1470 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

Zanallen wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

For one I would keep the circles but tell the Chantry to stay the hell away from them.The circles would be a place of learning and mages can go to them of their own free will if they want to control their powers.

Who would then control them? Would they be self regulated? Would they be under the governorship of whatever country they are located in? What happens if the king wants to use the mages housed in his country for his armies?

The inquisitor controls them....(That means "You" soon.)

[Cainhurst Crow]

cjones91 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
Lol. Segregation isn't abuse? Do you hear yourself?

F*ck quarantines to prevent the spreading of dangerous diseases. They are instruments of opression.

So you equate racism to diseases?I would agree if I did'nt know what you really meant.

Is it racism? Ignoring the etymological fallacy here, what would you propose for the mages, with no real training outside the Circle, have instead?

For one I would keep the circles but tell the Chantry to stay the hell away from them.The circles would be a place of learning and mages can go to them of their own free will if they want to control their powers.

And what would they do if they wanted to control their powers but didn't want to go to the Circle?

And if they don't learn to control their powers.... how are they going to learn to control their powers? 

And if they don't have some kind of oversight, who's going to keep them from learning at the Circle and organizing to conquer and dominate?

I don't agree with how overbearing the Chantry is with the mages, but I believe that they are absolutely necessary here in ensuring some kind of oversight and protection that serves both internal and external purposes. 

There would be a independant group that would oversee the circles,this group will be comprised of fair minded templars and mages.They will see to handling matters within the Circles so the Chantry can screw off for all I care.

You think that will stop abuses of power from occuring with corrupt members? Who exactly does this third group answer to?

The arls and rulers.

Oh that's great, so when the arl's brothers nephew in law decides to make a hot mage tranquil to make her a sex toy, the arl can bail him out of trouble. Also glad to know that mages will now be little more than weapons of politics and war for countires to use against eachother.

Because folks like arl howe were so trustworthy and noble, or the noble from the elf commoner story.

[dragonflight288]

I was making a joke at his expense,Hey I agree just saying they need to
be monitered in some way and no solution will be perfect,I agree just
saying it's understandable.

Oh. My bad. Darn internet not giving me proper inflection. *grumble grumble* lol

Modifié par dragonflight288, 23 août 2013 - 06:54 .

[Shadow Fox]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I was making a joke at his expense,Hey I agree just saying they need to
be monitered in some way and no solution will be perfect,I agree just
saying it's understandable.

Oh. My bad. Darn internet not giving me proper inflection. *grumble grumble* lol

Hence blanket statements are fun.

[DPSSOC]

cjones91 wrote...
The mages wanted a place where they can study magic without any trouble,however that was centuries ago and the Chantry has seen to it that mages are reviled simply because of the way they were born.

Which I agree sucks, and really should change, but that doesn't alter the fact that the Circle was something the Mages chose.  They accepted, at the time anyway I recognize attitudes have probably changed, that they couldn't have freedom of mobility and freedom of practice and chose practice.

cjones91 wrote...
The templars believe they have divine right to do whatever they want to the mages which include raping,killing,beating,and torturing them.

Some do yes, but it's not like it's a policy of the Order.  Templars need better oversight, I agree, but just because corrupt police and prison guards exist doesn't mean we tear down the penal system.

cjones91 wrote...
Since the independant group will consist of people of all walks of life there would be no hidden agendas and those that do have them would be overruled and replaced.

You said fair minded Mages and Templars, that's not all walks of life that's two.  Also, PTA's have hidden agendas, just think about that.

cjones91 wrote...
I never said there were'nt any,however I don't condemn all mages just because some of them are evil.

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

[Dermain]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Not as easily though.

Really? Let's take the Great London fire of 1666 into account. A fire started in a bakery which then burned down the central parts of the city. There are a ton of devastating fire stories throughout history easily started through different means. An untrained mage child most likely has the same likelihood of starting a fire as the local blacksmith.

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed

Most mentally ill are not watched over in a satisfactory institution. In many cases the Western world has deemed it better to release them to their families, who are NOT trained to be able to treat the mentally ill at all. The process of deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill has released many mentally ill people into society where they should not be. It saves the governments money at the risk of sending potentially dangerous people into our society. If we were to compare this to Dragon Age it would be like sending the mages that are the most at risk of being possessed out into society to blow up in a helpless crowd. 

cjones91 wrote...

The arls and rulers.

That is entirely naive, and not how the situation would actually work.

[Xilizhra]

Some do yes, but it's not like it's a policy of the Order. Templars need better oversight, I agree, but just because corrupt police and prison guards exist doesn't mean we tear down the penal system.

