1470 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ausstig wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

duckley wrote...

Can anyone explain the notion that all Templars are abusive?

The Harrowing is abuse.

Tranquility is abuse.

Taking children away from their families is abuse.

All Templars can be called on at any time to perform these tasks.

So is slavery yet I don't see you arguing all mages are abusive.
Blood magic:bandit:
Except for mages like Wynne then it's a rescue from abuse.:innocent:

And a mage can blow up a city at anytime;)

Blood magic isn't evil just chantry propaganda because they can't control it that same for shapeshifter blood magic is tool if it is evil sword and other magic which can hurt is evil too.

Please explain how mind control is not evil? 

lol how brainwhasing what chantry do is not evil? yes it is
manipulating evil overlord is evil? no
someone takes hostages and you use mind control and guy surrenders. no evil

Blood magic isn't only mind control and even mind control may be used in good not wicked purposes.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 août 2013 - 10:47 .

[TTTX]

Ausstig wrote...

Please explain how mind control is not evil? 

Blood magic is more then just mind control (to answere your question, it depends on who it's used on really), the Chantry uses blood magic to track the mages of the circle, its also used to create grey wardens just to give a few other examples of blood magic.

[Ausstig]

TTTX wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Please explain how mind control is not evil? 

Blood magic is more then just mind control (to answere your question, it depends on who it's used on really), the Chantry uses blood magic to track the mages of the circle, its also used to create grey wardens just to give a few other examples of blood magic.

But these are under very controled circumstances. 

And isn't letting people mind control others a very dangerious sloop to start on? How long until it's "these people disagree with me, they must be evil/not good for the world, I will just mind control them to make it better". 

[MisterJB]

World of Thedas page 109 "The more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful a spell becomes."

So, a blood mage who cut his hand to power a spell will never be as powerful as the mage who cut out the heart of a slave with a rusty spoon.
While I won't claim blood magic is inherently evil, it is certainly quite ghastly and open for abuse and any decent, trustworthy mage would voluntarely abstain from it.

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 août 2013 - 10:57 .

[TTTX]

Ausstig wrote...

But these are under very controled circumstances. 

And isn't letting people mind control others a very dangerious sloop to start on? How long until it's "these people disagree with me, they must be evil/not good for the world, I will just mind control them to make it better". 

Depends on the person really, not everyone have the urges to control others.

But Blood magic isn't evil as some people believe, it how it's used that makes it good or evil, much like how you use a gun or sword it can't be used for good or evil depending on ones actions and choices.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Ausstig wrote...

TTTX wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Please explain how mind control is not evil? 

Blood magic is more then just mind control (to answere your question, it depends on who it's used on really), the Chantry uses blood magic to track the mages of the circle, its also used to create grey wardens just to give a few other examples of blood magic.

And isn't letting people mind control others a very dangerious sloop to start on? How long until it's "these people disagree with me, they must be evil/not good for the world, I will just mind control them to make it better". 

Heh judging by chantry and qunari not long but chantry unlike qun just kills that who doesn't want live like they want.  

Problem in that you don't need blood magic to control peoples and blood magic can't control a large group of peoples (not without extremely powerful ritual) well in comics they need maric blood otherwise old tevinter would rule world forever if they could do that.And you can practically free yourself from mind control.  for what you use depends only on you like any other tool you can use hammer to kill or create full choice.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 août 2013 - 11:17 .

[Parmida]

MInd control is really useful you know. You can have some Blood Mages as city guard and send them on critical missions to rescue a hostage or tame a serial killer and catch him or play the spy in bandit holds to find out about their plans.

Actually Blood Mages would make perfect spies.

[Ausstig]

Parmida wrote...

MInd control is really useful you know. You can have some Blood Mages as city guard and send them on critical missions to rescue a hostage or tame a serial killer and catch him or play the spy in bandit holds to find out about their plans.

Actually Blood Mages would make perfect spies.

Do you think they wouldn't abuse that power!?

I mean there are enough issues with corruption in police in our world, how bad would it be if they could control minds? 

[Star fury]

Ausstig wrote...

Do you think they wouldn't abuse that power!?

I mean there are enough issues with corruption in police in our world, how bad would it be if they could control minds? 

They would make perfect police lol. I mean how you commit a crime if police controls you?

[Xilizhra]

MisterJB wrote...

World of Thedas page 109 "The more violent the pain or death used in blood magic, the more powerful a spell becomes."

So, a blood mage who cut his hand to power a spell will never be as powerful as the mage who cut out the heart of a slave with a rusty spoon.
While I won't claim blood magic is inherently evil, it is certainly quite ghastly and open for abuse and any decent, trustworthy mage would voluntarely abstain from it.

What we know: Using one's own blood is powerful enough to cleanse the darkspawn taint from an Eluvian or turn yourself into a Harvester, using multiple sacrifices isn't enough to keep oneself from getting killed by four random people who barge into your slave dungeon. Also, just because something is open to abuse (like literally any power), it doesn't mean that no one decent would ever use it.

[drake heath]

So the Templars are going to become two dimensional enemies we fight for the entirety of the next game?

[Xilizhra]

Well, they were already no less two-dimensional than Cerberus, so I do hope we fight them for the entirety of the game.

[drake heath]

Come to think of it, Cerberus lost that second dimension in ME3, they were basically husks.

Actually, everyone became one dimensional in ME3, so let's just forget that game ever existed.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, they were already no less two-dimensional than Cerberus, so I do hope we fight them for the entirety of the game.

False and lame.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 22 août 2013 - 02:22 .

[leaguer of one]

Plaintiff wrote...

duckley wrote...

Can anyone explain the notion that all Templars are abusive?

The Harrowing is abuse.

