1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Not every person who joins the police racially discriminate and preform police brutality.

Of course not. The police aren't supposed to do either of those things. Their job description does not require it in any way, shape or form.

The Templars are not police. They are nothing like police. Their duties are entirely different. The Templars are required to profile mages, and they are required to brutal.

Most in fact do not. What you are calling for is the murdering of every police officer for the actions of a few.

Jesus ****ing Christ, you have not actually read a single word I've said

No different than meredith when she ordered all the mages be killed for the actions of a few.

Meredith didn't follow her job description, Meredith is irrelevent.

I am talking about activities that fall within the standard procedure of the Templar Order.

Meredith did not follow standard procedure. She has nothing to do with my argument.

For someone all about mage freedom and equality, you certainly preech a message of discrimination and hate.

Discriminating against people for their choices is not the same as discriminating against them for their circumstances.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Not every person who joins the police racially discriminate and preform police brutality.

Of course not. The police aren't supposed to do either of those things. Their job description does not require it in any way, shape or form.

The Templars are not police. They are nothing like police. Their duties are entirely different. The Templars are required to profile mages, and they are required to brutal.

Most in fact do not. What you are calling for is the murdering of every police officer for the actions of a few.

Jesus ****ing Christ, you have not actually read a single word I've said

No different than meredith when she ordered all the mages be killed for the actions of a few.

Meredith didn't follow her job description, Meredith is irrelevent.

I am talking about activities that fall within the standard procedure of the Templar Order.

Meredith did not follow standard procedure. She has nothing to do with my argument.

For someone all about mage freedom and equality, you certainly preech a message of discrimination and hate.

Discriminating against people for their choices is not the same as discriminating against them for their circumstances.

Meredith is relevant, becuase you are acting like the meredith of mage supporters.

[Plaintiff]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.

If you want another example there's Thrask,Otto,Evangeline or Greagior.

The standard procedures of the Templar Order are needlessly cruel. The Harrowing is needlessly cruel, and subjecting mages to Tranquility because you deem them unfit to attempt the Harrowing is even worse. Otto and Greagoir are a part of that system.

Thrask only disagreed with Meredith, not with standard Templar procedure.

Evangeline is a traitor to the Templar Order and is likely no longer a member.

A cop will do the same if a suspect resists are all cops cruel?

Most criminals are not six.

And in fact a cop will not do the same. There is such a thing as police brutality and it is illegal.

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Not every person who joins the police racially discriminate and preform police brutality.

Of course not. The police aren't supposed to do either of those things. Their job description does not require it in any way, shape or form.

The Templars are not police. They are nothing like police. Their duties are entirely different. The Templars are required to profile mages, and they are required to brutal.

Most in fact do not. What you are calling for is the murdering of every police officer for the actions of a few.

Jesus ****ing Christ, you have not actually read a single word I've said

No different than meredith when she ordered all the mages be killed for the actions of a few.

Meredith didn't follow her job description, Meredith is irrelevent.

I am talking about activities that fall within the standard procedure of the Templar Order.

Meredith did not follow standard procedure. She has nothing to do with my argument.

For someone all about mage freedom and equality, you certainly preech a message of discrimination and hate.

Discriminating against people for their choices is not the same as discriminating against them for their circumstances.

Meredith is relevant, becuase you are acting like the meredith of mage supporters.

Derp, what I am or am not acting like is not relevant either.

Address the actual point I'm making, if you even understand it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I think mage meredith above me has a good point. We can't trust the filthy templars and their inherent evil. They need to be annulled immediately and with extreme prejudice. In fact where are their families? I have a nice fireball for that evil templars little sister to play with.

[AresKeith]

Plaintiff wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.

If you want another example there's Thrask,Otto,Evangeline or Greagior.

The standard procedures of the Templar Order are needlessly cruel. The Harrowing is needlessly cruel, and subjecting mages to Tranquility because you deem them unfit to attempt the Harrowing is even worse. Otto and Greagoir are a part of that system.

Thrask only disagreed with Meredith, not with standard Templar procedure.

Evangeline is a traitor to the Templar Order and is likely no longer a member.