We don't, however, make bigotry part of standard education for said guards and have them all be drug-addled soldiers of a grasping religious institution.

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

[Ausstig]

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

[Xilizhra]

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

It's not about protection, but domination. Little is more hypocritical than mages' alleged protectors actually throwing them to demons outright.

[cjones91]

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

If the templars/Chantry really wanted to protect people then they should educate them instead of keeping the people in fear,and Kirkwall was Meredith's fault anyway since she became a despot and violated the "templars can't rule" policy.

[cjones91]

Xilizhra wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

It's not about protection, but domination. Little is more hypocritical than mages' alleged protectors actually throwing them to demons outright.

It's kind of funny when you think about it,the templars cause mages to be possessed by constantly mistreating them and yet they don't realize their behaviour often causes the problem the templars are supposed to prevent.

[Cheylus]

Still discussing the templars/mages thing? The game was designed to make this debate endless.

If you forget one second the conflict itself, there are heavy consequences with the destruction of the circles and the downfall of the Templar order that need to be adressed to preserve both mages and people in general in Thedas. I hope DA:I will answer that.

> As far as I know, in 9:40, no one is trained to resist and to counter magic, Templars apart.
I have a genuine question for people who didn't think the Templar order was necessary: don't you think Thedas need a "special force" of some kind anyway, built specifically to counter some users and effects of magic?

> I also hope mages will still be able to learn to control their powers, and not every mage can do that by themself or within their home or family. I also think this kind of education has to be compulsory. So an institution is needed for that anyway. Since the learning and teaching of magic is as dangerous as letting pupils play with dynamite in their biology class, this institution need, in my opinion, to be directed by strong, reliable mages and people trained to counter magic.
Don't you think a specific, compulsory education is needed for mages?

Modifié par Cheylus, 23 août 2013 - 01:23 .

[Shadow Fox]

Myrkale wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Not as easily though.

Really? Let's take the Great London fire of 1666 into account. A fire started in a bakery which then burned down the central parts of the city. There are a ton of devastating fire stories throughout history easily started through different means. An untrained mage child most likely has the same likelihood of starting a fire as the local blacksmith.

billy the squid wrote...
What? ?You mean we don't institutionalise the mentaly disturbed

Most mentally ill are not watched over in a satisfactory institution. In many cases the Western world has deemed it better to release them to their families, who are NOT trained to be able to treat the mentally ill at all. The process of deinstitutionalisation of the mentally ill has released many mentally ill people into society where they should not be. It saves the governments money at the risk of sending potentially dangerous people into our society. If we were to compare this to Dragon Age it would be like sending the mages that are the most at risk of being possessed out into society to blow up in a helpless crowd. 

cjones91 wrote...

The arls and rulers.

That is entirely naive, and not how the situation would actually work.

My point is a child has to find materials to start a fire a mage doesn't.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

If the templars/Chantry really wanted to protect people then they should educate them instead of keeping the people in fear,and Kirkwall was Meredith's fault anyway since she became a despot and violated the "templars can't rule" policy.

If Osirno had done his job she might not have.

[Shadow Fox]

cjones91 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

It's not about protection, but domination. Little is more hypocritical than mages' alleged protectors actually throwing them to demons outright.

It's kind of funny when you think about it,the templars cause mages to be possessed by constantly mistreating them and yet they don't realize their behaviour often causes the problem the templars are supposed to prevent.

Or a mage just disregards their warnings and decides to risk posession out of arrogance*Merrill*,learns blood magic out of a desire for power*Jowan* ,consorts with a demon out of ignorance*Conner* or decides they have the right to rule humanity*Tevinter*.<_<

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 23 août 2013 - 07:15 .

[leaguer of one]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

If the templars/Chantry really wanted to protect people then they should educate them instead of keeping the people in fear,and Kirkwall was Meredith's fault anyway since she became a despot and violated the "templars can't rule" policy.

If Osirno had done his job she might not have.

Had Osirno not became part of the blood mages she might not of had to.

[leaguer of one]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Far from it.

[Barquiel]

Ausstig wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But Templars you're perfectly fine with?

The Templar Order is fundamentally evil.

Yeah protecting people from tha dangers of magic and daemons (including mages) there is NOTHING more evil then trying to PROTECT people. 

Mages should be free to use their powers to kill and enslave anyone they want. And be taken over by daemons whenever they feel like, Kirkwall was slow. 

I guess religious fanatics who think having magic is a curse are simply not the best protectors...

[In Exile]

Xilizhra wrote...
We don't, however, make bigotry part of standard education for said guards and have them all be drug-addled soldiers of a grasping religious institution.

No, but in the real world it isn't uncommon for prison guards to have less than savory beliefs because of the demographics of the guard population and the demographics of the prison population. 

