1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

For what purpose?

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

For what purpose?

Godhood. My ideas for the game had this particular archon (whom you'd eventually have to travel to Tevinter to replace) be a pioneer in certain esoteric fields of magic that would eventually go into the life force of the earth itself and how it might relate to the power in blood. Red lyrium would be reused as a plot point and have more detail laid onto it.

[Dave of Canada]

Xilizhra wrote...

I think Lambert's dead

I'll repeat this until it's confirmed he's flat-out dead; I'd love to see him in a vegetative state where only magic can save him, the situation would be deliciously ironic.

and equivocating him with Fiona is a false equivalence.

They're both radical extremists who care very little about Justinia, their opposing views don't change this.

You're looking for someone on the level of, say, Danarius.

Polar opposites.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

For what purpose?

Godhood. My ideas for the game had this particular archon (whom you'd eventually have to travel to Tevinter to replace) be a pioneer in certain esoteric fields of magic that would eventually go into the life force of the earth itself and how it might relate to the power in blood. Red lyrium would be reused as a plot point and have more detail laid onto it.

And you were so close to being reasonable, some tgings were not meant to be I suppose

[Xilizhra]

They're both radical extremists who care very little about Justinia, their opposing views don't change this.

I consider Fiona a moderate liberal.

Polar opposites.

Well, yes, that's kind of the point.

And you were so close to being reasonable, some tgings were not meant to be I suppose

Oh, you'd have a final templar boss as well, as the second-to-last one. I didn't think the templars would be enough to carry the whole game (although they've got some crazy ****, such as myrmidons: Tranquil mages turned into armored ogre-esque monstrosities via infusions of red lyrium), so I added a Tevinter plotline. But don't worry; Tevinter itself winds up disowning the guy.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 août 2013 - 03:16 .

[Steelcan]

Only for you to jump in and become a god yourself?

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Only for you to jump in and become a god yourself?

No, that'd make import states tricky.

[cjones91]

Steelcan wrote...

Only for you to jump in and become a god yourself?

Eh....even my more morally gray characters would jump at the chance of becoming a god.

[Steelcan]

Godhood would be pretty awesome. If only for the ability to subtly mess with the world.

[DPSSOC]

Apologies in advance for long post, playing catch up

Xilizhra wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
I don't see how the Templars behaviour changes things for the mages in this regard.  No matter how bad the Templars get it's not going to change the public perception of mages.  If mages continue on as they have in the past 2 games they are not going to win anyone over.  Now I haven't read the books so maybe there are more mages portrayed as more personable, compassionate, or even just considerate.  Not to mention Anders set up a pretty big hurdle, cause now any mage who seems genuinely decent and helpful might just be another monster biding their time.

In short: Anders was glossed over by history and the actual war was kicked off by templars attacking a meeting of Enchanters in Orlais. But to know more, we really have to see DAI.

What's your point?  At best Anders little stunt is forgotten (unlikely but possible) and the mages don't have a harder time winning people over; they still have the problem of the current perception of mages.  Nothing the Templars do is going to change anything except how the public feels about the Templars, them being bastards isn't going to make people warm up to the mages any more than your dog going rabid makes you more amicable to the hungry wolf outside your door.  The mages have to actually do something to win people over.

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Because they don't gain anything by proving them right.  If I've got a reputation and people treat me like a brutish thug I do not improve my lot by acting like a brutish thug.  The mages greatest fight, and one they are going to lose based on most of their attitudes and actions, is one of hearts and minds.  If they don't rise above people's expectations of them they will only breed more resentment, hatred, and fear and the whole thing starts over again.

That's exactly why Martin Luthor King argued for peaceful protest as opposed to fullblown rioting over segregation.

That's why anybody attempts peaceful protest, because it might not be quick but it actually gets you somewhere.  If you genuinely want to make the world a better place for more than just you in the short term violence serves nothing.

Xilizhra wrote...

Palidane wrote...
And what if that national government decides the best way to safeguard their streets is to lock up every mage in a Circle of some kind?

You can't say that you support mage freedom, but then shrug when we bring up the problems with it.

That is not their jurisdiction; they're only permitted to imprison mages who actually commit crimes.

A national government's jurisdiction ends at their borders.  If my country wants to make having blue eyes a
 crime that is well within their rights and they are well within their jurisdiction to arrest anyone with blue eyes who comes into their country.  If a country makes it illegal for mages to walk around unsupervised any unsupervised mage in their country has committed a crime, whether or not you feel the Circle has super special jurisdiction where their laws apply wherever they go but no one else's apply to them unless they feel like it.