The Harrowing while harsh has a good reason behind it, the same with The Rite of Tranquility (which I don't agree with)

Greagoir and Thrask still didn't hate all Mages or cruel to them

[Dave of Canada]

Zanallen wrote...

Why do people still get dragged into this discussion?

Because these people would see the game cater only to their needs because they see everyone else as wrong, I'll forever try to argue that we should always have the choice to see who we can side with and which opinions we're allowed to have portrayed in-game, even theirs.

It's scary that they want less options.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 août 2013 - 05:27 .

[Plaintiff]

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.

If you want another example there's Thrask,Otto,Evangeline or Greagior.

The standard procedures of the Templar Order are needlessly cruel. The Harrowing is needlessly cruel, and subjecting mages to Tranquility because you deem them unfit to attempt the Harrowing is even worse. Otto and Greagoir are a part of that system.

Thrask only disagreed with Meredith, not with standard Templar procedure.

Evangeline is a traitor to the Templar Order and is likely no longer a member.

The Harrowing while harsh has a good reason behind it, the same with The Rite of Tranquility (which I don't agree with)

Greagoir and Thrask still didn't hate all Mages or cruel to them

The Harrowing is retarded, mages pass by sheer luck, and there's no guarantee whatsoever that they'll be able to do it again. Might as well flip a coin and chop off a mage's head every time it comes up tails.

They should be teaching the mages reliable techniques for resisting demonic influence. Something that they'll be able to practice and refine.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Leave sibling killer mage meredith alone! The harrowing is a cruel imposing of will on children that is probably a form of sexual abuse. A mage has the right to be possessed by a demon and become an abomination if they don't learn to control their powers.

You're just oppressing their freedom of choice with your stupid laws and concern for non-mages.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.

If you want another example there's Thrask,Otto,Evangeline or Greagior.

The standard procedures of the Templar Order are needlessly cruel. The Harrowing is needlessly cruel, and subjecting mages to Tranquility because you deem them unfit to attempt the Harrowing is even worse. Otto and Greagoir are a part of that system.

Thrask only disagreed with Meredith, not with standard Templar procedure.

Evangeline is a traitor to the Templar Order and is likely no longer a member.

The Harrowing while harsh has a good reason behind it, the same with The Rite of Tranquility (which I don't agree with)

Greagoir and Thrask still didn't hate all Mages or cruel to them

The Harrowing is retarded, mages pass by sheer luck, and there's no guarantee whatsoever that they'll be able to do it again. Might as well flip a coin and chop off a mage's head every time it comes up tails.

They should be teaching the mages reliable techniques for resisting demonic influence. Something that they'll be able to practice and refine.

Mages should also be allowed cheat sheets on test, and if need be, request the professor write all the answers on the board so that they may pass the test.

Anything less is bigoted discrimination!

[Shadow Fox]

Plaintiff wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
So you said Templars are evil by default because of abusive Templars fair is fair.

I said nothing of the kind.

However, all Templars perform abusive and evil actions, because that is the nature of their work. Abusing mages is standard procedure. I am not talking about Alrik or Kerras, who like to rape on their lunch break, I am talking about the actual duties that are required of every single Templar.

Their very job is to be abusers, that is just cold, hard fact.

Janitors clean. Firemen fight fires. Judges judge. Templars abuse mages.

Whether or not that's "necessary" is up to you. I see no reason whatsoever why the system can't be different, except that it would require time and resources, both of which the Chantry has had plenty of, but chose not to use in the thousand years it's been in charge.

The Templar's job is really no different from an asylum's both protect the populous from dangerous people who are dangerous through no fault of their own and to protect them from themselves and others,both have abuse in the system and are controversial. Templars act as jailors,guards,protectors and if need be executioners for mages.

Because in the end mages are living unstable weapons and can not be allowed to do as they please without some supervision they'll never have close to total freedom unless they become less dangerous that's a sad truth.

[Ravensword]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Why do people still get dragged into this discussion?

Because these people would see the game cater only to their needs because they see everyone else as wrong, I'll forever try to argue that we should always have the choice to see who we can side with and which opinions we're allowed to have portrayed in-game, even theirs.

