1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Seriously no one else want to be Archon?

[cjones91]

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Except for that one time an untrained abomination raised the dead and slowly destroyed a village.

Slowly being the keyword. Hardly a "walking nuclear bomb" as people say.

No one said they were walking nuclear bombs.

Note:
Storms,tidal waves and tornadoes can all destroy a town mages can conjure most of those at will:whistle:

Really?I guess I missed the spells that allow a mage to do that then.

Earthquake,Blizzard,Tempest,Inferno and Storm of the Century.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

Not all of them are power hungry egomaniacs.Mundanes have proven to be dicks all the time when they rape elves and kill them if they do something about it.

Modifié par cjones91, 23 août 2013 - 04:05 .

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Except for that one time an untrained abomination raised the dead and slowly destroyed a village.

Slowly being the keyword. Hardly a "walking nuclear bomb" as people say.

No one said they were walking nuclear bombs.

Note:
Storms,tidal waves and tornadoes can all destroy a town mages can conjure most of those at will:whistle:

Really?I guess I missed the spells that allow a mage to do that then.

Earthquake,Blizzard,Tempest,Inferno and Storm of the Century.

Those spells can't cause untold damage unless the mage is super powerful like the Warden.

[In Exile]

cjones91 wrote...

Not all of them are power hungry egomaniacs.Mundanes have proven to be dicks all the time when they rape elves and kill them if they do something about it.

But as Tevinter showed with Arlathan, when mages get serious about murdering elves, they wipe out part of the planet. All Orlais could do was "mostly" eradicate their homeland. Obviously a big difference. 

[Star fury]

Zanallen wrote...
It isn't inherently abusive. It goes against the common idea of everyone created equally and civil rights, but not abusive in and of itself. 

And, to be honest, mages are not created equally to nonmages. There is a fundamental difference there. This isn't the difference between black people and white people or gay people and straight people. This is the equivalent of babies born with machine guns and flamethrowers instead of arms. Sure, they might never use them, but they are there and cannot be removed without harming the child. Accidents happen and the potential for harm is far more than it would be for a non-weaponized child.

Yeah, mages are clearly better than common people tbh, therefore people without magic abilites have to serve them. Not vice versa like in Chantry worshipping countries or in Qunari controlled lands. Qunari treatment of mages is especially disgusting(it also awfully reminds me treatment of mages by Seanchan).  

Modifié par Star fury, 23 août 2013 - 04:21 .

[Star fury]

Steelcan wrote...

Seriously no one else want to be Archon?

I do. Tevinter magister will do too, as I wrote in an another thread.  

[Shadow Fox]

Star fury wrote...

Zanallen wrote...
It isn't inherently abusive. It goes against the common idea of everyone created equally and civil rights, but not abusive in and of itself. 

And, to be honest, mages are not created equally to nonmages. There is a fundamental difference there. This isn't the difference between black people and white people or gay people and straight people. This is the equivalent of babies born with machine guns and flamethrowers instead of arms. Sure, they might never use them, but they are there and cannot be removed without harming the child. Accidents happen and the potential for harm is far more than it would be for a non-weaponized child.

Yeah, mages are clearly better than common people tbh, therefore people without magic abilites have to serve them. Not vice versa like in Chantry worshipping countries or in Quanri controlled lands.   

And here we go.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

Not all of them are power hungry egomaniacs.Mundanes have proven to be dicks all the time when they rape elves and kill them if they do something about it.

Neither are Templars.And mages don't?Fenris disagrees.

[cjones91]

In Exile wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Not all of them are power hungry egomaniacs.Mundanes have proven to be dicks all the time when they rape elves and kill them if they do something about it.

But as Tevinter showed with Arlathan, when mages get serious about murdering elves, they wipe out part of the planet. All Orlais could do was "mostly" eradicate their homeland. Obviously a big difference. 

Mundanes have not only stripped the elves of their culture but as shown with Fiona the pretty ones are sold as sex slaves where they are raped repeatedly and there is nothing they can do about it.If there is a pretty female elf and she catches the attention of a noble then she will be raped.

Modifié par cjones91, 23 août 2013 - 04:15 .

[In Exile]

cjones91 wrote...
Mundanes have not only stripped the elves of their culture but as shown with Fiona the pretty ones are sold as sex slaves where they are raped repeatedly and there is nothing they can do about it.If there is a pretty female elf and she catches the attention of a noble then she will be raped.

I think I've just made my case for tone indicators. My previous post was nothing but sarcasm. 

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

Not all of them are power hungry egomaniacs.Mundanes have proven to be dicks all the time when they rape elves and kill them if they do something about it.

Neither are Templars.And mages don't?Fenris disagrees.

Fenris is biased so his opinions don't mean much,even he admits not all mages are evil so that blows your arguement out the window.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Except for that one time an untrained abomination raised the dead and slowly destroyed a village.

