1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

The fact that the orlesians don't have dedicated forces whose job it is to sneak into other countries, kidnap people of said country, and drag them back to orlais on ships in order to make them servants, speaks volumes about how much worse tevinter is. How many orlesian slavers have we run into? How many tevinter slavers have we run into?

And what the heck was that argument about wynne even about? Yeah, she turned out good, but an exception doesn't break the rule, merely show that there is no such thing as a 100% case without a .001% chance of deviation.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

"Most nobles treat them decently" yes most nobles treat them decently taking into account most nobles are bastards who will backstab you. Taht should be most nobles treat them decently when others look not treat them decently everytime.When no one see they kill each other but did person who noted that saw how they thread them when there is no no one there? Most noble is nice and cultural when others noobles look on them...

Did Caladrius killed his peoples not... did prosper killed his peoples well yes he betrayed them and again about "servants" http://dragonage.wik...f_Chateau_Haine yes they treat them very well xD i wish be one of them.

If you're going to ignore my codex entry, why should I pay any attention to yours? There's nothing in your that entry except a Ferelden laborer fell down a hill by accident. It doesn't describe Orlesian nobles doing anything.

Also Caladrius offered to kill every elf he captured to bribe the Warden. He's one of the worst examples you could use to imply that magisters don't wantonly sacrifice their slaves. My point was Hadrianna killed her slaves because they strengthened her through blood magic. Orlesians nobles like Prosper cannot do this. So killing their slaves gians them nothing.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 27 août 2013 - 07:38 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The fact that the orlesians don't have dedicated forces whose job it is to sneak into other countries, kidnap people of said country, and drag them back to orlais on ships in order to make them servants, speaks volumes about how much worse tevinter is. How many orlesian slavers have we run into? How many tevinter slavers have we run into?

And what the heck was that argument about wynne even about? Yeah, she turned out good, but an exception doesn't break the rule, merely show that there is no such thing as a 100% case without a .001% chance of deviation.

How many bards we seen in game two does that mean they are only few bards?

You mean fenris he was special danarius want him back i I doubt very much that somone will bother for one slave who escaped unless they have preferences.

Dragon age redemption tallis talk about noble...

And now we have chivalries who can do what they want so i doubt that they can't have slaves.

[Barquiel]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No but it is a hopelessly corrupt magocracy where the entire ruling class brutally dominates the lower classes with impunity.

I don't see how semi-autonomous circles without Chantry and templar oversight automatically lead to a magocracy.

My point is that we don't need a powerful templar order to prevent mages from turning into abominations. Tevinter, for all its horrors, isn't overrun by demons -> mages can police themselves...and do so outside the Chantry.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

"Most nobles treat them
decently" yes most nobles treat them decently taking into account most
nobles are bastards who will backstab you. Taht should be most nobles
treat them decently when others look not treat them decently
everytime.When no one see they kill each other but did person who noted
that saw how they thread them when there is no no one there? Most noble
is nice and cultural when others noobles look on them...

Did
Caladrius killed his peoples not... did prosper killed his peoples well
yes he betrayed them and again about "servants"
http://dragonage.wik...f_Chateau_Haine
yes they treat them very well xD i wish be one of them.

If you're going to ignore my codex entry, why should I pay any attention to yours? There's nothing in your that entry except a Ferelden laborer fell down a hill by accident. It doesn't describe Orlesian nobles doing anything.

Also Caladrius offered to kill every elf he captured to bribe the Warden. He's one of the worst examples you could use to imply that magisters don't wantonly sacrifice their slaves.

It says how they care about them and how they care about that they are treated now maybe they don't want see servant bing killed by prosper but prosper would killing them in his mansion no one would care. 

Because your codex entry isn't witness he describes what they threat them when they was looking my codex well descirbes one of the nobles and how they care about servants . I don't say they don't want sacrifice their slaves but i doubt that prosper had dilemma about it when his servants die delivering something or when she send to die his peoples and caladrius killed not own peoples and only when situation forced him.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Barquiel wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No but it is a hopelessly corrupt magocracy where the entire ruling class brutally dominates the lower classes with impunity.

I don't see how semi-autonomous circles without Chantry and templar oversight automatically lead to a magocracy.

