1470 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
So take their people away.

If you're fine with nobles being unregulated, then you're a hypocrite. The ease with which they commit atrocities is of no consequence. Imprison everyone with the potential to cause harm or let them all go free.

That's f*cking stupid. A child might grab an hammer and smack my foot but that is the extent of the harm s/he will be able to cause. A mage can tap my head and make me explode from the inside out (Walking Bomb). Obviously, the threat they pose is not quite the same and it doesn't warrant the same vigilance.
Next you'll be telling us a 9mm and a biochemical weapon is exactly the same thing and we should watch one as carefully as we watch the other. It's ludicrious.

[AresKeith]

Plaintiff wrote...

 then you're a hypocrite.

Says the person who ultimately brands all Templars as abusive and evil

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
So take their people away.

If you're fine with nobles being unregulated, then you're a hypocrite. The ease with which they commit atrocities is of no consequence. Imprison everyone with the potential to cause harm or let them all go free.

That's f*cking stupid. A child might grab an hammer and smack my foot but that is the extent of the harm s/he will be able to cause. A mage can tap my head and make me explode from the inside out (Walking Bomb). Obviously, the threat they pose is not quite the same and it doesn't warrant the same vigilance.
Next you'll be telling us a 9mm and a biochemical weapon is exactly the same thing and we should watch one as carefully as we watch the other. It's ludicrious.

That child might grow up to be a fascist dictator who slaughters millions.

Everyone has the potential to cause untold harm. Which is why we don't imprison people based on potential, but rather on what they actually do.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 août 2013 - 01:17 .

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
Anything that happens once they get to the reality-bending dream dimension is rather moot.

it is anything but. A normal person may kill another. A mage may drag that another into the Fade and kill him a thousand times over.

Congratulations, you've shown what can happen if one is a mage and has access to all the non-magical perks that come with being wealthy and of status.

We SAW her performing the spell which returned everything back to reality. All she needed was the blood of a single person, that was it. She didn't even need to kill the First, just look at him.
So, there were no non-magical perks which came into play here. All the Baroness needed was the life of a single person in order to destroy a city and create a centuries old curse.

[billy the squid]

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
So take their people away.

If you're fine with nobles being unregulated, then you're a hypocrite. The ease with which they commit atrocities is of no consequence. Imprison everyone with the potential to cause harm or let them all go free.

That's f*cking stupid. A child might grab an hammer and smack my foot but that is the extent of the harm s/he will be able to cause. A mage can tap my head and make me explode from the inside out (Walking Bomb). Obviously, the threat they pose is not quite the same and it doesn't warrant the same vigilance.
Next you'll be telling us a 9mm and a biochemical weapon is exactly the same thing and we should watch one as carefully as we watch the other. It's ludicrious.

That child might grow up to be a fascist dictator who slaughters millions.

Everyone has the potential to cause untold harm. Which is why we don't imprison people based on potential, but rather on what they actually do.

What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Modifié par billy the squid, 23 août 2013 - 01:23 .

[Plaintiff]

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

 then you're a hypocrite.

Says the person who ultimately brands all Templars as abusive and evil

Abusive, yes. It's a requirement of the job. Something pro-Templars just have to learn to accept.

"Evil" is relative. I don't use that term in serious discussions if I can help it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 23 août 2013 - 01:21 .

[AresKeith]

Plaintiff wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

 then you're a hypocrite.

Says the person who ultimately brands all Templars as abusive and evil

Abusive, yes. It's a requirement of the job. Something pro-Templars just have to learn to accept.

"Evil" is relative. I don't use that term in serious discussions if I can help it.

Except that it's not. Something pro-Mages just have to learn to accept

Luckly I'm neutral

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
That child might grow up to be a fascist dictator who slaughters millions.

Everyone has the potential to cause untold harm. Which is why we don't imprison people based on potential, but rather on what they actually do.

Yes, yes we do. All of the laws that restrict my freedom and your freedom and the freedoms of everyone in Western Society are in place because we might be dangerous. For instance, the laws that forbid me from driving a car without a license don't apply to me if I have an accident and kill someone; they apply to me by default.
On our world, we actually all present, more or less, the same level of threat. All of us can grab a gun and shoot someone; in that, we are equal. But in Thedas, mages are ridiculously more dangerous than everyone else and thus, they merit harsher restrictions upon their freedom that should apply by default just like everyone else's do so.

Oh and even if that child should grow up to become a dictator, we are still talking about numerous requirements in order for that person to be able to slaugther millions. All a mage needs is, well, magic and that is born with him or her.

[Plaintiff]

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed

The mentally disturbed cannot take care of themselves. Their potential to cause harm to themselves or others isn't a sole factor in their insitutionalisation. It's often not a facotr at all.

or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant survailence and house arrest?

If we do, then I oppose it. Just like I oppose many of the "precautinary measures" taken by Western powers in the wake of 9/11. 

My God, where is this fantastic place that you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Whether or not it happens is irrelevent.

[Zanallen]

Plaintiff wrote...

Abusive, yes. It's a requirement of the job. Something pro-Templars just have to learn to accept.

"Evil" is relative. I don't use that term in serious discussions if I can help it.

The only job description templars have is to segregate mages from non-mages in order to ultimately facilitate the protection of both parties from the other. It isn't inherently abusive.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

 then you're a hypocrite.