There are also serious power dynamic problems with just being a prison guard that arguably greatly increase the incidence of abuse. 

[dragonflight288]

In Exile wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
We don't, however, make bigotry part of standard education for said guards and have them all be drug-addled soldiers of a grasping religious institution.

No, but in the real world it isn't uncommon for prison guards to have less than savory beliefs because of the demographics of the guard population and the demographics of the prison population. 

There are also serious power dynamic problems with just being a prison guard that arguably greatly increase the incidence of abuse. 

Add in that most templars genuinely believe that they have dominion over all mages by divine right, and therefore their treatment of mages is holy and cannot be questioned.

[MisterJB]

Barquiel wrote...
I guess religious fanatics who think having magic is a curse are simply not the best protectors...

Actually, ignoring for a second your implication, those would be far better protectors. I would feel much safer with more Alriks in the Templars than with Thrasks.
Sure, Alrik was a damn creep who was going to hurt, at least, one innocent mage and was taking advantage of Tranquils but at least there is no chance of him being corrupted by gold or of being fooled by an innocent face "No, sir templar, I'm an harmless mage.". Thrask couldn't even tell his co-conspirator was an Abomination and allowed the mages under his charge to use blood magic.

Speaking from a non-mage perspective, of course.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 août 2013 - 08:46 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
I guess religious fanatics who think having magic is a curse are simply not the best protectors...

Actually, ignoring for a second your implication, those would be far better protectors. I would feel much safer with more Alriks in the Templars than with Thrasks.
Sure, Alrik was a damn creep who was going to hurt, at least, one innocent mage and was taking advantage of Tranquils but at least there is no chance of him being corrupted by gold or of being fooled by an innocent face "No, sir templar, I'm an harmless mage.". Thrask couldn't even tell his co-conspirator was an Abomination and allowed the mages under his charge to use blood magic.

Hahaha no please somone who is already corrupted and don't have nothing against rape don't take money to improve own life guy clearly don't care about law anyway so he don't take money for brakeing law please...
It seems you need one year or two with someone like sir arlic having complete authority above you and after that you will beg to take this man.

[DKJaigen]

MisterJB wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
I guess religious fanatics who think having magic is a curse are simply not the best protectors...

Actually, ignoring for a second your implication, those would be far better protectors. I would feel much safer with more Alriks in the Templars than with Thrasks.
Sure, Alrik was a damn creep who was going to hurt, at least, one innocent mage and was taking advantage of Tranquils but at least there is no chance of him being corrupted by gold or of being fooled by an innocent face "No, sir templar, I'm an harmless mage.". Thrask couldn't even tell his co-conspirator was an Abomination and allowed the mages under his charge to use blood magic.

Speaking from a non-mage perspective, of course.

Oh god you support a sexual sadist that is a textobook example of corruption and abusement of power over a man who is moderate and seeks to bring peace between the 2 factions? Your nuts mate! If all non mages believed that mages should be completely justified to commit genocide on the mundanes because every single munane is a frigging adolf hitler.

And cases like alrik doesnt bring peace. cases like alrik caused the templar/mage war.

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
I guess religious fanatics who think having magic is a curse are simply not the best protectors...

Actually, ignoring for a second your implication, those would be far better protectors. I would feel much safer with more Alriks in the Templars than with Thrasks.
Sure, Alrik was a damn creep who was going to hurt, at least, one innocent mage and was taking advantage of Tranquils but at least there is no chance of him being corrupted by gold or of being fooled by an innocent face "No, sir templar, I'm an harmless mage.". Thrask couldn't even tell his co-conspirator was an Abomination and allowed the mages under his charge to use blood magic.

Speaking from a non-mage perspective, of course.

You would rather have a rapist as protectors?I don't even know what to say except that is just.....insane.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Barquiel wrote...
I guess religious fanatics who think having magic is a curse are simply not the best protectors...

Actually, ignoring for a second your implication, those would be far better protectors. I would feel much safer with more Alriks in the Templars than with Thrasks.
Sure, Alrik was a damn creep who was going to hurt, at least, one innocent mage and was taking advantage of Tranquils but at least there is no chance of him being corrupted by gold or of being fooled by an innocent face "No, sir templar, I'm an harmless mage.". Thrask couldn't even tell his co-conspirator was an Abomination and allowed the mages under his charge to use blood magic.

Speaking from a non-mage perspective, of course.

You would rather have a rapist as protectors?I don't even know what to say except that is just.....insane.

Shall I describe to you what armies have done to enemy civillian populations since time immemorial? And yet people rely on them for protection and when they come home to their wives and children, they are lauded as heroes.
It's really nothing outwordly.