1470 réponses à ce sujet

[milena87]

Crazy templars chewing on red lyrium? Hmmm... I just hope that there will be also more reasonable and honorable templars like Evangeline.

[Shadow Fox]

anmale89 wrote...

No matter what I will always support the templars, I need no argeement of anyone. I'm done with supporting mages and their cause, it's sick propaganda of mage zealots and fanatics, that made me switch side. I don't have to explain myself after all.

To be fair there are zealots and fanatics on both sides plus dragonflight is sane.

The problem with the Circle system is the imbalance of power in my opinion.Dehumanizing and vilifying mages is also an issue.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 03 septembre 2013 - 08:11 .

[TTTX]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

So you believe templars don't care about mages?That's a pretty cynical way to think and I'm a cynic myself

Some Mages care about templars and vice versa.

The problem are the fanatics on both sides they are the reason why the war broke out in the first place and also why it's hard to find a comprimise that could allow mages more freedom in the circlesystem and at the same time let the templares do their jobs.

Unfortanally that option isn't possible at the moment.

Also I doubt the Red templars is the main force of the templars more like a small splinter group of a couple hundred men and women at the most.

[anmale89]

@Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, I call zealots the real people, not fictional. The players I spoke with are mage zealots, literaly. The do nothing but express their hatred to the templars and speak only about destroying it. I met little to none supporters of the templars from the players, mage fanatics are far more active in spreading their propaganda and their opponents are silent. Because I've been annoyed by the repetetive propaganda of the players being mage zealots I decided to no longer support mages.

[anmale89]

@milena87, Evangeline is a traitor of the templar order, she's no more a templar since she switched side.

[anmale89]

Does anyone wonder what happens if a mage uses red lyrium? Maybe he'll become an abomination or worse?

[thats1evildude]

Consuming red lyrium likely causes painful death for a mage.

[TTTX]

thats1evildude wrote...

Consuming red lyrium likely causes painful death for a mage.

Or make the mage extremly powerful as seen with Merrdtih, a none mage.

[The Elder King]

thats1evildude wrote...

Consuming red lyrium likely causes painful death for a mage.

Mages consume potions made with normal lyrium. I don't see why it wouldn't be technically possible to drink potions made of red lyrium (not that I believe is a good thing).
In theory, mages need lyrium too (for their spells), even if not as much as templars. It's possible  that some of them (other than going on blood magic), if they find the red lyrium, would try to use it.
I'm not suggesting that this is going to happen, but it's a possibility.

Modifié par hhh89, 03 septembre 2013 - 09:18 .

[thats1evildude]

Well, mages are very sensitive to the effects of lyrium; lore-wise, they can't go near the raw stuff without severe hemmorhaging. Even lyrium potions are greatly diluted.

Red lyrium can cause madness and mutation even to individuals with a tolerance for lyrium's effects. So what would be the effect on a mage? I'm willing to bet it's not pretty.

Also, it would make little sense to expose your enemies to a superweapon that turns them into gods.

[TTTX]

thats1evildude wrote...

Well, mages are very sensitive to the effects of lyrium; lore-wise, they can't go near the raw stuff without severe hemmorhaging. Even lyrium potions are greatly diluted.

Red lyrium can cause madness and mutation even to individuals with a tolerance for lyrium's effects. So what would be the effect on a mage? I'm willing to bet it's not pretty.

Also, it would make little sense to expose your enemies to a superweapon that turns them into gods.

Unless they don't have choice.

Templars need lyrium to use their abilities  and since most of them have broken away from the chantry, which controls the lyrium trade, well they either to make lyrium supply lines of their own (which can be sabotaged) or use something that can eleminate the need to take regular lyrium in order to use ones abillities.

Red lyrium can do that (and more as seen with Merredith) since it's way more powerful and the templars don't know what happens when a mage is exposed to it, so you can see why some templars would chose to try get Red lyrium and use it.

[GloriousDame]

TTTX wrote...

