving us choices. Like phantomrachie said Bioware is all about choices and they're not going to change that because that's what Bioware is well known for. And I can see a bunch of video games following Bioware just look at Saints Row 4. You have two choices 1. don't romance anyone they're not forced on you, you're just forcing them on yourself. 2. Don't play Bioware games.

Are they really avoiding it? How many people do you see in this very thread that are saying "if Cullen/Varric/Cassandra/etc isn't going to be romancable I'm going to be a sad panda" or even "threaten" to not buy the game? Answer: a lots.

How many people were pissed off that Anders very first line after you come back from his "recruiting" quest is pretty much "do you want to f*** me?" How many people complained about ninja romance in previous BioWare games? Answer: a lot.

BioWare choices doesn't solve the problem of players who want X, Y and Z to fit their fanfictions...

By the way, in other places of the web that I frequent. BioWare's choices are a subject of jokes and derisions (aka these people don't think Bioware is good at it).

[Caellis]

SilentK wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

ChocolateSauce wrote...

Bioware never confirmed that Cullen is going to be a companion. But, if they do actually put him as a companion, I could only assume he'd be romanceable.

I imagine the writers pit wouldn't need to be paid for months if they decided against making Cullen an LI though. Can you imagine all the fan tears? =)

Caellis wrote...

But if anyone is interested in getting to undesrtand Cullen more, not in the romantic way, you should see this http://houseofgriffi...oggable-by-this she explains things better than I ever will

I never really understood this fascination people had with Cullen. Guess I was too caught in the moment to properly enjoy lots of his dialogue (totally my fault and not the writers'). That post was great!

Cullen has a new fangirl as of today! 

That was a nice tmblr, thanks for posting it. And yes, I'm also hoping for Cullen as LI   <3

*descrete squealing* I'm glad I was able to change someone's mind

[werewoof]

azarhal wrote...

iPoohCupCakes wrote...

Pretty much. Wow, I never expected to see people dislike having choices. But you're probably right azarhal, Bioware could make an amazing romance with only one companion for both genders. But let's look at an example; Uncharted. In the Uncharted series Drake get's in a relationship with Elena and Chole but in the end he ends up with Elena and the player cannot change that. Some people love Elena and don't mind her getting with Drake, some people just like Chole better and really wanted Drake to get with her, some people just disliked the fact that the romance were forced on the player. Bioware avoided this by giving us choices. Like phantomrachie said Bioware is all about choices and they're not going to change that because that's what Bioware is well known for. And I can see a bunch of video games following Bioware just look at Saints Row 4. You have two choices 1. don't romance anyone they're not forced on you, you're just forcing them on yourself. 2. Don't play Bioware games.

Are they really avoiding it? How many people do you see in this very thread that are saying "if Cullen/Varric/Cassandra/etc isn't going to be romancable I'm going to be a sad panda" or even "threaten" to not buy the game? Answer: a lots.

How many people were pissed off that Anders very first line after you come back from his "recruiting" quest is pretty much "do you want to f*** me?" How many people complained about ninja romance in previous BioWare games? Answer: a lot.

BioWare choices doesn't solve the problem of players who want X, Y and Z to fit their fanfictions...

By the way, in other places of the web that I frequent. BioWare's choices are a subject of jokes and derisions (aka these people don't think Bioware is good at it).

so what is your point here, that bioware should just ditch choice altogether and pigeonhole you into one thing just because some people have a thing for certain characters? "well someone will just complain anyways so we wont do it at all nobody can have it ever" yeah thats gonna sell really well 

nobody is saying that bioware's romances are perfect but theyre clearly something that works for the company and that a lot of people enjoy 

but hold the presses everyone, theres some people out there who dont like the thing that most people like so we have to stop and remove it just for them even though they have the option not to do it 

because somehow it hurts them for it just to exist and somehow making one set romance is going to be an improvement

okay

Modifié par tiktac, 23 août 2013 - 04:57 .