It's scary that they want less options.

You're talking about a BW game here.

[Sir JK]

Plaintiff wrote...

They should be teaching the mages reliable techniques for resisting demonic influence. Something that they'll be able to practice and refine.

Which techniques are these?
Noone denies that that would not be better. Should there be a better method? Yes. Is there one though?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Ravensword wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Why do people still get dragged into this discussion?

Because these people would see the game cater only to their needs because they see everyone else as wrong, I'll forever try to argue that we should always have the choice to see who we can side with and which opinions we're allowed to have portrayed in-game, even theirs.

It's scary that they want less options.

You're talking about a BW game here.

Eventually Bioware is just going to start making dating sims.

Then the fans really will have legitimate reasons for their waifu wars, until then chaos reigns.

[Dave of Canada]

Ravensword wrote...

You're talking about a BW game here.

You're right and that makes me sad. Mass Effect 3 was a step in creating a linear experience, I wouldn't be surprised if DA:I did the same and went with the most politically correct path to appease the majority.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 août 2013 - 05:36 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Ravensword wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Why do people still get dragged into this discussion?

Because these people would see the game cater only to their needs because they see everyone else as wrong, I'll forever try to argue that we should always have the choice to see who we can side with and which opinions we're allowed to have portrayed in-game, even theirs.

It's scary that they want less options.

You're talking about a BW game here.

Eventually Bioware is just going to start making dating sims.

Then the fans really will have legitimate reasons for their waifu wars, until then chaos reigns.

When that happens, people will still complain about dlc, gameplay not being rpg enough, and not having the ability to score with everyone, and not just the conquerable characters.

[Plaintiff]

Sir JK wrote...
Which techniques are these?
Noone denies that that would not be better. Should there be a better method? Yes. Is there one though?

Enough mages have passed the Harrowing and resisted demons in the past thousand years that they should be able to compare notes and determine what works.

We were able to expel demons from Connor's mind in Origins, and from Feynriel's in DA2. If there is currently no better method for determining mage strength than the Harrowing, then that can only be for lack of trying.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.

If you want another example there's Thrask,Otto,Evangeline or Greagior.

The standard procedures of the Templar Order are needlessly cruel. The Harrowing is needlessly cruel, and subjecting mages to Tranquility because you deem them unfit to attempt the Harrowing is even worse. Otto and Greagoir are a part of that system.

Thrask only disagreed with Meredith, not with standard Templar procedure.

Evangeline is a traitor to the Templar Order and is likely no longer a member.

The Harrowing while harsh has a good reason behind it, the same with The Rite of Tranquility (which I don't agree with)

Greagoir and Thrask still didn't hate all Mages or cruel to them

The Harrowing is retarded, mages pass by sheer luck, and there's no guarantee whatsoever that they'll be able to do it again. Might as well flip a coin and chop off a mage's head every time it comes up tails.

They should be teaching the mages reliable techniques for resisting demonic influence. Something that they'll be able to practice and refine.

Okay, enough games and making fun of you mage meredith. Enough of the act, let me tell you this straight.

The best way to deal with the fade, and it's demons, is to just say no. That's it. Morrigan does it, she refuses to belive what she sees in the fade is real, and she doesn't fall to becoming an abomination. The mage in DAO just has to know to call out the pride demon and it's lie, and refuse it's deal, and they pass the harrowing. They teach you, as the first lesson in the circle probably, to never accept deals in the fade and to not trust everything you see. That sounds like basic 101 material and it seems to be the best solution for dealing with demons and evil spirits when dreaming.

So basically, the only ones I could see failing the harrowing are those with an inability to say no, or the highly gullible, or those who can't remember their lessons. Killing the rage demon is the easy part, and I bet most if not all the mages succeed with ease on that. It's the part where they have to know the rule of stranger danger where it counts the most.

If you can't remember the very basic, most fundamental lesson of being a mage, or are too weak willed to refuse a literal deal with the devil and lack the integrity to keep from being corupted, than I wouldn't trust you being anymore powerful than you already are.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 22 août 2013 - 05:43 .

