1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Mykel54]

The game needs several enemies for everyone to fight, say that the inquisitor is a mage, and he is forced to kill apostates, people would complain. Bu what if those mooks are instead a cult of
demon worshipping mages, who wants to transform everyone just like Uldred? Nobody would have a problem killing those.

If the inquisitor was killing normal templars instead of red crazed ones, then people would say: why i am forced to kill them, if i am pro templar?
Basically having the enemies being crazy is a sure way to make the player not sympathise with them.

[KainD]

Mykel54 wrote...

But what if those mooks are instead a cult of demon worshipping mages, who wants to transform everyone just like Uldred? Nobody would have a problem killing those.

I personally had problems killing those. But I accepted that Warden and Hawke are not ''my'' characters to that extent and have a fixed enough personality and plot to not support such ideas. 

[Reznore57]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


...just like Cerebrus, and its mutant army of mind-controlled shock troops?

Yeah the troops have the same role , but I doubt the Divine is the Illusive man.
She probably isn't stupid and doesn't drink the lyrium.

[Fast Jimmy]

Mykel54 wrote...

The game needs several enemies for everyone to fight, say that the inquisitor is a mage, and he is forced to kill apostates, people would complain. Bu what if those mooks are instead a cult of
demon worshipping mages, who wants to transform everyone just like Uldred? Nobody would have a problem killing those.

If the inquisitor was killing normal templars instead of red crazed ones, then people would say: why i am forced to kill them, if i am pro templar?
Basically having the enemies being crazy is a sure way to make the player not sympathise with them.

Some might call that "easy-out" story-telling, though. Making everyone crazy and, therefore, justifiably killable was a big problem with DA2. 

I'd like it a lot more if doing our mission made us kill those who we would otherwise side with. To fight people with faces, instead of zealots with crazy juice running through their veins. Wars are always fought by regular people who believe one thing over another, not by drugged up loonies who we mercifully put down for their own good. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 01 septembre 2013 - 12:03 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Reznore57 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


...just like Cerebrus, and its mutant army of mind-controlled shock troops?

Yeah the troops have the same role , but I doubt the Divine is the Illusive man.
She probably isn't stupid and doesn't drink the lyrium.

Maybe not the Divine, no. Just like Cereberus wasn't run by the Alliance, these Red Templars aren't run by The Chantry. Whoever is leading them probably will be portrayed as stoopid evel and drink red lyrium like it was Koo-Aid, though.

[KainD]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Some might call that "easy-out" story-telling, though. Making everyone crazy and, therefore, justifiably killable was a big problem with DA2. 

I ask again: What is so crazy about DA2 ''villains''? 

Take Tarohne - wants to establish mage dominance over mundanes in a Tevinter fashion. What is so crazy and unreasonable about that? Why can't a mage PC be like: Oh yeah, that's nice! I've been braking my back to get some money and build a name for myself, and this is the best opportunity. 
Mage PC could help Tarohne and other blood mages to innihilate the templars in Kirkwall, invite Tevinter and get some nice status and riches. 

[Sylvianus]

I'm not really worried. There will be bad guys from both sides.

[Ausstig]

Sylvianus wrote...

I'm not really worried. There will be bad guys from both sides.

Maybe, but how many mages have we seen in the demo? 

how many Mages Have been shown as agressors in the art? 

The game will beat up on Templars cause that's what the whiners want and the DA teams market plan appears to be:

1. Give into whin threads on BSN.

2. Be like every other game out there.

(seriously that demo made me think Oblivion sooo much)

[dragonflight288]

I feel the difference between the templars and cerberus is that cerberus lost a lot of the valid arguments for why they ended up like they did. But the templars, it's been established that they've been addicted to lyrium since Origins. It's been established just as long that if you deprive a templar of lyrium, they go through lyrium withdrawal, and the side-effects include memory-loss and weakness, and then the extreme cases of insanity and possibly death. On the flip-side, if a templar is on lyrium too long, he becomes lyrium addled and loses his memory and starts going nuts as well.

After DA2 and Asunder, the templars have left the Chantry, who own a monopoly on the lyrium trade with the dwarves. Mage-supporters in the DA2 thread have long predicted that a large faction of templars will become desperate for lyrium, and would do some abominable things to get it. This red lyrium business had been predicted since DA2, even if it's not in the form initially stated.

The templar codex itself says that templars largely recruit from the religiously fervent to keep them from questioning their orders, Cullen said that templars had authority over mages by divine right. Then suddenly, the mages are being forceful in saying they don't want to be part of the Chantry anymore, and wish to remove themselves, and the templars would suddenly lose that divine authority if the mages left, as well as the purpose for why they were put into the Chantry in the first place, and left the Chantry themselves to go on a mage hunt.