Slowly being the keyword. Hardly a "walking nuclear bomb" as people say.

No one said they were walking nuclear bombs.

Note:
Storms,tidal waves and tornadoes can all destroy a town mages can conjure most of those at will:whistle:

Really?I guess I missed the spells that allow a mage to do that then.

Earthquake,Blizzard,Tempest,Inferno and Storm of the Century.

Those spells can't cause untold damage unless the mage is super powerful like the Warden.

Wrong even a complete novice can set a town on fire.

[In Exile]

Might we get the nightmarish quote pyramids under control?

[cjones91]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

Except for that one time an untrained abomination raised the dead and slowly destroyed a village.

Slowly being the keyword. Hardly a "walking nuclear bomb" as people say.

No one said they were walking nuclear bombs.

Note:
Storms,tidal waves and tornadoes can all destroy a town mages can conjure most of those at will:whistle:

Really?I guess I missed the spells that allow a mage to do that then.

Earthquake,Blizzard,Tempest,Inferno and Storm of the Century.

Those spells can't cause untold damage unless the mage is super powerful like the Warden.

Wrong even a complete novice can set a town on fire.

And set himself on fire in the process.

[cjones91]

In Exile wrote...

Might we get the nightmarish quote pyramids under control?

Maybe we can build the largest quote pyramids that had ever existed?

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

Not all of them are power hungry egomaniacs.Mundanes have proven to be dicks all the time when they rape elves and kill them if they do something about it.

Neither are Templars.And mages don't?Fenris disagrees.

Fenris is biased so his opinions don't mean much,even he admits not all mages are evil so that blows your arguement out the window.

Pot and kettle there friend  and that doesn't mean there aren't evil mages.

[cjones91]

edited: removed quote pyramid. ~Mod05

I never said there were'nt any,however I don't condemn all mages just because some of them are evil.

Modifié par BioWareMod05, 23 août 2013 - 04:32 .

[Shadow Fox]

@ cjones91 doesn't matter if he does he still burns down a town.

[dragonflight288]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

Mages treating mundanes as cattle only happens in Tevinter. Most mages aren't like that. The fraternities themselves make it clear that mages aren't unified as a whole in their policies.

If you think all mages want a return to Tevinter, you have to be ignoring cultural and behavioral changes that occur over the separation from Tevinter over the course of 1000 years. Loyalists and Isolationsists want nothing to do with Tevinter at all. Only two fraternities might, and then it would be the extremists among them, Lucrosians, who are about material gains, and Libertarians.

Because the mages aren't really part of a unified order like the Templars, Seekers, Legion of the Dead, or a city-guard, it is not possible to judge them whole-sale without some form of racism coming into play.

All mages are in more danger of demons than regluar people. No one denies this. But the level of that danger, in my opinion, is overblown by the Chantry and the templars. I haven't seen any evidence that they reduce that threat in the Circle system so much as they isolate it while giving themselves supreme power over all mages regardless of how those mages are treated.

With templars, there are a few I really like and respect, Ser Bryant, Ser Otto, Evangeline, and Gregoire looks like a saint compared to Lambert or Meredith given that he'll take the word of Irving over that of Cullen after Broken Circle. But the templars are a military order with a very set chain of command. When there's abuse going on, it's the duty of those in charge to investigate, stop the abuse, and put measured into place to keep it from happening. The templars and Seekers as a whole are unwilling to do this. Apostates are treated like Maleficars, and the Chantry goes out of its way to blur the line between the two. Irving makes it clear in the mage origin that the only way Lily would get punished is if she is caught in the act, whereas mages can get condemned to tranquility or death over rumors and hearsay.

And before anyone talks about the conditions of the circles are so much better than the average person in Thedas, take into account a few things.

One, during the mage origin, we see the enchanters teaching apprentices and we see how spells react to their emotions. One mage is trying to control fire, but starts panicking and sets himself alight. One mage is trying to create a shield, but is so nervous he can barely hold it up while an enchanter is warning him to strengthen his will or likely become prey to a demon. This tells us that mages need to have strong and solid control over their emotions to better control their powers, and increase the likliehood of resisting demons. Unfortunately, the environment the mages live in is hardly one that allows a strong emotional foundation to grow.

Their children are taken away from them as chantry property. They are not allowed to marry unless given special permission. They aren't allowed outside the tower, and if they do go outside without permission, there's a good chance they'll be killed and accused maleficar over it. Heck, according to World of Thedas, the Circle in Rivain was Annulled, not because of blood magic or demons or abuse of power, but beause some mages were keeping in contact with their families. And when an Annullment is called, it is pretty much legal genocide. Every man, woman, and child will be killed. Gaider said specificially that mages who are spared aren't really spared at all. They're made tranquil.