My point is that we don't need a powerful templar order to prevent mages from turning into abominations. Tevinter, for all its horrors, isn't overrun by demons -> mages can police themselves...and do so outside the Chantry.

But most of Tevinters horrors are a result of mages failing to police themselves. Being overrun by abominations isn't the only fear that people with the Templar perspective have.

If another Imperium would be the result of freeing mages is the big question. Nobody knows. But fear Tevinter is just as valid as fear of abominations in the Chantry's eyes.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 27 août 2013 - 07:48 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The fact that the orlesians don't have dedicated forces whose job it is to sneak into other countries, kidnap people of said country, and drag them back to orlais on ships in order to make them servants, speaks volumes about how much worse tevinter is. How many orlesian slavers have we run into? How many tevinter slavers have we run into?

And what the heck was that argument about wynne even about? Yeah, she turned out good, but an exception doesn't break the rule, merely show that there is no such thing as a 100% case without a .001% chance of deviation.

How many bards we seen in game two does that mean they are only few bards?

You mean fenris he was special danarius want him back i I doubt very much that somone will bother for one slave who escaped unless they have preferences.

Dragon age redemption tallis talk about noble...

And now we have chivalries who can do what they want so i doubt that they can't have slaves.

That fact we had a runin with 2 large slaving cells, in two different countries, outside of tevinters boarders, both practicing kidnapping citizens of that country in order to bring them to tevinter to be slaves. And we have neither meet, fought, or read about, orlesians doing anything close to that, shows that tevinter is worse.

Can you not even see that kidnapping foreigners to use as slave labor might be a sign that this country is worse?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

It says how they care about them and how they care about that they are treated now maybe they don't want see servant bing killed by prosper but prosper would killing them in his mansion no one would care. 

Because your codex entry isn't witness he describes what they threat them when they was looking my codex well descirbes one of the nobles and how they care about servants . I don't say they don't want sacrifice their slaves but i doubt that prosper had dilemma about it when his servants die delivering something or when she send to die his peoples and caladrius killed not own peoples and only when situation forced him.

No but it's worse in Tevinter becuase sacrificing slaves happens much more often. In Tevinter it benefits the magisters to kill them because they can gain more strength from it. In Orlais it benefits the nobles to keep them healthy because they want to maintain the illusion.

Because the situation forced him? He's a slaver kidnapping people from their homes! The fact that he can and will do that sort of thing when people try to stop him is exactly the reason that Tevinter is worse.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 27 août 2013 - 07:57 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The fact that the orlesians don't have dedicated forces whose job it is to sneak into other countries, kidnap people of said country, and drag them back to orlais on ships in order to make them servants, speaks volumes about how much worse tevinter is. How many orlesian slavers have we run into? How many tevinter slavers have we run into?

And what the heck was that argument about wynne even about? Yeah, she turned out good, but an exception doesn't break the rule, merely show that there is no such thing as a 100% case without a .001% chance of deviation.

How many bards we seen in game two does that mean they are only few bards?

You mean fenris he was special danarius want him back i I doubt very much that somone will bother for one slave who escaped unless they have preferences.

Dragon age redemption tallis talk about noble...

And now we have chivalries who can do what they want so i doubt that they can't have slaves.

That fact we had a runin with 2 large slaving cells, in two different countries, outside of tevinters boarders, both practicing kidnapping citizens of that country in order to bring them to tevinter to be slaves. And we have neither meet, fought, or read about, orlesians doing anything close to that, shows that tevinter is worse.

Can you not even see that kidnapping foreigners to use as slave labor might be a sign that this country is worse?

Well loghain made deal with them no one seemed care about elves they had money as well they could be slavers from other country but they had probably best offer for loghain.Do we see any orlesian nobles that kill in game not rly do we fought with or see antivian slavers not at all. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

It says how they care about them and how they care about that they are treated now maybe they don't want see servant bing killed by prosper but prosper would killing them in his mansion no one would care. 

Because your codex entry isn't witness he describes what they threat them when they was looking my codex well descirbes one of the nobles and how they care about servants . I don't say they don't want sacrifice their slaves but i doubt that prosper had dilemma about it when his servants die delivering something or when she send to die his peoples and caladrius killed not own peoples and only when situation forced him.

