You put that goalpost back where you found it. People are saying the "mages" must be judged as one, not the "maleficar" must be judged as one.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Maleficar willingly practice forbidden magic.<_
Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
Derpy derp derp, not every family hates their mage children. Anders was dragged away from his mother as she screamed.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Yeah the Templar who saved Wynne after her own family locked her in a burning barn and let her ride on his shoulders was so cruel...<_<Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
Wanting Meredith gone only means that her cruelty exceeded the level they were personally comfortable with. At no point ever did they say they wanted to stop destroying families, or stop subjecting mages to mindrape or the risk of demonic possession.AresKeith wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
What you just said was nonsense because you clearly forgot about the Templars in DA2 who wanted to protect the Mages and wanted Meredith gone
Modifié par Plaintiff, 22 août 2013 - 04:44 .
Xilizhra wrote...
First of all, that's a false equivalence; the mage rebellion is on the same level as Justinia's Chantry. You're looking for Tevinter agents or something.sandalisthemaker wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
I don't believe he should have the option.EntropicAngel wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
No.I hope in the game, if you decide to kill all the templars and don't get their support, than you aren't able to get the best ending.
Do you feel the same about the opposite? If MisterJB kills all the mages and doesn't get their support, should he be able to get the best ending?
While I tend to lean slighty pro mage, I don't think that having the option to decimate theTemplars should be provided without also having the option of decimating the mage resistance.
Second, it's never been an option to massively alter the political face of Thedas, for good reasons; it'd make creating future games hell, or force Bioware to ignore some player choices. As such, it seems most logical to keep one general political future for Thedas with only some details changed. Given that just sticking the mages back into the Circle would render this whole plot pointless and that the templars have well overstayed their welcome as it is, I believe the best option is a future with the mages free and templars either gone or scattered.See this post.You're evading the question, Xil, and if I were given to mere implication I'd say that's answer enough.
Or they saw the Divine as a bleeding heart who blatantly disregarded the dangers of magic and thus endangered the populous with her naivete.Palidane wrote...
Okay, fair enough. Sorry, that was incredibly stupid, my mistake.Plaintiff wrote...
Lulz. Do you not see the difference between willingly joining an organization and being born into a group?Palidane wrote...
I agree. If you're going to judge all the Templars as one, then you have to judge all the mages as one. The good and the bad, the Spirit Healers and the Maleficar.EntropicAngel wrote...
And, I think I'm going to file Templars slaughtering/raping mages under "criminals who happen to be Templars--kill as many as you like." Fair enough?
"If you're going to judge the Republican party as one, then you have to judge all black people as one."
But anyway, I agree with Xilizhra when it comes to Templars. Before the schism, you could argue that they had their dogmatic side and their heroic side and just needed reform. But after Asunder, the Templars have decided that policing mages is more important than listening to the Divine. In that moment, they stopped being "The Swords of the Chantry" and started being "mage-killers". If you made that choice, I have no issues with killing you.
It doesn't.Darth Brotarian wrote...
So I guess deciding whose the king of the dwarves and fereldan doesn;t count as altering the political face of thedas.
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't.Darth Brotarian wrote...
So I guess deciding whose the king of the dwarves and fereldan doesn;t count as altering the political face of thedas.
It doesn't and it won't. If those choices caused significant deviation from the planned storyline of the franchise, Bioware would not have given them to us.EntropicAngel wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't.Darth Brotarian wrote...
So I guess deciding whose the king of the dwarves and fereldan doesn;t count as altering the political face of thedas.
This should be good.
Plaintiff wrote...
Wanting Meredith gone only means that her cruelty exceeded the level they were personally comfortable with. At no point ever did they say they wanted to stop destroying families, or stop subjecting mages to mindrape or the risk of demonic possession.AresKeith wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
What you just said was nonsense because you clearly forgot about the Templars in DA2 who wanted to protect the Mages and wanted Meredith gone
And in any case, once they contravene the orders of their superiors, they're essentially not legitimate Templars any more.
Plaintiff wrote...
Lulz. Do you not see the difference between willingly joining an organization and being born into a group?Palidane wrote...
I agree. If you're going to judge all the Templars as one, then you have to judge all the mages as one. The good and the bad, the Spirit Healers and the Maleficar.EntropicAngel wrote...
And, I think I'm going to file Templars slaughtering/raping mages under "criminals who happen to be Templars--kill as many as you like." Fair enough?
