1470 réponses à ce sujet

[l7986]

Mmm I just say drown all babies found senstive to magic at birth and we avoid all the trouble related to mages.

[BlueMagitek]

leaguer of one wrote...

Which is why showing mages are not monster is so important. I'm not say there should not be any regulation. Just not one as extreme as the one we  have now. Banning mages  from using healing mage does not help as well as pointless restrictions.

Oh, I agree, mages need a better PR guy.

But here's the thing.  There is no "Mages" faction.  Not really.  Maybe it will change in DA:I, but as of now, there are (at least) : 

Circle Mages
Apostates
Dalish Mages
Tevinter Mages (& Magisters)
Seers
Witches

Inside the Circle mages, there are an additional 6 factions (the 5 fraternities and the unaffiliated).  Dalish Keepers, at least, are nations unto their own in how they act.  Magisters so far seem to be just about universally evil.  Seers allow themselves to become abominations.

Ideally, a person would be able to tell that a single representative of a group doesn't stand for the whole, but this is Thedas.  What do you think a commoner will think when a Magister enslaves half of his village?

[Plaintiff]

EJ107 wrote...
Blowing up the chantry is an act of terrorism. If you're condoning it then you're condoning an act of terrorism. I'm sorry if you find that insulting, but it is true.

I don't consider the attack on the Chantry to be an act of terrorism, and "terrorism" is not always wrong. So there. 

And Anders knew this how? 

He didn't. He just didn't care.

He cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse. She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

By that logic no mage should be allowed an opinion on the matter. They are too close to the issue, being mages themselves.

I didn't say Meredith can't have an opinion. Are you even reading my posts?

So he commits suicide and takes out the entire city with him. And you're justifying that.

The whole city? He's a harvester, not Godzilla.

He can commit suicide if he wants, it's his body.

He killed himself and his friends in order to get revenge on the templars in death, and potentially kill dozens more in the process. How is that protecting the life or liberty of anyone?!

His friends were already dead. He used his life to buy other mages time to flee. That's how he protected their lives and liberty from the Templars that would murder them.

If their loved ones are criminals then I see no problem with it.

Derp.

In many countries it's illegal to be gay. Do people deserve to be executed for harboring gay family members? Guess so, because they're "criminals"!

We should never ever question the law under any circumstance. We should all just blindly follow it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 août 2013 - 02:19 .

[sandalisthemaker]

l7986 wrote...

Mmm I just say drown all babies found senstive to magic at birth and we avoid all the trouble related to mages.

Infanticide is never a viable option. Besides, people don't show signs of being a mage until they hit puberty.

[BlueMagitek]

Orsino unleashed a Harvester. There really isn't a justification for that, considering it would almost certainly have slaughtered half the city if Hawke had not been there.

[Ausstig]

[quote]Plaintiff wrote...

[quote]MisterJB wrote...
[quote]If she is aiding a fugitive from the law, then she stops being a civillian and becomes a collaborator which is a crime in any country in the world.[/quote]
So ****ing what? The law of Thedas is corrupt and worthless.
[quote]
[/quote][/quote]




Dud that's the law EVERY WHERE. Aiding and abetting criminals is an illegal action. Perhaps you feel they would be better without laws? So mages could mind control you? Or worse haveno knowlage of how to control their powers like Conner? Would you like that more?

Templars serve a vaild and important role, it's people here don't seem to get that. 

Modifié par Ausstig, 20 août 2013 - 02:27 .

[Ianamus]

Plaintiff wrote...

He cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse. She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

Being inept doesn't mean your deserve death. 

And what about the priests? As a previous poster brought up, Hawke can specifically say when confronting Anders afterwards that he "Killed innocent priests" Elthina was not the only one there by a long shot.

The whole city? He's a harvester, not Godzilla.

Lore-wise a single abomination can kill 70 people. With both the mages and the Templars dead there would be nothing to stop it from destorying Kirkwall.

Plaintiff wrote...
His friends were already dead. He used his life to buy other mages time to flee. That's how he protected their lives and liberty from the Templars that would murder them.

He calls them "willing sacrifices". Doesnt sound like they were already dead to me. I also saw no mages fleeing other than the ones that surrender to you. It was a petty attempt at revenge, nothing more.

Plaintiff wrote...
In many countries it's illegal to be gay. Do people deserve to be executed for harboring gay family members? Guess so, because they're "criminals"!

We should never ever question the law under any circumstance. We should all just blindly follow it.

I don't agree with all of Theda's laws. I was just proving the point that the Templars never harmed civilians, only those harboring mages. The mages on the other hand...

Modifié par EJ107, 20 août 2013 - 02:30 .

[Plaintiff]

Ausstig wrote...
Dud that's the law EVERY WHERE. Aiding and abetting criminals is an illegal action.

And what causes a person to be labelled a "criminal"? It varies from place to place. It can be a legitimtely harmful action, like murder, or it can be something stupid, like kissing a member of the same sex.