Star fury wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Cerberus was always the same, just hiding its face from you. If the templars turn out to be the same, as seems likely... oh, 'twill be delicious. Also, you'll never succeed in your plan; the mage class will always be open to players.

People just didn't play ME1 and they think that Cerberus from ME2 was the true one. They apparently don't know about admiral Kahoku, experiments on rachni and thresher maws etc. 

I played ME1 and the portrayal of Cerberus was the same in both.  We saw a different side in ME2 but they were both the same organization behaving the same way, an independent black ops organization willing to do anything in the pursuit of defending humanity.  ME1 showed us that organization from the outside and ME2 showed us from the inside, what it's like to work for a group like that.  ME3 turned them into mustache twirling villains with seemingly bottomless personnel and resources to draw on.  Really hope this doesn't happen to either side in DA:I.

Bioware, if you're reading this, please give us complex antagonists, I swear we can take it.

JackumsD wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
The universe is an uncaring and cold place, there is no God, 1% of the population hold 99% of the wealth, love is only lust combined with reproduction instincts and if someone does something good it's only because part of our brains release a chemical when it happens that makes us feel good.
Basically, life is hard. Doesn't mean we should kill people when it becomes convenient.

By your own logic, there is no objective right or wrong, and therefore your arguments against the mages based on their "crimes" and potential to cause bloodshed are rendered weightless. Similarly, so are arguments against the Templars. The acts of both factions are neither right nor wrong. They simply are. As such, I'd be totally justified in supporting mage supremacy based on the fact that they are superior to the mundanes, and you'd only be able to disagree based on personal preference for the Templars.

In fact, I agree completely with this philosophy.

Except they're really not.  I mean think about it, the mages had their hay day a long time ago and ever since a bunch of mundanes booted them out of half the continent the last great mage empire has been on the decline.  On top of the mundanes have been able to keep a lid on mages for almost 1 thousand years and that system only failed because a number of people took large quantities of stupid.

[cjones91]

Steelcan wrote...

Godhood would be pretty awesome. If only for the ability to subtly mess with the world.

My character would be too busy enjoying her powers of being a hot goddess with magic on her side.

[cjones91]

[quote]DPSSOC wrote...

Apologies in advance for long post, playing catch up

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
[quote]DPSSOC wrote...
I don't see how the Templars behaviour changes things for the mages in this regard.  No matter how bad the Templars get it's not going to change the public perception of mages.  If mages continue on as they have in the past 2 games they are not going to win anyone over.  Now I haven't read the books so maybe there are more mages portrayed as more personable, compassionate, or even just considerate.  Not to mention Anders set up a pretty big hurdle, cause now any mage who seems genuinely decent and helpful might just be another monster biding their time.
[/quote]
In short: Anders was glossed over by history and the actual war was kicked off by templars attacking a meeting of Enchanters in Orlais. But to know more, we really have to see DAI.
[/quote]

What's your point?  At best Anders little stunt is forgotten (unlikely but possible) and the mages don't have a harder time winning people over; they still have the problem of the current perception of mages.  Nothing the Templars do is going to change anything except how the public feels about the Templars, them being bastards isn't going to make people warm up to the mages any more than your dog going rabid makes you more amicable to the hungry wolf outside your door.  The mages have to actually do something to win people over.

[quote]Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
[quote]DPSSOC wrote...
Because they don't gain anything by proving them right.  If I've got a reputation and people treat me like a brutish thug I do not improve my lot by acting like a brutish thug.  The mages greatest fight, and one they are going to lose based on most of their attitudes and actions, is one of hearts and minds.  If they don't rise above people's expectations of them they will only breed more resentment, hatred, and fear and the whole thing starts over again.[/quote]That's exactly why Martin Luthor King argued for peaceful protest as opposed to fullblown rioting over segregation.
[/quote]

That's why anybody attempts peaceful protest, because it might not be quick but it actually gets you somewhere.  If you genuinely want to make the world a better place for more than just you in the short term violence serves nothing.

[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
[quote]Palidane wrote...
And what if that national government decides the best way to safeguard their streets is to lock up every mage in a Circle of some kind?