Red lyrium can do that (and more as seen with Merredith) since it's way more powerful and the templars don't know what happens when a mage is exposed to it, so you can see why some templars would chose to try get Red lyrium and use it.

Do you think these Red lyrium templars are templars that have broken out of the normal templar faction, away from the chantry to form their own "justice vs mages" order? 

[Ozzy]

I had a thought that maybe Cole had possessed Lambert and that he's the one leading a certain faction of Templars, forcing them to use the Red Lyrium while there's an opposing branch led by someone else.
Just trying to rationalise the use of it.

[TTTX]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...

Do you think these Red lyrium templars are templars that have broken out of the normal templar faction, away from the chantry to form their own "justice vs mages" order? 

Pretty much.

Most of the templars have broken away from the chantry, which has most likely caused more then a few problems for the templars like getting lyrium for their troops so they can use their templar abilities and there is most likely the problem of leadership (who is in charge, what are our goals, how should they be carried out, etc).

It's not impossible for a couple of templars who doesn't agree with the main faction of templars and has broken away maybe because they think mages should just be killed rather then put back in the circle.

I imagnie the mages has some of the same problems and most likely have a couple splintergroups (which they already had before they declared interpendece.) of their own.

[Potato Cat]

TTTX wrote...
Pretty much.

Most of the templars have broken away from the chantry, which has most likely caused more then a few problems for the templars like getting lyrium for their troops so they can use their templar abilities and there is most likely the problem of leadership (who is in charge, what are our goals, how should they be carried out, etc).

It's not impossible for a couple of templars who doesn't agree with the main faction of templars and has broken away maybe because they think mages should just be killed rather then put back in the circle.

I imagnie the mages has some of the same problems and most likely have a couple splintergroups (which they already had before they declared interpendece.) of their own.

I would love this, for all factions, and be able to side with whoever we want. Agree with Vivienne and the Circle system? Great side with these folks! Isolationist, eh? Well just side with the same factions minus the Templars!

[EmperorSahlertz]

TTTX wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

Well, mages are very sensitive to the effects of lyrium; lore-wise, they can't go near the raw stuff without severe hemmorhaging. Even lyrium potions are greatly diluted.

Red lyrium can cause madness and mutation even to individuals with a tolerance for lyrium's effects. So what would be the effect on a mage? I'm willing to bet it's not pretty.

Also, it would make little sense to expose your enemies to a superweapon that turns them into gods.

Unless they don't have choice.

Templars need lyrium to use their abilities  and since most of them have broken away from the chantry, which controls the lyrium trade, well they either to make lyrium supply lines of their own (which can be sabotaged) or use something that can eleminate the need to take regular lyrium in order to use ones abillities.

Red lyrium can do that (and more as seen with Merredith) since it's way more powerful and the templars don't know what happens when a mage is exposed to it, so you can see why some templars would chose to try get Red lyrium and use it.

The chantry most likely no longer control the Lyrium trade, since it has lost much of its influence with the departure of the Templars, and it can no longer enforce its monopoly.

[TTTX]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
The chantry most likely no longer control the Lyrium trade, since it has lost much of its influence with the departure of the Templars, and it can no longer enforce its monopoly.

There is also the lure of power of Red Lyrium.

You don't have to be a mage in order to want power and there also the problems of getting the lyrium out to the front lines, not to mention we don't know much about the factions in DA:I what's their situation, how are their troops and have anyone splintered away from them and made their own groups/factions.

There also a the problem that Red lyrium is rare that makes the chances of the enteri templar faction is using it and agrees that's a good idea to use it is at best very small.

Modifié par TTTX, 03 septembre 2013 - 11:46 .

[Ollys]

Fresh and not confirmed spoilers say that red templars are big evil of game and they main plan is start a orlesian-feralden war and then they leader in about to enter black city and became a god. 

So even if red templars are faction that split from templars, all this sound pretty meh. Bioware push templars futher and futher into bad guys, dumping templar-mage conflict from grey moral area, where both faction has reasonable arguments, to plain good vs evil.

And yes, same story with Cerberus, when in ME3 they degradeted from faction with reason and they own right to chaotic evil cyber-zombies.