Says the person who ultimately brands all Templars as abusive and evil

Abusive, yes. It's a requirement of the job. Something pro-Templars just have to learn to accept.

"Evil" is relative. I don't use that term in serious discussions if I can help it.

Next time a child protection services takes a kid from parents that are clearly unable to take care of him/her; much like non-mages parents are not equipped to train and control their mage children; I'll tell them they're being abusive.

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...
Yes, yes we do. All of the laws that restrict my freedom and your freedom and the freedoms of everyone in Western Society are in place because we might be dangerous.

That's not imprisonment.

For instance, the laws that forbid me from driving a car without a license don't apply to me if I have an accident and kill someone; they apply to me by default.

That's not imprisonment.

On our world, we actually all present, more or less, the same level of threat. All of us can grab a gun and shoot someone; in that, we are equal. But in Thedas, mages are ridiculously more dangerous than everyone else and thus, they merit harsher restrictions upon their freedom that should apply by default just like everyone else's do so.

Nope.

Oh and even if that child should grow up to become a dictator, we are still talking about numerous requirements in order for that person to be able to slaugther millions. All a mage needs is, well, magic and that is born with him or her.

So what?

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...
Next time a child protection services takes a kid from parents that are clearly unable to take care of him/her; much like non-mages parents are not equipped to train and control their mage children; I'll tell them they're being abusive.

Fine by me.

[Plaintiff]

Zanallen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Abusive, yes. It's a requirement of the job. Something pro-Templars just have to learn to accept.

"Evil" is relative. I don't use that term in serious discussions if I can help it.

The only job description templars have is to segregate mages from non-mages in order to ultimately facilitate the protection of both parties from the other. It isn't inherently abusive.

Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

[Zanallen]

Plaintiff wrote...

The mentally disturbed cannot take care of themselves. Their potential to cause harm to themselves or others isn't a sole factor in their insitutionalisation. It's often not a facotr at all.

Actually, that is quite often the reason for a person being commited. A 5150 hold generally requires that the person be a threat to themselves or others.

[cjones91]

billy the squid wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
So take their people away.

If you're fine with nobles being unregulated, then you're a hypocrite. The ease with which they commit atrocities is of no consequence. Imprison everyone with the potential to cause harm or let them all go free.

That's f*cking stupid. A child might grab an hammer and smack my foot but that is the extent of the harm s/he will be able to cause. A mage can tap my head and make me explode from the inside out (Walking Bomb). Obviously, the threat they pose is not quite the same and it doesn't warrant the same vigilance.
Next you'll be telling us a 9mm and a biochemical weapon is exactly the same thing and we should watch one as carefully as we watch the other. It's ludicrious.

That child might grow up to be a fascist dictator who slaughters millions.

Everyone has the potential to cause untold harm. Which is why we don't imprison people based on potential, but rather on what they actually do.

What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Plaintiff wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Abusive, yes. It's a requirement of the job. Something pro-Templars just have to learn to accept.

"Evil" is relative. I don't use that term in serious discussions if I can help it.

The only job description templars have is to segregate mages from non-mages in order to ultimately facilitate the protection of both parties from the other. It isn't inherently abusive.

Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

So what do you suppose would happen if mages weren't.... 'abused' by segregation?

[Plaintiff]

Zanallen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The mentally disturbed cannot take care of themselves. Their potential to cause harm to themselves or others isn't a sole factor in their insitutionalisation. It's often not a facotr at all.

Actually, that is quite often the reason for a person being commited. A 5150 hold generally requires that the person be a threat to themselves or others.

Which is demonstrated by previous behaviour. Not just assumed by default.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
Nope.

Your argument-free rebuttal is so very persuasive.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 août 2013 - 01:35 .

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...
Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

F*ck quarantines to prevent the spreading of dangerous diseases. They are instruments of opression.

[sandalisthemaker]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

F*ck quarantines to prevent the spreading of dangerous diseases. They are instruments of opression.

That's not a fitting analogy.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Plaintiff wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

The mentally disturbed cannot take care of themselves. Their potential to cause harm to themselves or others isn't a sole factor in their insitutionalisation. It's often not a facotr at all.

Actually, that is quite often the reason for a person being commited. A 5150 hold generally requires that the person be a threat to themselves or others.

Which is demonstrated by previous behaviour. Not just assumed by default.

Typically, this sort of stuff is recognized early. And it is assumed by default in all cases. Mental stability is something where the margin of risk is inherently high. For the safety of them and of the public, we want these people identified and receiving help. That is how the system literally works.

[Zanallen]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

It isn't inherently abusive. It goes against the common idea of everyone created equally and civil rights, but not abusive in and of itself.

And, to be honest, mages are not created equally to nonmages. There is a fundamental difference there. This isn't the difference between black people and white people or gay people and straight people. This is the equivalent of babies born with machine guns and flamethrowers instead of arms. Sure, they might never use them, but they are there and cannot be removed without harming the child. Accidents happen and the potential for harm is far more than it would be for a non-weaponized child.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

F*ck quarantines to prevent the spreading of dangerous diseases. They are instruments of opression.

So you equate racism to diseases?I would agree if I did'nt know what you really meant.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Next time a child protection services takes a kid from parents that are clearly unable to take care of him/her; much like non-mages parents are not equipped to train and control their mage children; I'll tell them they're being abusive.

Fine by me.

You seem to lack a lot of understanding.