You can't say that you support mage freedom, but then shrug when we bring up the problems with it.[/quote]
That is not their jurisdiction; they're only permitted to imprison mages who actually commit crimes.
[/quote]

A national government's jurisdiction ends at their borders.  If my country wants to make having blue eyes a
 crime that is well within their rights and they are well within their jurisdiction to arrest anyone with blue eyes who comes into their country.  If a country makes it illegal for mages to walk around unsupervised any unsupervised mage in their country has committed a crime, whether or not you feel the Circle has super special jurisdiction where their laws apply wherever they go but no one else's apply to them unless they feel like it.

[quote]Star fury wrote...
[quote]Xilizhra wrote...
Cerberus was always the same, just hiding its face from you. If the templars turn out to be the same, as seems likely... oh, 'twill be delicious. Also, you'll never succeed in your plan; the mage class will always be open to players.
[/quote]

People just didn't play ME1 and they think that Cerberus from ME2 was the true one. They apparently don't know about admiral Kahoku, experiments on rachni and thresher maws etc. [/quote]

I played ME1 and the portrayal of Cerberus was the same in both.  We saw a different side in ME2 but they were both the same organization behaving the same way, an independent black ops organization willing to do anything in the pursuit of defending humanity.  ME1 showed us that organization from the outside and ME2 showed us from the inside, what it's like to work for a group like that.  ME3 turned them into mustache twirling villains with seemingly bottomless personnel and resources to draw on.  Really hope this doesn't happen to either side in DA:I.

Bioware, if you're reading this, please give us complex antagonists, I swear we can take it.

[quote]JackumsD wrote...
[quote]MisterJB wrote...
The universe is an uncaring and cold place, there is no God, 1% of the population hold 99% of the wealth, love is only lust combined with reproduction instincts and if someone does something good it's only because part of our brains release a chemical when it happens that makes us feel good.
Basically, life is hard. Doesn't mean we should kill people when it becomes convenient.
[/quote]
By your own logic, there is no objective right or wrong, and therefore your arguments against the mages based on their "crimes" and potential to cause bloodshed are rendered weightless. Similarly, so are arguments against the Templars. The acts of both factions are neither right nor wrong. They simply are. As such, I'd be totally justified in supporting mage supremacy based on the fact that they are superior to the mundanes, and you'd only be able to disagree based on personal preference for the Templars.

In fact, I agree completely with this philosophy.

[/quote]

Except they're really not.  I mean think about it, the mages had their hay day a long time ago and ever since a bunch of mundanes booted them out of half the continent the last great mage empire has been on the decline.  On top of the mundanes have been able to keep a lid on mages for almost 1 thousand years and that system only failed because a number of people took large quantities of stupid.[/quote]Since more mages are being born than ever before I'd say the pendulum will swing back towards mundanes being put in check by mages and to be honest I will like to see the opressors being opressed for once.

[DPSSOC]

I think if I attained Godhood in the DA universe the first thing I'd do is strip the world of magic. If you can't play nice I'll take your toys away.

[Xilizhra]

What's your point? At best Anders little stunt is forgotten (unlikely but possible) and the mages don't have a harder time winning people over; they still have the problem of the current perception of mages. Nothing the Templars do is going to change anything except how the public feels about the Templars, them being bastards isn't going to make people warm up to the mages any more than your dog going rabid makes you more amicable to the hungry wolf outside your door. The mages have to actually do something to win people over.

Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.

I played ME1 and the portrayal of Cerberus was the same in both. We saw a different side in ME2 but they were both the same organization behaving the same way, an independent black ops organization willing to do anything in the pursuit of defending humanity. ME1 showed us that organization from the outside and ME2 showed us from the inside, what it's like to work for a group like that. ME3 turned them into mustache twirling villains with seemingly bottomless personnel and resources to draw on. Really hope this doesn't happen to either side in DA:I.

ME3 changed nothing, except for their ability to kidnap and indoctrinate people to create a bunch of assault troopers. The character of the organization never changed, we were just on the outside again.

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

I think if I attained Godhood in the DA universe the first thing I'd do is strip the world of magic. If you can't play nice I'll take your toys away.

But...how will people be able to oppose you if you decide to go crazy?

[Solmanian]

Steelcan wrote...

Bah!  I want to blow up the Grand Cathedral in Val Royeaux.

With a nice Anders shaped icon to trigger it.

Yes, I'm sure the last telant in the mage skill tree is "anders style": costs all your mana to instantly detonate the nearest religious building.

[Ausstig]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I underlined what Meredith did.

She lead the group that captured the Viscount. She is the Hero who Overthrew the Tryant.

Elthina only entered in after that. Just because she presided over the trial does not mean she could have made Meredith stand down.