Modifié par Ollys, 03 septembre 2013 - 12:28 .

[Bugsie]

Eterna5 wrote...

Har har. Mage Sympathizers.

Let me ask you this, would you be okay living amongst people who could at any time lose their minds to a monster that can kill you along with everyone else in the general vicinity?

Well, good thing it isn't real life is it?  Because your asking that question in a way that is far too hypothetical to make a reasoned response.  You could argue that the Templar fanatics are equally dangerous in the game, because you know, magic doesn't exist in real life.

I'm interested in how the Red Templar storyline is going to play out, hopefully more fleshed out, less one dimensional than Cerberus (from ME1 and 3, 2 I felt gave a far more fleshed out version.)

anmale89 wrote...

@Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, I call zealots the real people, not fictional. The players I spoke with are mage zealots, literaly. The do nothing but express their hatred to the templars and speak only about destroying it. I met little to none supporters of the templars from the players, mage fanatics are far more active in spreading their propaganda and their opponents are silent. Because I've been annoyed by the repetetive propaganda of the players being mage zealots I decided to no longer support mages.

If fanatics are destroying the game for you, can I suggest walking away from your computer for a bit, or perhaps the forum?  You'll find opponents of Mage fanatics are far from silent, as this thread attests.

[cjones91]

anmale89 wrote...

@milena87, Evangeline is a traitor of the templar order, she's no more a templar since she switched side.

See this is why I hate extremists.Evangeline was the perfect templar and one of the few moderate ones in a group of mage hating extremists such as yourself.

[Lotion Soronarr]

TTTX wrote...

The problem are the fanatics on both sides they are the reason why the war broke out in the first place and also why it's hard to find a comprimise that could allow mages more freedom in the circlesystem and at the same time let the templares do their jobs.

Unfortanally that option isn't possible at the moment.

Conflict is the curse of humanity.
As long as perfect equality doesn't exist (and it never will, especially not with mages. It is downright impossible there), over time poeple will ALWAYS come to blows.
Heck, even when you give perfect equality, there are some who would STILL come to blows.

In short, the Circle system was always strained - that's because any system is.
It was only a matter of time before events happen that will push it to one side enough to start a conflict.
And once it is over - regardless whch side wins - there will be another conflict. And another. And another.

[Ollys]

cjones91 wrote...

anmale89 wrote...

@milena87, Evangeline is a traitor of the templar order, she's no more a templar since she switched side.

See this is why I hate extremists.Evangeline was the perfect templar and one of the few moderate ones in a group of mage hating extremists such as yourself.

 
So what makes her good templar? For whole book she side with the mages again and again and finnaly joining rebels. What exacly she do like templar?

[DarkKnightHolmes]

Here's the picture of all red templars and most blood mages for DAI.

[dragonflight288]

Ollys wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

anmale89 wrote...

@milena87, Evangeline is a traitor of the templar order, she's no more a templar since she switched side.

See this is why I hate extremists.Evangeline was the perfect templar and one of the few moderate ones in a group of mage hating extremists such as yourself.

 
So what makes her good templar? For whole book she side with the mages again and again and finnaly joining rebels. What exacly she do like templar?

She acted as she believed was the good of the mages, and not the good of a religious dogma. A templars duty is to not only protect the world from the mages, but also to protect mages from the world.

[cjones91]

Ollys wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

anmale89 wrote...

@milena87, Evangeline is a traitor of the templar order, she's no more a templar since she switched side.

See this is why I hate extremists.Evangeline was the perfect templar and one of the few moderate ones in a group of mage hating extremists such as yourself.

 
So what makes her good templar? For whole book she side with the mages again and again and finnaly joining rebels. What exacly she do like templar?

For one she always believed in protecting the mages from non mages and the non mages from them,second she always put duty first which is why she did'nt kill Pharamond and decided to let the Divine deal with him.She did the right thing when Lambert and his men were killing innocent mages and in my opinion did what any soilder should:go against their commanding officer if they are are doing something immoral.