If people blindly follow the law just because "it's the law", then screw them. I have no patience or sympathy for people who fail to question the pernicious and unjust aspects of the society in which they live.

Perhaps you feel they would be better without laws? So mages could mind control you? Or worse haveno knowlage of how to control their powers like Conner? Would you like that more?

"You recognize that the system has glaring problems, so obviously you must support violent anarchy."

Because those are the only two options, right? Derp.

Templars serve a vaild and important role, it's people here don't seem to get that.

The Templars are at least as responsible for the destruction of the system as everyone else. They made themselves obsolete when they declared war.

[AresKeith]

Plaintiff wrote...

He cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse. She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

She wanted to appease both sides and not choose

If she picked a side then the conflict would've sparked anyway

[Taleroth]

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

He cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse. She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

She wanted to appease both sides and not choose

If she picked a side then the conflict would've sparked anyway

Conflict schmonflict. The entire city should have been burned to the ground.

If Anders committed a crime it was thinking small.

[Palidane]

Taleroth wrote...
Conflict schmonflict. The entire city should have been burned to the ground.

If Anders committed a crime it was thinking small.

Uhh, wow. Doesn't that seem a bit extreme?

[leaguer of one]

l7986 wrote...

Mmm I just say drown all babies found senstive to magic at birth and we avoid all the trouble related to mages.

The problem with that is:
a. Your killing innocent children.
b. You only find out they are mages when they are adolecesnce.

[leaguer of one]

Palidane wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
Conflict schmonflict. The entire city should have been burned to the ground.

If Anders committed a crime it was thinking small.

Uhh, wow. Doesn't that seem a bit extreme?

Well, with the people gone from the city first. The veil is thin there. Demons pop out just like that.

[Xilizhra]

DPSSOC wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Because they don't gain anything by proving them right.  If I've got a reputation and people treat me like a brutish thug I do not improve my lot by acting like a brutish thug.  The mages greatest fight, and one they are going to lose based on most of their attitudes and actions, is one of hearts and minds.  If they don't rise above people's expectations of them they will only breed more resentment, hatred, and fear and the whole thing starts over again.

Thankfully, the templars' betrayal of the Chantry, as well as simple time, has given them an edge here. It's not a lost cause by any means.

I don't see how the Templars behaviour changes things for the mages in this regard.  No matter how bad the Templars get it's not going to change the public perception of mages.  If mages continue on as they have in the past 2 games they are not going to win anyone over.  Now I haven't read the books so maybe there are more mages portrayed as more personable, compassionate, or even just considerate.  Not to mention Anders set up a pretty big hurdle, cause now any mage who seems genuinely decent and helpful might just be another monster biding their time.

In short: Anders was glossed over by history and the actual war was kicked off by templars attacking a meeting of Enchanters in Orlais. But to know more, we really have to see DAI.

[Ausstig]

Plaintiff wrote...

Ausstig wrote...
Dud that's the law EVERY WHERE. Aiding and abetting criminals is an illegal action.

And what causes a person to be labelled a "criminal"? It varies from place to place. It can be a legitimtely harmful action, like murder, or it can be something stupid, like kissing a member of the same sex.

If people blindly follow the law just because "it's the law", then screw them. I have no patience or sympathy for people who fail to question the pernicious and unjust aspects of the society in which they live.

Perhaps you feel they would be better without laws? So mages could mind control you? Or worse haveno knowlage of how to control their powers like Conner? Would you like that more?

"You recognize that the system has glaring problems, so obviously you must support violent anarchy."

Because those are the only two options, right? Derp.

Templars serve a vaild and important role, it's people here don't seem to get that.

The Templars are at least as responsible for the destruction of the system as everyone else. They made themselves obsolete when they declared war.

yes but unlike homosexuals Mages have mind control powers and abominations have destructive power on the same scale as natural disasters. If people like that existed in the real world would be fine with them walking down the street? 

Well what do you suggest? 

The mages left to go off and broke the system, the Templars are doing as they have always done, protect people from mages, including mages themselves. It was a close vote to leave, how do those mages who didn't want to leave feel? 

[Xilizhra]

yes but unlike homosexuals Mages have mind control powers and abominations have destructive power on the same scale as natural disasters. If people like that existed in the real world would be fine with them walking down the street?

Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

The mages left to go off and broke the system, the Templars are doing as they have always done, protect people from mages, including mages themselves. It was a close vote to leave, how do those mages who didn't want to leave feel?

Better than alternative still. It was a fool's dream to believe that there could be any reconciliation.

[naes1984]

I hope not. Cerberus went from interesting in ME2 to mustache twirling baddies in ME3 who apparently have limitless resources and the ability to be anywhere at any time. I have every intention of siding with the Templars, wiping out the Mages and preventing Magister Lords 2.0. I've killed Anders every single time I've played the game even when I supported the mages. No, I don't care if they (being fictional and all) were born that way. Furthermore, how I play a game against fictional people in a fictional land doesn't reflect my morality in the real world or how I deal with real people. If anyone thinks it does, you really need to grow up, step away and get perspective.