Two. Mages have absolutely no privacy whatsoever, even when passing their Harrowing. In Ferelden, the only mage who seemed to have any form of privacy was the First Enchanter by having his own quarters.

Adding in that lack of privacy is the fact that the templars are always watching. Some mages end up raped by templars, and there's nothing the mage can do about it legally because the Chantry will never take the word of a mage over that of a templar. And when you have a circle like Kirkwall, where there's no evidence that those in charge are doing anything to investigate templars abuse, zealots are promoted over moderates, and sadists like Kerras or Alrik have power over other templars, and the potential and scope of abuse will increase exponentially as well.

I don't care you who are, if you go to someone and say "It's too bad you got raped, but you have three meals a day, a roof over your head, and the chance to get beaten because you talked to a civilian, so you shouldn't complain..." is simply an insensitive jerk....I would use stronger terms but I won't.


If one fears mages and the power they have, that is one thing. But to paint all mages with the brush and say mages want another Tevinter is simply wrong. Because the mages aren't an organized group with specific goals and similar values and priorities, like most military orders, it is impossible to categorize them in such a fashion, whereas it's much easier and more realistic to categorize the militaristic ones. Like so. "The Grey Wardens exist to fight the darkspawn, by any means necessary....including extremities like blood magic." "The Legion of the Dead exists to fight darkspawn, and provide a way for criminals in dwarven society to be pardoned as they'll give their life in the service of Orzammar." Or "The templars seeks to combat magic and abominations."

Mages....can't be put that way in any realistic fashion. And since they cannot, then it is unreasonable to punish them for something that they are not. They're not Magisters. Some may want to be, and those should be watched. Some will become criminals, and after they become criminals, then they should be punished for the crimes they commit. Some will enter a trade. Like the case of a young girl who was able to enchant a sword to be ever-sharp....but how many people can afford a mages elite services like in that case? The tranquil at Ostagar tells us that enchantment is a very time-consuming process, and since it folds lyrium into weapons and armor, also an expensive process, so the price of having it done would only be afforded by nobles or rich merchants, and since so few would be able to afford such services, mages wouldn't be able to get a monopoly in the mercantile world unless they lower the quality to be more affordable to the greater population.

Some mages will be the son/daughters of nobility and would be educated in politics, as most countries in question have laws that keeps mages from inheriting the throne (like nearly every Andrastian nation, one of the reasons why Isolde didn't want to let anyone know that Connor was a mage. One, the circle would take her son and he'd never be allowed to return, and two, she and Eamon would lose their heir) so the chances of mages turning countries like Ferelden or Orlais into Tevinter is extemely unlikely, especially so considering how strong the white chantry's influence (as opposed to the black one of tevinter) is.

[dragonflight288]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

@ cjones91 doesn't matter if he does he still burns down a town.

The exact same thing can be done by a mundane child playing with flint and tinder.

[Shadow Fox]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

@ cjones91 doesn't matter if he does he still burns down a town.

The exact same thing can be done by a mundane child playing with flint and tinder.

Not as easily though.

[Shadow Fox]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed or arrest and place terrorist suspects under constant surveillence and house arrest? 

My God, where is this fantastic place where you live, where none of these things happen? Because it happens on this planet.

Those people aren't imprisoned based on some religion that states they are monsters,mages are locked up for that very reason.

No, mages are locked up because that was the trade off they made.  Something mage supporters gloss over is that the Circle and the Templars were the mages' choice.  The founding principle is simple, magic is dangerous, and the system prior to the Circle addressed this by just telling mages they couldn't use magic unless they were authourised to.  The mages weren't satisfied with this system and protested.  The result was that the mages agreed to be segregated from society, with the Templars to act as guards, in exchange for the freedom to practice magic.

Mages want to have their cake and eat it too, which I get, but it really doesn't benefit anyone other than the mages so I understand people objecting to it.

cjones91 wrote...
There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

Define fair minded.  Also if the group's independent who ensures it's comprised of fair minded individuals?

The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

No they are feared because they are dangerous. And the Mages believe they should rule the world and mundanes are simply cattle to be herded blanket statements are so fun.:innocent:If you believe that you are very naive.

Mages treating mundanes as cattle only happens in Tevinter. Most mages aren't like that. The fraternities themselves make it clear that mages aren't unified as a whole in their policies.

If you think all mages want a return to Tevinter, you have to be ignoring cultural and behavioral changes that occur over the separation from Tevinter over the course of 1000 years. Loyalists and Isolationsists want nothing to do with Tevinter at all. Only two fraternities might, and then it would be the extremists among them, Lucrosians, who are about material gains, and Libertarians.

Because the mages aren't really part of a unified order like the Templars, Seekers, Legion of the Dead, or a city-guard, it is not possible to judge them whole-sale without some form of racism coming into play.