No but it's worse in Tevinter becuase sacrificing slaves happens much more often. Becuase in Tevinter because it benefits the magisters to kill them because they can gain more strength from it. In Orlais it benefits the nobles to keep them healthy because they want to maintain the illusion.

Because the situation forced him? He's a slaver kidnapping people from their homes! The fact that he can and will do that sort of thing when people try to stop him is exactly the reason that Tevinter is worse.

So what we talking about sacrifice them or kidnapping them not forget they had free hand because no one seems to care about elves and even they were allowed lol what slaver didn't do that where they are invited and without consequences enslave others. 

illusion what exist only at parties my dear friend after them no one care that same for blood mages in tevinter illusion to the end of party then what you do in your basement doesn;t bother anyone.

[Cainhurst Crow]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The fact that the orlesians don't have dedicated forces whose job it is to sneak into other countries, kidnap people of said country, and drag them back to orlais on ships in order to make them servants, speaks volumes about how much worse tevinter is. How many orlesian slavers have we run into? How many tevinter slavers have we run into?

And what the heck was that argument about wynne even about? Yeah, she turned out good, but an exception doesn't break the rule, merely show that there is no such thing as a 100% case without a .001% chance of deviation.

How many bards we seen in game two does that mean they are only few bards?

You mean fenris he was special danarius want him back i I doubt very much that somone will bother for one slave who escaped unless they have preferences.

Dragon age redemption tallis talk about noble...

And now we have chivalries who can do what they want so i doubt that they can't have slaves.

That fact we had a runin with 2 large slaving cells, in two different countries, outside of tevinters boarders, both practicing kidnapping citizens of that country in order to bring them to tevinter to be slaves. And we have neither meet, fought, or read about, orlesians doing anything close to that, shows that tevinter is worse.

Can you not even see that kidnapping foreigners to use as slave labor might be a sign that this country is worse?

Well loghain made deal with them no one seemed care about elves they had money as well they could be slavers from other country but they had probably best offer for loghain.Do we see any orlesian nobles that kill in game not rly do we fought with or see antivian slavers not at all. 

We at least hear about them in game. We don't even hear about orlais using outside country kidnapped people for their servants.

You can go on your little speil all you want about how much worse orlais is to tevinter, but you have repeatidly been shown evidence that contradicts your point, even your own evidence seems to contradict what you say.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 27 août 2013 - 08:23 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

We don't also hear about antivian using outside country kidnapping peoples but we know that antiva is fond of slavery very fond. If we talking about nobles who have slaves in orlais yes we heard about them.

You don't even understand what i m saying or about what debate goes on you think that i want to prove that orlais is worse than tevinter well i think that should be enough.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

illusion what exist only at parties my dear friend after them no one care that same for blood mages in tevinter illusion to the end of party then what you do in your basement doesn;t bother anyone.

You don't know this. I believe the implication from Leliana and the codex was that the nobles were even trying to fool themselves that there is no form of slavery in Orlais. As such it would behoove them to treat elven servants as gently as possible at all times.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

illusion what exist only at parties my dear friend after them no one care that same for blood mages in tevinter illusion to the end of party then what you do in your basement doesn;t bother anyone.

You don't know this. I believe the implication from Leliana and the codex was that the nobles were even trying to fool themselves that there is no form of slavery in Orlais. As such it would behoove them to treat elven servants as gently as possible at all times.

Leliana lived in illusion sadly and she ended bad because of this she was tool and thought that game is only fun even leliana is bigot and don;t know about it to the point we open her eyes.Yes treat them well when others see that well when you don't see. I could acusse you that you don't know that nobles kill slave just for the hell in tevinter because you seen maybe two or three examples but i belive in that in mostly magister are bastards as well like nobles in orlais.    

[Jedi Master of Orion]

We've seen AND heard of many examples of Tevinters killing slaves just because. We have not seen similar examples in Orlais. They aren't depicted as equivalent.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

We've seen AND heard of many examples of Tevinters killing slaves just because. We have not seen similar examples in Orlais. They aren't depicted as equivalent.

When? 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Fenris describes Danarius killing a little boy to impress his friends.
World of Thedas describes a Magister killing her kitchen slave.
Hadrianna killed her slaves to protect herself from Fenris.
Caladrius offered to kill all the elves he enslaved.
The codex I cited earlier says they are used in blood magic rituals.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Fenris describes Danarius killing a little boy to impress his friends.
World of Thedas describes a Magister killing her kitchen slave.
Hadrianna killed her slaves to protect herself from Fenris.
Caladrius offered to kill all the elves he enslaved.
The codex I cited earlier says they are used in blood magic rituals.

