1470 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Taleroth wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

Then it's such a shame that the techniques required to combat these mages is treated as a closely guarded secret.

That's actually the same problem I have with Wardens. The Blights wouldn't be a problem if they didn't insist on leveraging "secret knowledge" into political power.

What was that again?

[Xilizhra]

I do not belive that. Mages like Finn were happy with the tower, war does not solve things. If you truely feel there can be no reconciliation, then the war can only end when either the mages are dead and beaten or normal people are.

Only when the templars are surrendered, incinerated, or torn into many little bloodless chunks, yes. However, I think we can achieve peace beyond that.

Do you know that for sure, isn't that like saying Osama was glossed over and war did not start until the invasion of Afganistan? Or what about the almo?

Pretty sure. Anders was only one factor, the slaughter of the Kirkwall Circle was a bigger one, then it happened again in Rivain and nearly so in Orlais.

[Shadow Fox]

DPSSOC wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Even had the harvester killed hawke and the Templars Orsino and the mages would still be dead. And now there is a huge monster ready to destroy the city. It would be like me setting of a nuke if I was about to be killed. Mindlessly stupid and incredibly selfish. Easily the stupidest action performed in the entirety of Dragon Age 2 and that's really saying something.

Why shouldn't Orsino be selfish? Why should he or any mage give a crap about a world that treats them like monsters?

Because they don't gain anything by proving them right.  If I've got a reputation and people treat me like a brutish thug I do not improve my lot by acting like a brutish thug.  The mages greatest fight, and one they are going to lose based on most of their attitudes and actions, is one of hearts and minds.  If they don't rise above people's expectations of them they will only breed more resentment, hatred, and fear and the whole thing starts over again.

That's exactly why Martin Luthor King argued for peaceful protest as opposed to fullblown rioting over segregation.

[Maria Caliban]

In Exile wrote...

I thought they got the Cerberus treatment in DA:O so... I mean, I'm not seeing where the understandable side of their plight was supposed to be. I guess Gregoire was a perfectly reasonable jailer? But he's about the only one who didn't go full up on the crazy from the get-go. And, I suppose, Cullen, but only in the sense that he just seemed like an unbelievable creeper before going full-on crazy.

'Full-on crazy' has dominated the characterization of mages and Templars though.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The article implies that they aren't going to portray both sides at "their worst" anymore.

It outright states it, and also outright states that DA ]['s portrayal was as bad as it could be.

Meaning, the Templars in DA ][ are not the norm.

Not universal, I'm sure; there'll still be templars around who've clung to Justinia and didn't betray the Chantry. They were never as much of a problem.

That's exactly why Martin Luthor King argued for peaceful protest as opposed to fullblown rioting over segregation.

Note that this was many years after the Civil War.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 août 2013 - 03:33 .

[Palidane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

You mentioned what I would think, personally, walking down the street. If I'm targeted by either, I'm dead. What you speak of is more the domain of governments to worry about.

Anyway, it's the responsibility of national governments to safeguard their streets. Mage society is not their domain, and they can run that themselves.

And what if that national government decides the best way to safeguard their streets is to lock up every mage in a Circle of some kind?

You can't say that you support mage freedom, but then shrug when we bring up the problems with it.

[Xilizhra]

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

You mentioned what I would think, personally, walking down the street. If I'm targeted by either, I'm dead. What you speak of is more the domain of governments to worry about.

Anyway, it's the responsibility of national governments to safeguard their streets. Mage society is not their domain, and they can run that themselves.

And what if that national government decides the best way to safeguard their streets is to lock up every mage in a Circle of some kind?

You can't say that you support mage freedom, but then shrug when we bring up the problems with it.

That is not their jurisdiction; they're only permitted to imprison mages who actually commit crimes.

[Taleroth]

AresKeith wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Then it's such a shame that the techniques required to combat these mages is treated as a closely guarded secret.

That's actually the same problem I have with Wardens. The Blights wouldn't be a problem if they didn't insist on leveraging "secret knowledge" into political power.

What was that again?

Which part? The part where Templar training would be just about capable in any dedicated guard corp or the part where every nation on Thedas should have Darkspawn detectors integrated right into the local chain of command?

Modifié par Taleroth, 20 août 2013 - 03:39 .

[Palidane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Anyone walking down the street could, in theory, have a gun and shoot me. Most people aren't volatile in that manner.

False Dichotomy. Mages are an order of magnitude more powerful than normal people. If a mages blows one will save, we have a roaring abomination that can level entire towns before it's killed. If a mage goes Maelficar and starts sacrificing people For the Glory of Dumat!, there is no reliable way to take him down. Maleficars could kill hundreds of people before enough guards show up to kill him. 

You mentioned what I would think, personally, walking down the street. If I'm targeted by either, I'm dead. What you speak of is more the domain of governments to worry about.

Anyway, it's the responsibility of national governments to safeguard their streets. Mage society is not their domain, and they can run that themselves.

And what if that national government decides the best way to safeguard their streets is to lock up every mage in a Circle of some kind?

You can't say that you support mage freedom, but then shrug when we bring up the problems with it.

That is not their jurisdiction; they're only permitted to imprison mages who actually commit crimes.

Says who? If Orlais thinks the best way to protects it's citizens is to lock up every mage in the country, who's going to stop them?

[Xilizhra]

Says who? If Orlais thinks the best way to protects it's citizens is to lock up every mage in the country, who's going to stop them?

The Circle, if they ever want aid from it ever again and don't want more aid being given to Orlais' enemies.

[Xilizhra]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

He cared enough to give Elthina a merciful death. She deserves much worse. She deserves to be made to suffer the way that both mages and mundanes of Kirkwall have suffered due to her negligence.

This is twisted, Plaintiff.

You really believe that two wrongs make a right?

Elthina was criminally negligent at the very best; she may well have been secretly abetting Meredith outright. She deserves to be taken to account for this. Whether being exploded was the best manner or not is debateable, but she's by no means innocent.

[Taleroth]

EntropicAngel wrote...

You really believe that two wrongs make a right?

No, but they do grow towns.

[sandalisthemaker]

You guys are cracking me up.

[Palidane]

Xilizhra wrote...
The Circle, if they ever want aid from it ever again and don't want more aid being given to Orlais' enemies.

Uh huh. But what if, say, every Andrastian nation in Thedas decided to lock up all it's mages? You know, hypothetically.

Modifié par Palidane, 20 août 2013 - 03:48 .

[Taleroth]

Palidane wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The Circle, if they ever want aid from it ever again and don't want more aid being given to Orlais' enemies.

Uh huh. But what if, say, every Andrastian nation in Thedas decided to lock up all it's mages? You know, hypothetically.

Then they'd be overrun by the Dalish. THE ELVES RISE AGAIN

[Steelcan]

I like Cerberus, but the Templars can die one by one

[Shadow Fox]

Xilizhra wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

The article implies that they aren't going to portray both sides at "their worst" anymore.

It outright states it, and also outright states that DA ]['s portrayal was as bad as it could be.

Meaning, the Templars in DA ][ are not the norm.

Not universal, I'm sure; there'll still be templars around who've clung to Justinia and didn't betray the Chantry. They were never as much of a problem.

That's exactly why Martin Luthor King argued for peaceful protest as opposed to fullblown rioting over segregation.

Note that this was many years after the Civil War.

Doesn't change his point that violence would only lead to more violence in reponse.

Also I think this will be locked soon.