All mages are in more danger of demons than regluar people. No one denies this. But the level of that danger, in my opinion, is overblown by the Chantry and the templars. I haven't seen any evidence that they reduce that threat in the Circle system so much as they isolate it while giving themselves supreme power over all mages regardless of how those mages are treated.

With templars, there are a few I really like and respect, Ser Bryant, Ser Otto, Evangeline, and Gregoire looks like a saint compared to Lambert or Meredith given that he'll take the word of Irving over that of Cullen after Broken Circle. But the templars are a military order with a very set chain of command. When there's abuse going on, it's the duty of those in charge to investigate, stop the abuse, and put measured into place to keep it from happening. The templars and Seekers as a whole are unwilling to do this. Apostates are treated like Maleficars, and the Chantry goes out of its way to blur the line between the two. Irving makes it clear in the mage origin that the only way Lily would get punished is if she is caught in the act, whereas mages can get condemned to tranquility or death over rumors and hearsay.

And before anyone talks about the conditions of the circles are so much better than the average person in Thedas, take into account a few things.

One, during the mage origin, we see the enchanters teaching apprentices and we see how spells react to their emotions. One mage is trying to control fire, but starts panicking and sets himself alight. One mage is trying to create a shield, but is so nervous he can barely hold it up while an enchanter is warning him to strengthen his will or likely become prey to a demon. This tells us that mages need to have strong and solid control over their emotions to better control their powers, and increase the likliehood of resisting demons. Unfortunately, the environment the mages live in is hardly one that allows a strong emotional foundation to grow.

Their children are taken away from them as chantry property. They are not allowed to marry unless given special permission. They aren't allowed outside the tower, and if they do go outside without permission, there's a good chance they'll be killed and accused maleficar over it. Heck, according to World of Thedas, the Circle in Rivain was Annulled, not because of blood magic or demons or abuse of power, but beause some mages were keeping in contact with their families. And when an Annullment is called, it is pretty much legal genocide. Every man, woman, and child will be killed. Gaider said specificially that mages who are spared aren't really spared at all. They're made tranquil.

Two. Mages have absolutely no privacy whatsoever, even when passing their Harrowing. In Ferelden, the only mage who seemed to have any form of privacy was the First Enchanter by having his own quarters.

Adding in that lack of privacy is the fact that the templars are always watching. Some mages end up raped by templars, and there's nothing the mage can do about it legally because the Chantry will never take the word of a mage over that of a templar. And when you have a circle like Kirkwall, where there's no evidence that those in charge are doing anything to investigate templars abuse, zealots are promoted over moderates, and sadists like Kerras or Alrik have power over other templars, and the potential and scope of abuse will increase exponentially as well.

I don't care you who are, if you go to someone and say "It's too bad you got raped, but you have three meals a day, a roof over your head, and the chance to get beaten because you talked to a civilian, so you shouldn't complain..." is simply an insensitive jerk....I would use stronger terms but I won't.


If one fears mages and the power they have, that is one thing. But to paint all mages with the brush and say mages want another Tevinter is simply wrong. Because the mages aren't an organized group with specific goals and similar values and priorities, like most military orders, it is impossible to categorize them in such a fashion, whereas it's much easier and more realistic to categorize the militaristic ones. Like so. "The Grey Wardens exist to fight the darkspawn, by any means necessary....including extremities like blood magic." "The Legion of the Dead exists to fight darkspawn, and provide a way for criminals in dwarven society to be pardoned as they'll give their life in the service of Orzammar." Or "The templars seeks to combat magic and abominations."

Mages....can't be put that way in any realistic fashion. And since they cannot, then it is unreasonable to punish them for something that they are not. They're not Magisters. Some may want to be, and those should be watched. Some will become criminals, and after they become criminals, then they should be punished for the crimes they commit. Some will enter a trade. Like the case of a young girl who was able to enchant a sword to be ever-sharp....but how many people can afford a mages elite services like in that case? The tranquil at Ostagar tells us that enchantment is a very time-consuming process, and since it folds lyrium into weapons and armor, also an expensive process, so the price of having it done would only be afforded by nobles or rich merchants, and since so few would be able to afford such services, mages wouldn't be able to get a monopoly in the mercantile world unless they lower the quality to be more affordable to the greater population.

Some mages will be the son/daughters of nobility and would be educated in politics, as most countries in question have laws that keeps mages from inheriting the throne (like nearly every Andrastian nation, one of the reasons why Isolde didn't want to let anyone know that Connor was a mage. One, the circle would take her son and he'd never be allowed to return, and two, she and Eamon would lose their heir) so the chances of mages turning countries like Ferelden or Orlais into Tevinter is extemely unlikely, especially so considering how strong the white chantry's influence (as opposed to the black one of tevinter) is.

I was making a joke at his expense,Hey I agree just saying they need to be monitered in some way and no solution will be perfect,I agree just saying it's understandable.