"many examples of Tevinters killing slaves just because"

"to protect herself from Fenris"

"Caladrius offered to kill all the elves he enslaved" he wanted live that was just not because other guy could propose you sharing profits or giving you slave.

"they are used in blood magic rituals" not so just because:)?

So now we have two examples and magisters who killed their slaves just because well i belive that what you wrote is truth but you have only two examples.

Can you also tell me about it with kitchen slave i don't have it so i will glady expand my knowledge

About orlesians well they send their servants along with dogs to hunt wyvern xD http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Wyvern

 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 27 août 2013 - 11:43 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I never considered them good reasons to kill somebody. But really if the magisters have "reasons" to kill their slaves, that just makes Tevinter worse. In fact that was my whole point. They have reasons to abuse their slaves that Orlesians don't so they have many more slaves and kill many more slaves. Lots of people participate in the Wyvern Hunt, your not seriously suggesting that's just as bad as being bled to death to feed magisters' vanity are you?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I never considered them good reasons to kill somebody. But really if the magisters have "reasons" to kill their slaves, that just makes Tevinter worse. In fact that was my whole point. They have reasons to abuse their slaves that Orlesians don't so they have many more slaves and kill many more slaves. Lots of people participate in the Wyvern Hunt, your not seriously suggesting that's just as bad as being bled to death to feed magisters' vanity are you?

Well being malicious arrogant noble **** isn't enough reason to bully your servant because orlesian system works on that?

"Lots of people participate in the Wyvern Hunt, your not seriously
suggesting that's just as bad as being bled to death to feed magisters'
vanity are you?"

Well lets say that i wouldn't care about whether i will be killed by blood magic or huge monster who will eat me both fates are something that I would like to avoid and well if you are elf you are practically your only alternatives are rot in alienage or try find dalish clan but society paint them as monsters so...

And well skip that what orlesians did in ferelden...:innocent:

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Anyone who hunts for Wyverns needs to be trained in hunting and have a chance at succeeding, otherwise the nobles get no credit for capturing or killing one. Not everyone who works for an Orlesian noble is a virtual slave. The inequality gap between the higher and lower classes is much greater in the Imperium as well. Two codex entries mention it.

How about what the Imperium did to Arlathan? It's worse than what the Orlesians did to Ferelden and the Dales combined. The Imperium once spread across almost all of Thedas in it's glory days, as such any examples of expansionism Orlais has in it's history will be less than Tevinter's.

[Ausstig]

Barquiel wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

No but it is a hopelessly corrupt magocracy where the entire ruling class brutally dominates the lower classes with impunity.

1. I don't see how semi-autonomous circles without Chantry and templar oversight automatically lead to a magocracy.

My point is that we don't need a powerful templar order to prevent mages from turning into abominations. Tevinter, for all its horrors, isn't overrun by demons -> mages can police themselves...and do so outside the Chantry.

1. It will not happen overnight, some battles are lost by inches. It my will go with one compromise after another. It will happen so slowly you will not even notice.

Also given Tivinter is full of blood riturals I would not call that 'policeing themselves' 

[Shadow Fox]

Surprised this ain't closed yet.

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Anyone who hunts for Wyverns needs to be trained in hunting and have a chance at succeeding, otherwise the nobles get no credit for capturing or killing one. Not everyone who works for an Orlesian noble is a virtual slave. The inequality gap between the higher and lower classes is much greater in the Imperium as well. Two codex entries mention it.

How about what the Imperium did to Arlathan? It's worse than what the Orlesians did to Ferelden and the Dales combined. The Imperium once spread across almost all of Thedas in it's glory days, as such any examples of expansionism Orlais has in it's history will be less than Tevinter's.

Orlais is just like Tevinter in being corrupt,the difference is in Tevinter the nobles are mages and they don't try to hide their corruption like Orlais does.

Modifié par cjones91, 28 août 2013 - 12:18 .

[leaguer of one]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Surprised this ain't closed yet.

Not enough mud throwing.