1470 réponses à ce sujet

[DPSSOC]

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
That's kinda what started the whole Circle thing.  Mundanes, oppressed by mages for 1-3 millennia, rose up and proceeded to oppress mages.  Now you hope the mages, oppressed by mundanes for 900+ years, will rise up to oppress mundanes.  Round and round and round it goes and am I the only one who really hopes somebody in game advocates ending the cycle of oppression and retaliation?  Cause I've got to tell you, if I'm the guy saying we need to calm down and stop the violence, things have gone way too far.

I will advocate for peace however if the people of Thedas does'nt change the way they view mages then it's out of my hands and survival of the fittest will see who's right.

Xilizhra wrote...
I do advocate for ending it, but to do that, we need to end every last templar.

Ok you see neither of you is stopping the cycle though because you both advocate retaliation.  Also as I've said it's on the mages to give people a reason to change the way they view mages.  It is not on anyone but me to change how people perceive me, I am responsible for how I present myself to the world.

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
That's kinda what started the whole Circle thing.  Mundanes, oppressed by mages for 1-3 millennia, rose up and proceeded to oppress mages.  Now you hope the mages, oppressed by mundanes for 900+ years, will rise up to oppress mundanes.  Round and round and round it goes and am I the only one who really hopes somebody in game advocates ending the cycle of oppression and retaliation?  Cause I've got to tell you, if I'm the guy saying we need to calm down and stop the violence, things have gone way too far.

I will advocate for peace however if the people of Thedas does'nt change the way they view mages then it's out of my hands and survival of the fittest will see who's right.

Xilizhra wrote...
I do advocate for ending it, but to do that, we need to end every last templar.

Ok you see neither of you is stopping the cycle though because you both advocate retaliation.  Also as I've said it's on the mages to give people a reason to change the way they view mages.  It is not on anyone but me to change how people perceive me, I am responsible for how I present myself to the world.

I advocate everyone working together or dying together and that goes for mages and mundanes.

[DPSSOC]

cjones91 wrote...
Then I shall become a god and strip you of your godliness.

Ah but how can you attain godhood without magic?  See what I did there, upon achieving godhood my first act was to eliminate the one tool that might allow people to take it from me.

cjones91 wrote...
But to be serious many people have relatives or children who are mages and those are the ones who are likely to help them instead of the people who snatch them away.

Yes but many people who have relatives or children who are mages are terrified and disgusted by them.  Jowan's family for example.

[Xilizhra]

Because the dangers of magic and mages were abstract. After Kirkwall (all of Kirkwall not just Act 3) and any conflict the mages involve themselves in it's not going to be abstract anymore. People were sympathizing with the image of the downtrodden apprentice, the collared slave, and that's not an image the mages can maintain while engaging in open warfare.

True, now they're the hunted resistance.

Ok you see neither of you is stopping the cycle though because you both advocate retaliation. Also as I've said it's on the mages to give people a reason to change the way they view mages. It is not on anyone but me to change how people perceive me, I am responsible for how I present myself to the world.

This isn't about retaliation, this is about survival and preventing ourselves from being slaughtered wholesale by the templars. And if their fear is based solely on power, I doubt there's much we can do; in the more likely instance that it's based on Chantry propaganda, we may need Justinia's help.

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
Then I shall become a god and strip you of your godliness.

Ah but how can you attain godhood without magic?  See what I did there, upon achieving godhood my first act was to eliminate the one tool that might allow people to take it from me.

cjones91 wrote...
But to be serious many people have relatives or children who are mages and those are the ones who are likely to help them instead of the people who snatch them away.

Yes but many people who have relatives or children who are mages are terrified and disgusted by them.  Jowan's family for example.

I'm sure there are many mothers who resent the Chantry for snatching their children away,the people of Kirkwall rebelled against the Templars and they began hiding mages from them.But the source of the problem is the Chantry's propoganda and that's why I hope Justinia lives since she wants to change things.

Also Blood Magic made you a god and it does'nt require magic to use only Lyrium.

[Ausstig]

Xilizhra wrote...
Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.
.

And then Anders Blew up the Chantry, hard to play the helpless oppressed when you have that kind of power. 

Not to mention what will the Mages do for power? With out Lyrium what will they fuel their spells with? 

Xilizhra wrote...

True, now they're the hunted resistance.

Not a good place to be when they are alreayd hated/feared by the populace. How will they get supplies? Threaten people? Will they resort to blood magic? Yes some will and that will make people hate them more. 

One of the key difference between the Malayan Emergency and the Vietnam war, was that in Malaya the Communists where chinese and already viewed with a degree of mistrust by the Malayan population.

Modifié par Ausstig, 21 août 2013 - 04:42 .

[Plaintiff]

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.
.

And then Anders Blew up the Chantry, hard to play the helpless oppressed when you have that kind of power. 

Not to mention what will the Mages do for power? With out Lyrium what will they fuel their spells with? 

Their own mana, they've always been able to.

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Mana_and_the_Use_of_Magic

Lyirum bolsters mana and assists in the working of complex or powerful magics, but mages can still work basic spells purely by drawing on their mana.

And if worst comes to worst, there's always blood.

[Ausstig]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.
.

And then Anders Blew up the Chantry, hard to play the helpless oppressed when you have that kind of power. 