1. Elthina was still involved with his being deposed, having oversaw the trial. That was my only point, and it stands to show that Elthina is involved in politics to a lesser degree. I never said Elthina ordered it, merely that she was involved.

2. And if you could please tell me, why on earth couldn't the Grand Cleric get the Knight-Commander dismissed when it was the Grand Cleric who presides over the templars in the area to begin with? Unless you're talking about how Meredith gained too much political power then Elthina could've called in the Seekers.

2. They can make their own deals, it also depends how large their current stockpiles are nd what suppourt they can get from lords and the common people. They the Templars as protectors, not mages, Kirkwall (where the nobles did not like their power being threatened) was an exception.

3. Templars are protectors? Really? They were inducted into the Chantry when they were the original inquisition, and then used by Drakon to Exalted March all his neighboring city-states to build up Orlais (History of the Chantry: Ch. 4) The Chantry then used the templars to exalted march several times for reasons not involved with defending. Heck, as a result of the Llmarron Accords being violated by Rivaini Qunari who refused to leave the land of their birth, an exalted march was called and so many were slaughtered that it sundered the veil....and then they denied doing it. The Divine nearly called an Exalted March on her own Cathedral before the Circles were even organized because the mages there were staging a peaceful protest. 4. 

Alistair says the Chantry claims the templars exist to defend, but that's not true, they're an army. And I believe him having looked at the Chantry's role in major wars throughout the codex entries.

5. The templars need a source of income, a way to sustain themselves, food and supplies, they need to maintain arms and armor, all the while dealing with their lyrium addiction. Historically, whenever you have a rogue army you pretty much had a large organized band of raiders. The fact that the templar codex says the largely recruit from the religiously zealous over those with integrity to keep them from questioning their orders....and you have the perfect recipe for an army of religious terrorists who truly believe they are in the right. Whether or not Inquisition follows that is another matter entirely, and I'm willing to play the game and find out if I'm right or wrong, but the probability of the templars now being raiders are very high.

3. The Divine did send a seeker, who was then attacked by blood mages, and you can ask for a Chantry army to restor order.

If you're referring to Leliana, that's kind of a mixed bag. Many people took it that Leliana is anti-mage despite the fact that she may have been romanced by one in Origins, some took it as her being incompetent. As for me, I saw that Leliana only gave Hawke, and thus the players, only the most basic of information regarding the task at hand, and not one iota more than that. It may have made her look incompetent, but the devs alluded that she was doing more than that, but weren't specific, so it's kind of hard to discuss this point in any real detail.

I can't say if Leliana was investigating Meredith, and the chantry exploded before action could be taken, or if she made up her mind before even arriving, and ignored the blatant abuse of political power.

On a side note: Gaider has said that (moving away from Elthina here) while Meredith now had the most barebone technicalities that allowed her to declare a rite of annulment, it wasn't justified in the eyes of the chantry, or the divine.

4. There was the chance of peaceful resolution, remember at this point, no one knew of Orsion's corruption, Meredith only had her hunch, which was right by the way.

7. *shrug* Let's commit genocide over hunches then. That'll fly with those in charge.

I won't discuss Orsino, not because I agree or disagree with you, but because that ending was so badly written that I simply can't take it seriously one way or another. It's canon, but it's stupid.

Nah, I'm not turning this into a mage/templar thread, but rather I'm trying to focus strictly on the Chantry's structure and whether or not the obvious corruption in the templars in Kirkwall are justification for Elthina or the Seekers to act against Meredith, and I believe that's the case.

I also assume the Krikwall is an unsual situation due to the vale being so weak, maybe the KC gets more room, then in other less corrupt circles.

8. Or maybe Meredith got more room because she had so much political power that she shouldn't of had in the first place. She is called the power in Kirkwall before Hawke even enters the city, and a guard openly says he doesn't know what will happen if Dumar doesn't do what Meredith wants.

1. So what if she was involved? Of course she was involved, she was seen as impartial and a netural party, who else would be in charge of the trial?

2. How do would that happen? What is the means by which a Knight-Commander is removed from power?   

3. What? The common people view them as protectors, becuase that is their major role, they protect people from Mages. They do fight in the Exalted Marches, but the Exalted Marches are mostly made up of the armies of nations, just like the Cursades in Our world. The Templars my be the Vanguard, but they are defending the Chantry. 

4. Also just a point, it was the Templars who said no to attacking the Mages, so I don't see your point. Also the Templars are an armed force, not the same as an army. Their main job is to protect people from mages. 