[azarhal]

tiktac wrote...

so what is your point here, that bioware should just ditch choice
altogether and pigeonhole you into one thing just because some people
have a thing for certain characters? "well someone will just complain
anyways so we wont do it at all nobody can have it ever" yeah thats
gonna sell really well 

nobody is saying that bioware's romances
are perfect but theyre clearly something that works for the company and
that a lot of people enjoy 

but hold the presses everyone, theres
some people out there who dont like the thing that most people like so
we have to stop and remove it just for them even though they have the
option not to do it 

because somehow it hurts them for it just to exist and somehow making one set romance is going to be an improvement

okay

My point is that BioWare doesn't gain anything by making multiple shallow romances choices to please some fans vs making a deep optional one well integrated into the game story to make it more impactful.

For people who don't like romance, "not do it" doesn't mean anything. What they don't like is the ninja-mance*, the fanservice aspect, cringe worthy writting and half the companions courting them for being nice to them. Having multiple choices just mean you get more of that. Having a deep meaningful romance mean that you remove the fanservice aspect, most of the cringe worthy writing and get less companion courting you. Ninja-mance was delt with in DA2 with the heart icon.

The people who like romance get less choices, but they still get to romance somebody if they want and probably get a more meaningful experience out of it. Because BioWare can't make 100s romance to please everyone, that there is only one or two doesn't seems that much different then there being 4+ of them in the end.

Looks like a win-win for me...

[RedWulfi]

I would like to actually know the character's story o.- unlike in DA2. Take Anders for example. Yeah he told you about Justice but he never tells you HOW it came to be. He never mentions his time with Warden or what he did. Yeah he says bits here and there but nothing detailed. In DA:O the companions would go into great detail about their pasts and would tell you everything when you get the right reputation with them. You could ask them about specific things that happened in their life.

"Hey I just met you, let's make out."

[wright1978]

There's a tradeoff in number of romances versus depth of content. Personally i think the current approach(evidenced in DA2) where there is some level of choice & some level of depth is the right way for a choice based RPG. Nothing would annoy me more than having a single scripted romance, whereas the current approach allows the player some choice to gravitate towards the LI they find fitting for character they are roleplaying.

[Ianamus]

AndersIsLush wrote...

I would like to actually know the character's story o.- unlike in DA2. Take Anders for example. Yeah he told you about Justice but he never tells you HOW it came to be. He never mentions his time with Warden or what he did. Yeah he says bits here and there but nothing detailed. In DA:O the companions would go into great detail about their pasts and would tell you everything when you get the right reputation with them. You could ask them about specific things that happened in their life.

"Hey I just met you, let's make out."

It wasn't really "Hey I just met you, let's make out" because while we were still relatively new to the characters as the player Hawke had known them for 2 years by that point. 

The real problem was that while they presumably told Hawke all of this information during the gaps the player had no idea. The companions said that they really liked Hawke and had got to know him personally, but as the player I didn't want to be told that my Hawke and their LI had got to know each other over the years, I wanted to see it. 

It was the same with Bethany/Carvers death at the beginning. We were told how sad Hawke was because of how close he and his siblings were, but we only saw them interact for about ten minutes before the death, so the player doesn't really care. 

It's why I disliked the time skips. I want to be shown each stage of a characters developing relationship with the PC, be it a friendship, rivalry, hatred or romance. What I did not want was a brief overview of what happened while I wasn't there.

Modifié par EJ107, 23 août 2013 - 06:42 .

[Tarek]

when will they show us the males face pics I don't want to be disappointed and if so I would like this to be done now rather than later

[werewoof]

azarhal wrote...

tiktac wrote...

so what is your point here, that bioware should just ditch choice
altogether and pigeonhole you into one thing just because some people
have a thing for certain characters? "well someone will just complain
anyways so we wont do it at all nobody can have it ever" yeah thats
gonna sell really well 

nobody is saying that bioware's romances
are perfect but theyre clearly something that works for the company and
that a lot of people enjoy 

but hold the presses everyone, theres
some people out there who dont like the thing that most people like so
we have to stop and remove it just for them even though they have the
option not to do it 

because somehow it hurts them for it just to exist and somehow making one set romance is going to be an improvement

okay

My point is that BioWare doesn't gain anything by making multiple shallow romances choices to please some fans vs making a deep optional one well integrated into the game story to make it more impactful.