Tranquility is abuse.

Taking children away from their families is abuse.

All Templars can be called on at any time to perform these tasks.

The harrowing is nessiary to teach mages how to deal with resisting demons.

There mages who ask to be tranquil , so no it's not abuse unless it's forced.

Taking children from their family is also nessissary because they would be worst off ignorant of how to control magic and resist demons.

Please try agein.

[leaguer of one]

drake heath wrote...

Come to think of it, Cerberus lost that second dimension in ME3, they were basically husks.

Actually, everyone became one dimensional in ME3, so let's just forget that game ever existed.

No they did not.

[The Elder King]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, they were already no less two-dimensional than Cerberus, so I do hope we fight them for the entirety of the game.

In DAO they weren't two-dimensional enemies. In DA2, yes, they were, but mages were crazy blood mages who killed and sacrificed people. I'll guess my Inquisition will enjoy stoppini those two groups of villain.Are you Ignoring that the devs stated in this very monday's GI interview that both groups were written to show their worst side?

Modifié par hhh89, 22 août 2013 - 03:38 .

[badboy64]

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

duckley wrote...

Can anyone explain the notion that all Templars are abusive?

The Harrowing is abuse.

Tranquility is abuse.

Taking children away from their families is abuse.

All Templars can be called on at any time to perform these tasks.

The harrowing is nessiary to teach mages how to deal with resisting demons.

There mages who ask to be tranquil , so no it's not abuse unless it's forced.

Taking children from their family is also nessissary because they would be worst off ignorant of how to control magic and resist demons.

Please try agein.

I can see that what the harrowing is for them to resist a demon and if they pass it they are still kept in the tower regardless. No wonder some of the mages want to be tranquill because of the abuse from the templars for the last 1000 years. Can you blame them? Taken away from their homes at a young age and never to see their parents again or never being free from the templars grasp period.<_< I bet alot of mages regardless if they go through the harrowing or not never even think of going to blood mage or becoming a abomination if they want to. That is what happens to most when they get pushed a little too far to protect themselves from their abusers.<_<

[DKJaigen]

Cerberus acted the way they did in m3 because of reaper indoctrination. I would not be surprised at all that the templars are suffering the same fate as cerberus. Most likely bloodmages have hijacked the minds of a few knight commanders because the templars actions in the last book is nothing short of political suicide. Their actions have left Thedas open for invasion. The chantry has lost all political cloud and cannot organize exalted marches . The templars have gone haywire and the mages no longer have any reason to aid the chantry states.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

If all templars have to go mad or become indoctrinated to tell a story then I'm not even gonna bother. ME3 cerberus could have been so much better if they didn't just go "lol, indoctrination"! TIM could have been the Loghain of the series, ruthless and cruel but doing what he does because he believes the end justifies the mean and that somethings must be sacrificed to accomplish it no matter how much he agrees or disagrees with it.

Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 22 août 2013 - 04:31 .

[DKJaigen]

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

duckley wrote...

Can anyone explain the notion that all Templars are abusive?

The Harrowing is abuse.

Tranquility is abuse.

Taking children away from their families is abuse.

All Templars can be called on at any time to perform these tasks.

The harrowing is nessiary to teach mages how to deal with resisting demons.

There mages who ask to be tranquil , so no it's not abuse unless it's forced.

Taking children from their family is also nessissary because they would be worst off ignorant of how to control magic and resist demons.

Please try agein.

While i agree that mages need to be tested i find the way they do it crude and unreliable.

[DKJaigen]

DarkKnightHolmes wrote...

If all templars have to go mad or become indoctrinated to tell a story then I'm not even gonna bother. ME3 cerberus could have been so much better if they didn't just go "lol, indoctrination"! TIM could have been the Loghain of the series, ruthless and cruel but doing what he does because he believes the end justifies the mean and that somethings must be sacrificed to accomplish it no matter how much he agrees or disagrees with it.

Mate i have had my suspiscion about the use stability of the current system already. It was shown during DAO that the templars are very easily manipulated.  The first serious threath the chantry faced was the qunuari and it nearly destroyed them. I wondered what would happen if they  faced an enemy that uses bloodmagic skillfully and targets the templars first. The answer is the current state of thedas,

[MisterJB]

Morocco Mole wrote...

One thing that inspires confidence is that templars are apparently a recruitable faction.

On what basis?

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 août 2013 - 04:56 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Plaintiff wrote...

duckley wrote...

Can anyone explain the notion that all Templars are abusive?

The Harrowing is abuse.

Tranquility is abuse.

Taking children away from their families is abuse.

All Templars can be called on at any time to perform these tasks.

The only thing that's abuse here is listening to your extremist pro-mage stand, Mage Meredith.

All of those have reasons behind them that are valid when you look at the bigger picture of things beyond the poor human rights that put everyone elses lives in danger. Mages need training, they are taken to the circle for training unless you want abominations killing villages like conner and meredith's sister. There they ae trained for years in the arts of magic, given lessons on the fade, magic, spirits, demons, everything, and taught valuable lessons on willpower, all whihc leads to the harrowing, which is to prove they can be trusted to fend off temptation on their own, because it's not like the demons will stop coming after them just because they don't want them to, they need the will to resist them. Tranquility reist as a resort for mages who would have too high a risk of becoming mass-murdering abominations, or for those who think themselves too weak, since that proves they lack the will to resist the demon should they face one. It can also be used as a punishement against blood mages, should one be taken alive, and as a captial punishement I find no qualms with it.

Before anyone brings up kirkwall, what happeend there was what happens when the most extreme cases end up gathered in one city on both sides. Half the things that happen break the lore on mages extensively, and so you should take what occured with a grain of salt.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 22 août 2013 - 05:06 .