Now those templars are deprived of their lyrium, and the side effects will come. Now, I'm sure many templars are reasonable people, and many are quite likely to go back to the Chantry to get their fix. Some may have been templar recruits who never took lyrium like Alistair, and thus get to retain their sanity. But the religious fanatics, or the truly lyrium desperate, I think, are who's going to make up the Red Templars.

Unless every templar becomes a Red Templar, then it won't be a repeat of cerberus. It'll be factions within one faction, and they may end up warring together or disagreeing in a manner similar to the Fraternities of the Enchanters.

[d-boy15]

They just need a bloodmage counterpart.

[dragonflight288]

They'll probably have one or six. They've said that they're going to be more balanced this time around than in DA2, and after seeing all these reveals, I"m inclined to believe them.

[Clertar]

I think the "pro-templar" ranks will have a grayscale éventail just as much as the "pro-mage" faction will.

Modifié par Clertar, 01 septembre 2013 - 02:38 .

[cjones91]

Clertar wrote...

I think the "pro-templar" ranks will have a grayscale éventail just a much as the "pro-mage" faction.

Exactly,of course the pro templars won't be satisfied until they see mages eating babies and destroying towns while summoning demons.

[MisterJB]

cjones91 wrote...

Clertar wrote...

I think the "pro-templar" ranks will have a grayscale éventail just a much as the "pro-mage" faction.

Exactly,of course the pro templars won't be satisfied until they see mages eating babies and destroying towns while summoning demons.

Considering we have seen Red Templars destroying towns while controling Rock Wraiths; or something similar; seeing mages doing something similar would go a long way towards calming my fears, personally.

[The Elder King]

I think it's likely that we'll have blood mages trying to destroy/enslave villages. Let's just hope that the next time they'll show this.

Modifié par hhh89, 01 septembre 2013 - 03:10 .

[MisterJB]

One of the Tevinter mages in the demo already said "We will reign". Therefore, I suspect the role of justifying the position of Pro-Templars; if that is something they even bother with; will be relegated to Tevinter mages while, conveniently, keeping the "glorious and completely justified mage revolution" as innocent as a babe in arms.

Still, the support is appreciated.

Modifié par MisterJB, 01 septembre 2013 - 03:18 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

I don know but that case with red templars sounds stupid for what reason they burn villages well i know that templars are already fanatics but crap this is not fanaticism ,what they do is just omnicidal maniac thing(i don't think that even meredith would do that) and how the hell they get red lyrium and why they have magic or something similar?

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...

One of the Tevinter mages in the demo already said "We will reign". Therefore, I suspect the role of justifying the position of Pro-Templars; if that is something they even bother with; will be relegated to Tevinter mages while, conveniently, keeping the "glorious and completely justified mage revolution" as innocent as a babe in arms.

Still, the support is appreciated.

I hope that the mage rebellion will be portrayed in a realistic way, expecially considering the various different ideologies in the confraternities. Asunder already shown mages who wouldn't esitate in sacrificing innocents to achieve their own goals.

[The Hierophant]

Sweet baby Jesus?

[cjones91]

MisterJB wrote...

One of the Tevinter mages in the demo already said "We will reign". Therefore, I suspect the role of justifying the position of Pro-Templars; if that is something they even bother with; will be relegated to Tevinter mages while, conveniently, keeping the "glorious and completely justified mage revolution" as innocent as a babe in arms.

Still, the support is appreciated.

The revolution is justified since Lambert was the one who broke the Accords.

[The Elder King]

The Hierophant wrote...

Sweet baby Jesus?

What?

[The Hierophant]

hhh89 wrote...

What?

My criticism and fear in regards to the Templars being dumbed down like Cerberus, might be a possibility in DAI now.

[The Elder King]

The Hierophant wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

What?

My criticism and fear in regards to the Templars being dumbed down like Cerberus, might be a possibility in DAI now.

The fact that the group we saw was called red templars both in the story and in the gameplay lead me to believe that they are only a subfaction of templars.

[The Hierophant]

hhh89 wrote...

The fact that the group we saw was called red templars both in the story and in the gameplay lead me to believe that they are only a subfaction of templars.

They can easily be one of only two subfactions with Justinia's loyalists comprising the other in the final product. I wouldn't be surprised if Lambert's group were dumbed down into Red Templars.

[dragonflight288]

The Hierophant wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

What?

My criticism and fear in regards to the Templars being dumbed down like Cerberus, might be a possibility in DAI now.

A faction may be, and there is already existing lore to support it, called lyrium withdrawal or lyrium addled when too much is used over an extended period of time, but I highly doubt every templar or seeker will be dumbed down like Cerberus.