"If you're going to judge the National Rifle Association as one, then you have to judge all black people as one."
Fair enough. But since I disagree with that opinion rather strenuously, I'm still down with killing any Templars who still identify as such.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Or they saw the Divine as a bleeding heart who blatantly disregarded the dangers of magic and thus endangered the populous with her naivete.
Gray conflicts are fun!
Guest_EntropicAngel_*
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't and it won't. If those choices caused significant deviation from the planned storyline of the franchise, Bioware would not have given them to us.
Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
So you said Templars are evil by default because of abusive Templars fair is fair. Tevinter and fools like Jowan and Morrigan prove the Templars are nesscessary.Plaintiff wrote...
You put that goalpost back where you found it. People are saying the "mages" must be judged as one, not the "maleficar" must be judged as one.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Maleficar willingly practice forbidden magic.<_
The Templars and the Mages are not morally equivalent groups, and trying to argue that they are is nonsense. One is an organization that members join of their own volition. The other is a genetic minority that people are born into.
Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 22 août 2013 - 04:57 .
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't and it won't. If those choices caused significant deviation from the planned storyline of the franchise, Bioware would not have given them to us.EntropicAngel wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't.Darth Brotarian wrote...
So I guess deciding whose the king of the dwarves and fereldan doesn;t count as altering the political face of thedas.
This should be good.
"You're acting as if every fireman puts out fires".AresKeith wrote...
Your acting as if every member does that
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't and it won't. If those choices caused significant deviation from the planned storyline of the franchise, Bioware would not have given them to us.EntropicAngel wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
It doesn't.Darth Brotarian wrote...
So I guess deciding whose the king of the dwarves and fereldan doesn;t count as altering the political face of thedas.
This should be good.
Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 22 août 2013 - 05:02 .
Darth Brotarian wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
Not every person who joins the police racially discriminate and preform police brutality. Most in fact do not. What you are calling for is the murdering of every police officer for the actions of a few.
No different than meredith when she ordered all the mages be killed for the actions of a few. For someone all about mage freedom and equality, you certainly preech a message of discrimination and hate.
AresKeith wrote...
Darth Brotarian wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
Not every person who joins the police racially discriminate and preform police brutality. Most in fact do not. What you are calling for is the murdering of every police officer for the actions of a few.
No different than meredith when she ordered all the mages be killed for the actions of a few. For someone all about mage freedom and equality, you certainly preech a message of discrimination and hate.
Seems hypocritical doesn't it lol
I said nothing of the kind.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
So you said Templars are evil by default because of abusive Templars fair is fair.
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.Plaintiff wrote...
Derpy derp derp, not every family hates their mage children. Anders was dragged away from his mother as she screamed.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Yeah the Templar who saved Wynne after her own family locked her in a burning barn and let her ride on his shoulders was so cruel...<_<Plaintiff wrote...
Of course they act cruel to the mages. It's a requirement of being a Templar. The things their job requires them to do are cruel. They simply are, and there's no way around it.AresKeith wrote...
And not all people who join the Templars acts cruel to mages or want them all tranquil or dead.
Taking children from their families is cruel, subjecting people to Tranquility is cruel. The Harrowing is cruel. It's all cruel.
If they didn't want to treat mages with cruelty, they shouldn't have become Templars. Because treating mages with cruelty is the core of the job description, just like being a fireman requires you to fight fires.
If Wynne's adoptive parents had wanted to keep her, that Templar would've taken her by force, because that is his job. If Wynne had resisted, he'd likely have had her restrained. It's only luck that circumstances didn't require him to be particularly cruel in that one instance.
Plaintiff wrote...
I said nothing of the kind.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
So you said Templars are evil by default because of abusive Templars fair is fair.
However, all Templars perform abusive and evil actions, because that is the nature of their work. Abusing mages is standard procedure. I am not talking about Alrik or Kerras, who like to rape on their lunch break, I am talking about the actual duties that are required of every single Templar.
Their very job is to be abusers, that is just cold, hard fact.
Janitors clean. Firemen fight fires. Judges judge. Templars abuse mages.
Whether or not that's "necessary" is up to you. I see no reason whatsoever why the system can't be different, except that it would require time and resources, both of which the Chantry has had plenty of, but chose not to use in the thousand years it's been in charge.
Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 22 août 2013 - 05:13 .
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