5.  They will do as other monastic orders have done. They will get by on donations and recuritment, look at the REAL Knights Templar, or the Hospitlars. The Tutonic Knights took land and founded a nation. Also the Templars took the circles with them, as in the buildings annd stock piles that are there. So the supplie situation is not as bad as you make out. 

6. (bold) So? She is working for a secret organisation, they don't give out all the infom they only tell outsiders (which Hawk is) what they need to know. That's right you can't say, all you can do is speculate. SPECULATIONS FOR EVERYONE, ah hm, any way. 

7. I never said Genocide (which is also the wrong term for the right of annulment), I ment  Meredith wanted to search the rooms, on the hunch that there were blood mages and sympathises, which there were. Orsino was also in contact with that crazy necrmancer. So you will not dicuss when the mage leader goes nuts but who are very egar to dicuss when it happens to the KC? This is a Mage V Templar thead, others have seen to that.

8. She ends up in a position very similar to the Warden Commander at the end of DA:O. So would you say that the WC shouldn't have had that power? Also her power comes from the fact she controls the largest armed force in the city, even the last tryant had lost when he went up against them. 

[DPSSOC]

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Except they're really not.  I mean think about it, the mages had their hay day a long time ago and ever since a bunch of mundanes booted them out of half the continent the last great mage empire has been on the decline.  On top of the mundanes have been able to keep a lid on mages for almost 1 thousand years and that system only failed because a number of people took large quantities of stupid.

Since more mages are being born than ever before I'd say the pendulum will swing back towards mundanes being put in check by mages and to be honest I will like to see the opressors being opressed for once.

That's kinda what started the whole Circle thing.  Mundanes, oppressed by mages for 1-3 millennia, rose up and proceeded to oppress mages.  Now you hope the mages, oppressed by mundanes for 900+ years, will rise up to oppress mundanes.  Round and round and round it goes and am I the only one who really hopes somebody in game advocates ending the cycle of oppression and retaliation?  Cause I've got to tell you, if I'm the guy saying we need to calm down and stop the violence, things have gone way too far.

[cjones91]

Solmanian wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Bah!  I want to blow up the Grand Cathedral in Val Royeaux.

With a nice Anders shaped icon to trigger it.

Yes, I'm sure the last telant in the mage skill tree is "anders style": costs all your mana to instantly detonate the nearest religious building.

Can I blow up something else instead?I want to blow up the jerks of both factions.

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Except they're really not.  I mean think about it, the mages had their hay day a long time ago and ever since a bunch of mundanes booted them out of half the continent the last great mage empire has been on the decline.  On top of the mundanes have been able to keep a lid on mages for almost 1 thousand years and that system only failed because a number of people took large quantities of stupid.

Since more mages are being born than ever before I'd say the pendulum will swing back towards mundanes being put in check by mages and to be honest I will like to see the opressors being opressed for once.

That's kinda what started the whole Circle thing.  Mundanes, oppressed by mages for 1-3 millennia, rose up and proceeded to oppress mages.  Now you hope the mages, oppressed by mundanes for 900+ years, will rise up to oppress mundanes.  Round and round and round it goes and am I the only one who really hopes somebody in game advocates ending the cycle of oppression and retaliation?  Cause I've got to tell you, if I'm the guy saying we need to calm down and stop the violence, things have gone way too far.

I will advocate for peace however if the people of Thedas does'nt change the way they view mages then it's out of my hands and survival of the fittest will see who's right.

[Xilizhra]

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Except they're really not.  I mean think about it, the mages had their hay day a long time ago and ever since a bunch of mundanes booted them out of half the continent the last great mage empire has been on the decline.  On top of the mundanes have been able to keep a lid on mages for almost 1 thousand years and that system only failed because a number of people took large quantities of stupid.

Since more mages are being born than ever before I'd say the pendulum will swing back towards mundanes being put in check by mages and to be honest I will like to see the opressors being opressed for once.

That's kinda what started the whole Circle thing.  Mundanes, oppressed by mages for 1-3 millennia, rose up and proceeded to oppress mages.  Now you hope the mages, oppressed by mundanes for 900+ years, will rise up to oppress mundanes.  Round and round and round it goes and am I the only one who really hopes somebody in game advocates ending the cycle of oppression and retaliation?  Cause I've got to tell you, if I'm the guy saying we need to calm down and stop the violence, things have gone way too far.

I do advocate for ending it, but to do that, we need to end every last templar.

[Steelcan]

I want another Imperium for the lulz.