[Shadow Fox]

Plaintiff wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
No it shows not all Templars are needlessly cruel to mages like you seem to think and some will even protect them at their own risk.

If you want another example there's Thrask,Otto,Evangeline or Greagior.

The standard procedures of the Templar Order are needlessly cruel. The Harrowing is needlessly cruel, and subjecting mages to Tranquility because you deem them unfit to attempt the Harrowing is even worse. Otto and Greagoir are a part of that system.

Thrask only disagreed with Meredith, not with standard Templar procedure.

Evangeline is a traitor to the Templar Order and is likely no longer a member.

The Harrowing while harsh has a good reason behind it, the same with The Rite of Tranquility (which I don't agree with)

Greagoir and Thrask still didn't hate all Mages or cruel to them

The Harrowing is retarded, mages pass by sheer luck, and there's no guarantee whatsoever that they'll be able to do it again. Might as well flip a coin and chop off a mage's head every time it comes up tails.

They should be teaching the mages reliable techniques for resisting demonic influence. Something that they'll be able to practice and refine.

You mised*or disagree with* the point of the Harrowing it's to see if mages can resist demonic influence or temptation under pressure because a demon won't tempt you or try to possess you at your convenience.Is it cruel? Yes. Is it effective? Yes.

What  reliable techiques? Irving even tells you there are none except common sense and self control which alot of people lack..

[Plaintiff]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
That's it. Morrigan does it, she refuses to belive what she sees in the fade is real, and she doesn't fall to becoming an abomination.

Yes, Morrigan resists the Fade. You know who fails? Senior Enchanter Wynne.

You know what that means? It means the Harrowing is utterly useless as a determinator of mage willpower. Wynne passed it years ago and was utterly incapable of recognizing where she was.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
That's it. Morrigan does it, she refuses to belive what she sees in the fade is real, and she doesn't fall to becoming an abomination.

Yes, Morrigan resists the Fade. You know who fails? Senior Enchanter Wynne.

You know what that means? It means the Harrowing is utterly useless as a determinator of mage willpower. Wynne passed it years ago and was utterly incapable of recognizing where she was.

Didn't she also become an abomination lite?

[addiction21]

I agree the Harrowing is cruel and it proves nothing. Many mages that have passed their harrowing have fallen prey to demons and the usual human failings.

Mages are just as fallible as any other person. The difference is that given the right emotional stress they can level neighborhoods when left unchecked.

[Cainhurst Crow]

addiction21 wrote...

I agree the Harrowing is cruel and it proves nothing. Many mages that have passed their harrowing have fallen prey to demons and the usual human failings.

Mages are just as fallible as any other person. The difference is that given the right emotional stress they can level neighborhoods when left unchecked.

Can you provide evidence that mages who don't go through the harrowing are just as likely to turn abomination as mages who do?

And I do mean evidence, like numbers, in game evidence, and not just something BS like how because some mages go abomination after the harrowing, that makes it pointless.

Because even though people have drivers test and liscences, they still end up in accidents, so all drivers test and liscences are pointless and shouldn't be bothered with.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 22 août 2013 - 06:03 .

[Shadow Fox]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
That's it. Morrigan does it, she refuses to belive what she sees in the fade is real, and she doesn't fall to becoming an abomination.

Yes, Morrigan resists the Fade. You know who fails? Senior Enchanter Wynne.

You know what that means? It means the Harrowing is utterly useless as a determinator of mage willpower. Wynne passed it years ago and was utterly incapable of recognizing where she was.

Except Morrigan was raised by Flemeth so she doesn't really represent the average mage and Morrigan thinks the OGB was a good idea despite only having her mother's book to go on.

[Shadow Fox]

Plaintiff wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
That's it. Morrigan does it, she refuses to belive what she sees in the fade is real, and she doesn't fall to becoming an abomination.

Yes, Morrigan resists the Fade. You know who fails? Senior Enchanter Wynne.

You know what that means? It means the Harrowing is utterly useless as a determinator of mage willpower. Wynne passed it years ago and was utterly incapable of recognizing where she was.

On the other hand Irving doesn't nor does the Warden or Nial That's '3:1 in favor.