[Lord Raijin]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Why shouldn't Orsino be selfish? Why should he or any mage give a crap about a world that treats them like monsters?

If a mage expects to live in that world, they'd better care. Otherwise they do become monsters. And they should be treated that way.

How can a mage expect to live in a world where people are programed by the Chantry to fear and hate them? I don't condone what Anders did, but I can fully reason with him for doing it. People will do anything in a desperate situation.

I don't partcularly like Orsino, but he tried to reason with Meredith, even told her to arrest him and his subordinates right after she delcared R.O.A. He pleaded to her to revoke the R.O.A, but she still insist of wanting to commit genocide by killing every mage in the circle over what 1 rogue apostate did to the Chantry.

AresKeith wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

He
cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse.
She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes
of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

She wanted to appease both sides and not choose

If she picked a side then the conflict would've sparked anyway

Not really.  Elthina was playing a sick game. By Chantry law she is in charge of the Templars in her hold therefour she has to side with the Templars no matter what. Even Cullen acknowledge that what Elthina was doing to the mages was cruel... by letting them have false hope.

[Xilizhra]

naes1984 wrote...

I hope not. Cerberus went from interesting in ME2 to mustache twirling baddies in ME3 who apparently have limitless resources and the ability to be anywhere at any time. I have every intention of siding with the Templars, wiping out the Mages and preventing Magister Lords 2.0. I've killed Anders every single time I've played the game even when I supported the mages. No, I don't care if they (being fictional and all) were born that way. Furthermore, how I play a game against fictional people in a fictional land doesn't reflect my morality in the real world or how I deal with real people. If anyone thinks it does, you really need to grow up, step away and get perspective.

Cerberus was always the same, just hiding its face from you. If the templars turn out to be the same, as seems likely... oh, 'twill be delicious. Also, you'll never succeed in your plan; the mage class will always be open to players.

[Taleroth]

Palidane wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
Conflict schmonflict. The entire city should have been burned to the ground.

If Anders committed a crime it was thinking small.

Uhh, wow. Doesn't that seem a bit extreme?

Does everyone turning into an abomination or becoming insane sound extreme?

That place was a hat full of crazy.

[Palidane]

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

[Taleroth]

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

Then it's such a shame that the techniques required to combat these mages is treated as a closely guarded secret.

That's actually the same problem I have with Wardens. The Blights wouldn't be a problem if they didn't insist on leveraging "secret knowledge" into political power.

Modifié par Taleroth, 20 août 2013 - 03:29 .

[Xilizhra]

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

You mentioned what I would think, personally, walking down the street. If I'm targeted by either, I'm dead. What you speak of is more the domain of governments to worry about.

Anyway, it's the responsibility of national governments to safeguard their streets. Mage society is not their domain, and they can run that themselves.

[Ausstig]

Xilizhra wrote...

yes but unlike homosexuals Mages have mind control powers and abominations have destructive power on the same scale as natural disasters. If people like that existed in the real world would be fine with them walking down the street?

Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

The mages left to go off and broke the system, the Templars are doing as they have always done, protect people from mages, including mages themselves. It was a close vote to leave, how do those mages who didn't want to leave feel?

Better than alternative still. It was a fool's dream to believe that there could be any reconciliation.

it is illegal to have a gun without a license, at least where I live, mages don't have that check. Also guns are still less powerful then tornados. Which is what mages going off, has been compared to, so it is not a perfect argument. 

I do not belive that. Mages like Finn were happy with the tower, war does not solve things. If you truely feel there can be no reconciliation, then the war can only end when either the mages are dead and beaten or normal people are. 

Xilizhra wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
Because they don't gain anything by proving them right.  If I've got a reputation and people treat me like a brutish thug I do not improve my lot by acting like a brutish thug.  The mages greatest fight, and one they are going to lose based on most of their attitudes and actions, is one of hearts and minds.  If they don't rise above people's expectations of them they will only breed more resentment, hatred, and fear and the whole thing starts over again.

Thankfully, the templars' betrayal of the Chantry, as well as simple time, has given them an edge here. It's not a lost cause by any means.

I don't see how the Templars behaviour changes things for the mages in this regard.  No matter how bad the Templars get it's not going to change the public perception of mages.  If mages continue on as they have in the past 2 games they are not going to win anyone over.  Now I haven't read the books so maybe there are more mages portrayed as more personable, compassionate, or even just considerate.  Not to mention Anders set up a pretty big hurdle, cause now any mage who seems genuinely decent and helpful might just be another monster biding their time.

In short: Anders was glossed over by history and the actual war was kicked off by templars attacking a meeting of Enchanters in Orlais. But to know more, we really have to see DAI.

Do you know that for sure, isn't that like saying Osama was glossed over and war did not start until the invasion of Afganistan? Or what about the almo?