Not to mention what will the Mages do for power? With out Lyrium what will they fuel their spells with? 

Their own mana, they've always been able to.

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Mana_and_the_Use_of_Magic

Lyirum bolsters mana and assists in the working of complex or powerful magics, but mages can still work basic spells purely by drawing on their mana.

And if worst comes to worst, there's always blood.

Which is what people hate about mages, this will push people into the Templar camp. 

[Xilizhra]

Not a good place to be when they are alreayd hated/feared by the populace. How will they get supplies? Threaten people? Will they resort to blood magic? Yes some will and that will make people hate them more.

Oh, I doubt they'll be so universally hated/feared as all that.

[Sir DeLoria]

I support the Templars!

[Medhia Nox]

@cjones91: I bet there will be many mothers who will revile newborn mage children when they see what the mage rebels are willing to do in the name of freedom.

If Bioware doesn't explore the negatives of a violent revolution - I think it will be a missed opportunity.

[Xilizhra]

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

[Plaintiff]

Ausstig wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.
.

And then Anders Blew up the Chantry, hard to play the helpless oppressed when you have that kind of power. 

Not to mention what will the Mages do for power? With out Lyrium what will they fuel their spells with? 

Their own mana, they've always been able to.

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Mana_and_the_Use_of_Magic

Lyirum bolsters mana and assists in the working of complex or powerful magics, but mages can still work basic spells purely by drawing on their mana.

And if worst comes to worst, there's always blood.

Which is what people hate about mages, this will push people into the Templar camp. 

Nonsense. They can use their own blood, or the blood of volunteers.

Whether or not people would "like" it isn't really the point. You asked how mages would get along without lyirum. There's the answer.

[Sir DeLoria]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

[Xilizhra]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

They're needed, yes, but only as kindling.

[cjones91]

Medhia Nox wrote...

@cjones91: I bet there will be many mothers who will revile newborn mage children when they see what the mage rebels are willing to do in the name of freedom.

If Bioware doesn't explore the negatives of a violent revolution - I think it will be a missed opportunity.

If I was a parent and my child was taken away from me because he/she was considered a monster then I would be pissed at the people who did it.No mother would hate their own child no matter how brainwashed they are.

[cjones91]

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

The templars as they are now need to be disposed of,while people like Evangeline should be what the Templar Order stands for.

[cjones91]

Marten Stroud wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

If mages are indeed inherently chaotic, then isn't it ultimately impossible to control them?

What if attempted control merely begets further chaos?

See,that's why the Circles were bound to fail.If you treat people like monsters then you should'nt be surprised if they act like monsters,the Chantry/Templars were incompetent and created the problem they were trying to solve.

[cjones91]

Ausstig wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Cullen mentions that public sympathy was beginning to swing to the mages.
.

And then Anders Blew up the Chantry, hard to play the helpless oppressed when you have that kind of power. 

Not to mention what will the Mages do for power? With out Lyrium what will they fuel their spells with? 

Their own mana, they've always been able to.

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Mana_and_the_Use_of_Magic

Lyirum bolsters mana and assists in the working of complex or powerful magics, but mages can still work basic spells purely by drawing on their mana.

And if worst comes to worst, there's always blood.

Which is what people hate about mages, this will push people into the Templar camp. 

Sorry,but I really don't care what hateful people think.

[Sir DeLoria]

cjones91 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

The templars as they are now need to be disposed of,while people like Evangeline should be what the Templar Order stands for.

Yay! A second Tevinter, mages enslaving everyone and controlling a puppet Chantry.

[Sir DeLoria]

cjones91 wrote...

Marten Stroud wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

If mages are indeed inherently chaotic, then isn't it ultimately impossible to control them?

What if attempted control merely begets further chaos?

See,that's why the Circles were bound to fail.If you treat people like monsters then you should'nt be surprised if they act like monsters,the Chantry/Templars were incompetent and created the problem they were trying to solve.

Mages without training or control are extremely dangerous.

[cjones91]

Necanor wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

The templars as they are now need to be disposed of,while people like Evangeline should be what the Templar Order stands for.

Yay! A second Tevinter, mages enslaving everyone and controlling a puppet Chantry.

Wait...what makes you think I want a second Tevinter?How does having templars who are not ****s mean that a second Tevinter Imperium will rise?

[cjones91]

Necanor wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Marten Stroud wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

If mages are indeed inherently chaotic, then isn't it ultimately impossible to control them?

What if attempted control merely begets further chaos?

See,that's why the Circles were bound to fail.If you treat people like monsters then you should'nt be surprised if they act like monsters,the Chantry/Templars were incompetent and created the problem they were trying to solve.

Mages without training or control are extremely dangerous.

Agreed,but you need to treat them like humans/elves instead of monsters otherwise you cause the problem.

[Sir DeLoria]

cjones91 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
It's not really a violent revolution, it's a violent genocide and resistance to it.

Not all Mages are evil of course, but allowing all mages to roam free will result in an utter catastrophe. The Templars are needed.

The templars as they are now need to be disposed of,while people like Evangeline should be what the Templar Order stands for.

Yay! A second Tevinter, mages enslaving everyone and controlling a puppet Chantry.

Wait...what makes you think I want a second Tevinter?How does having templars who are not ****s mean that a second Tevinter Imperium will rise?

Because some mages will exploit the templars' weakness.