Anybody else?.... Anybody?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

He cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse. She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

This is twisted, Plaintiff.

You really believe that two wrongs make a right?

No, I don't believe that. Extrapolating that from my statements regarding an individual incident is serious over-reaching.

I don't believe that making Elthina suffer would be "wrong" in the first place. In most of Western society, we make our criminals suffer. Or did you think jail was like summer camp?

In the real world, people go to prison for neglecting their children or even their pets. Elthina's gross incompetence would see her on trial for human rights abuses. And so she should be. The excuses people offer up for her inaction are downright pathetic. I've heard them all and I refuse to accept them.

I wonder what effect anders little bomb had in the portion of the fade that connects to kirkwall? I also wonder if all the spirits who were killed in the chantry managed to end up there, and what condition they would be in now?

[DPSSOC]

Xilizhra wrote...

What's your point? At best Anders little stunt is forgotten (unlikely but possible) and the mages don't have a harder time winning people over; they still have the problem of the current perception of mages. Nothing the Templars do is going to change anything except how the public feels about the Templars, them being bastards isn't going to make people warm up to the mages any more than your dog going rabid makes you more amicable to the hungry wolf outside your door. The mages have to actually do something to win people over.

Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.

Because the dangers of magic and mages were abstract.  After Kirkwall (all of Kirkwall not just Act 3) and any conflict the mages involve themselves in it's not going to be abstract anymore.  People were sympathizing with the image of the downtrodden apprentice, the collared slave, and that's not an image the mages can maintain while engaging in open warfare.

Xilizhra wrote...

I played ME1 and the portrayal of Cerberus was the same in both. We saw a different side in ME2 but they were both the same organization behaving the same way, an independent black ops organization willing to do anything in the pursuit of defending humanity. ME1 showed us that organization from the outside and ME2 showed us from the inside, what it's like to work for a group like that. ME3 turned them into mustache twirling villains with seemingly bottomless personnel and resources to draw on. Really hope this doesn't happen to either side in DA:I.

ME3 changed nothing, except for their ability to kidnap and indoctrinate people to create a bunch of assault troopers. The character of the organization never changed, we were just on the outside again.

Off topic but no, and if you want to discuss further I will do so happily in PM.  In 1 & 2 there was a logic to the organization's actions, twisted but it was there.  Nothing they do in 3 makes any kind of sense.

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
I think if I attained Godhood in the DA universe the first thing I'd do is strip the world of magic. If you can't play nice I'll take your toys away.

But...how will people be able to oppose you if you decide to go crazy?

They won't, I'm God now, deal with it.

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

What's your point? At best Anders little stunt is forgotten (unlikely but possible) and the mages don't have a harder time winning people over; they still have the problem of the current perception of mages. Nothing the Templars do is going to change anything except how the public feels about the Templars, them being bastards isn't going to make people warm up to the mages any more than your dog going rabid makes you more amicable to the hungry wolf outside your door. The mages have to actually do something to win people over.

Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.

Because the dangers of magic and mages were abstract.  After Kirkwall (all of Kirkwall not just Act 3) and any conflict the mages involve themselves in it's not going to be abstract anymore.  People were sympathizing with the image of the downtrodden apprentice, the collared slave, and that's not an image the mages can maintain while engaging in open warfare.

Xilizhra wrote...

I played ME1 and the portrayal of Cerberus was the same in both. We saw a different side in ME2 but they were both the same organization behaving the same way, an independent black ops organization willing to do anything in the pursuit of defending humanity. ME1 showed us that organization from the outside and ME2 showed us from the inside, what it's like to work for a group like that. ME3 turned them into mustache twirling villains with seemingly bottomless personnel and resources to draw on. Really hope this doesn't happen to either side in DA:I.

ME3 changed nothing, except for their ability to kidnap and indoctrinate people to create a bunch of assault troopers. The character of the organization never changed, we were just on the outside again.

Off topic but no, and if you want to discuss further I will do so happily in PM.  In 1 & 2 there was a logic to the organization's actions, twisted but it was there.  Nothing they do in 3 makes any kind of sense.

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
I think if I attained Godhood in the DA universe the first thing I'd do is strip the world of magic. If you can't play nice I'll take your toys away.

But...how will people be able to oppose you if you decide to go crazy?

They won't, I'm God now, deal with it.

Then I shall become a god and strip you of your godliness.

But to be serious many people have relatives or children who are mages and those are the ones who are likely to help them instead of the people who snatch them away.