For people who don't like romance, "not do it" doesn't mean anything. What they don't like is the ninja-mance*, the fanservice aspect, cringe worthy writting and half the companions courting them for being nice to them. Having multiple choices just mean you get more of that. Having a deep meaningful romance mean that you remove the fanservice aspect, most of the cringe worthy writing and get less companion courting you. Ninja-mance was delt with in DA2 with the heart icon.

The people who like romance get less choices, but they still get to romance somebody if they want and probably get a more meaningful experience out of it. Because BioWare can't make 100s romance to please everyone, that there is only one or two doesn't seems that much different then there being 4+ of them in the end.

Looks like a win-win for me...

but what youre getting at is that basically, because you (and if looking at the fanbase is any indication, youre in the minority) dont like it, they should just ditch it entirely and swap it out for one singular one. which, apart from being kind of a kick in the face for everyone who plays dragon age because of the same gender romance options (im pretty sure if they had to limit it to one, itd be straight), means that all it does is please the little group that thinks romance is icky grossy fanservice and tell everyone else "well gee i hope you like this one character a whole damn lot" 

its not like those of us who like it just want someone, anyone to romance, we generally like one or two particular characters themselves and thats what makes dragon age romance have an appeal over something like what you get in uncharted. you might have found all the romances so far shallow, but a whole lot of people didnt and if it bugs you that much, maybe dragon age just aint the game for you.

so far all youve been able to assert is that some people dont like romance, so for their benefit, it should be removed or reduced, which makes zero sense. if you dont like it, dont play it. you say that means nothing, but then you cite ninja-mancing as the reason it means nothing, which is...gone. why keep bringing that dead horse up? and to my knowledge, in da2, only one or two characters actually flirt with you if you dont hit the giant obvious "this is the romance path" button so again, your point is kind of lost. 

Modifié par tiktac, 23 août 2013 - 07:59 .

[Tinxa]

I think people who get ninja-manced just click through conversations without reading (or can't read) and then blame Bioware for it. People managed to get "ninja-manced" by Zevran with whom you have to confirm TWICE that you want something more. It's not Bioware's fault if someones reading comprehension is bad .

[esper]

Tinxa wrote...

I think people who get ninja-manced just click through conversations without reading (or can't read) and then blame Bioware for it. People managed to get "ninja-manced" by Zevran with whom you have to confirm TWICE that you want something more. It's not Bioware's fault if someones reading comprehension is bad .

I do honestly think Leliana has a bug, else there is no logical reason for her going from "You and Zevran seems to be having fun" to "You promised me that you would break up with him." without any kind of warning.  (Unless she is crazy.)

[Angrywolves]

There are a lot of conversation bugs in DAO.
The DA wiki mentions some of them.
I never kill Zevran. He's a useful fighter in the game and you never know what effects the imports will have.

[Cheese Time]

Bioware should never stop doing romances! For some people (perhaps I'm one of them) they really make the game if you can get emotionally involved in them.

The Mass Effect series did the romance perfectly in my opinion. I couldn't have asked for anything better. Every time I chanced across a romance scene, my fangirl instincts kicked in and I got excited! Mass Effect moderated when and where you could continue the romance, wheras in DAO, you could just keep clicking on your LI over and over (Zev is the example of this) and watch about 20 minutes of scenes all at once.

The romances are a way for you to become even more emotionally attached to a character. Bioware wants us to care about the characters around us. Their games are based on story, and how can we enjoy the story if we don't care about the protagonists?

Plus they allow for gratuitous sex! Everybody wins!