MisterJB wrote...
You should reread the book. First, what Lambert wants Rhys to do is confess that he has been commiting the murders under the sway of a demon which he actually had. All evidence points in that direction; such as the murders only starting after Rhys met Cole; and, at the end of the book, Rhys even admits that there is a good chance Cole was controlling him without knowledge. And we know Cole is not of Thedas.
Lambert was rigth all along and he only threatens to murder Rhys and the First Enchanters only if Rhys didn't confess. This would have made the rebellion sound like the wills of a demon.
And why was there a need to do this? Because Fiona hijacked a meeting destined to discuss what was to be done with the Rite of Tranquility; an olive branch by the Chantry; in order to propose world war and because Adrain killed Pharamond and planted evidence.
Does that exempt Lambert of all guilt? No but it shows that we can go further back in order to find a culprit for this war.
But, bottom line, had Evangeline&Co stayed put, Lambert would have controlled the mages and there would have been no rebellion.
.... But Rhys hasn't been commiting murders. Cole has and Rhys could see him but so could Wynne and she even remembered him when they were in the sewers and Rhys even hints that Wynne probably could see Cole all along but said nothing. Are you going to say Wynne was commiting murder for Cole next? Also if Rhys was commiting all the murders for Cole then how do you explain the ending where Cole has a knife to Lambert's throat and is about to kill him. True, I believe that Cole does use blood magic to make people forget but I doubt his going around controlling people to kill for him especially since we haven't seen any concrete evidence showing him controlling people. Besides, the end of the book even shows that he can finally control his killing after getting out of the fade as he let Pharamont live even after he begged for his death.
Also yes, Fiona hijacked it. I agree she was being stupid but Lambert could have waited for the voting to at least finish. It's shown in the ending the only reason they even went to war was because Rhys choose it. Imagine if none of the destruction had happened and they had asked Rhys then it would have probably ended with just Mages returning to their normal lives instead of this long war.
And why should Evangeline stay put? Adrian did the murder, even if Lambert doesn't know it and thinks it's Cole/Rhys. He was going to punish Rhys for the wrong reason and so Evangeline should be able to defend him.
MisterJB wrote...
I don't begrudge mages like Wynne for placing their needs above that of others, it's just the nature of the world. I dislike them when they do this but that's all.
On the other hand, unless Evangeline is capable of policing every mage in the continent by her lonely self, then aiding in the escape of hundreds of mages who now obey to nu authority but their own and are free to do whatever they wish to whomever they wish whenever they wish is a betrayal of the highest order.
Wynne stood by her people, I can understand that. Wynne and Leliana and Justinia betrayed theirs.
Leliana, Evangeline and Wynne answer to the divine. She's the leader, she makes the rules. Lambert is the traitor and had no right to decide what happens to the mages in the tower at that point. He didn't listen to his own boss and so I don't expect why Evageline and Leliana should just give in and listen to a mad paranoid man.
MisterJB wrote...
Lambert could have been court-martialed after things had settled down. His actions, at least, had no one interfered, would have lead to the containment of mages and the protection of the people. Leliana's and the Divine's will lead to the deaths of thousands.
Court-martialed? Did you see the ending? He thinks the Divine is weak and believes that they don't need her. I'm sure even if he had got the mages under controlled he still would have turned against the Chantry. And, honestly, His action woud have failed to contorl the mages. He wanted Rhys but the other mages loved Rhys. They believed him to be their speaker even though he wasn't involved in much politics. Killing Rhys would have definitely pissed off the mages. As shown by the book, him being captured certainly did ****** off Wynne.
MisterJB wrote..
He isn't malicious but he still helped start this war. Perhaps more than any other.
Like Anders said in DA2, the circle was a time bomb just waiting to explode. If it wasn't Cole, something else would have.
MisterJB wrote..
I wish my Warden had been there. Then we could see to whom Shale was truly loyal.
Wouldn't make much of a difference anyway. The only thing she did was destroy the phylactery, Wynne could have just make a hurricane or something to destroy that.
MisterJB wrote..
They might have been separate in two groups but they are both equality guilty since they worked towards the same plan. Free the mages. Evangeline was even part of the group that destroyed the Phylactery Room.
Because it's blood magic. Evangeline feels that it's extremely hypocritical that mages are not allowed to use blood magic but the templars doing it is never shunned upon.
MisterJB wrote..
Rhys was a Libertarian from the very beginning. He, unlike Adrians, might have some boundaries and doubts but he never spoke against war.
When he came back from his little adventure of finding Pharamont and his discusisons with Wynne, he became extremely unsure of who is right. Adrian even says in the ending the reason she put the dagger in Rhys room is because it would make Wynne turn against the templars which would also help to push the Rhys against the templars. He also wasn't much of a Libertarian anyway as he says he only hangs out with them because of Adrian and he doesn't even get much involved in their politics and never spoke about seperating from the chantry before.
MisterJB wrote..
Mine would have requested the presence of Templars to speak for the non-mages at the conclave because their lives would be affected as well. Failing that, he would have advised Lambert against intefering. Had the mages voted for separation, he would have advised to use the Templars to stand as a human shield between the mages and Val-Royeaux; to not move an inch but to not attack first. Falling all that, he would have fought by Lambert's side against Rhys and his cohorts.
Better a few dozen enchanters die than the thousands of innocents that will in this war.
And you think Lambert would listen? If his not willing to listen to the most powerful woman and leader of a biggest religion in all of Thedas (The Divine), you think your Warden can magicaly convince him?
Also if the mages had voted for seperation (Highly doubt that anyway before the fight broke out), I doubt most of them would even attack. It says specifically in the book that the templars attacked first, a mage who surrendered was killed while everything was going crazy and that's when the mages got angry. It's his hate for Rhys that started this war and if he had actually listened to Evangelien and apprehanded Cole before going after Rhys. This wouldn't have happened.
And last time I checked, mages include innocent people as well. Just because Lambert doesn't like some of the enchanter doesn't mean he can just jail all of them regardless of their loyalty. Some of the enchanter (like Loyalist) support the templars, yet they still got killed or thrown in the dungeon. If the templar supporting mages aren't safe than no mage is and you shouldn't be surprised if they revolt after that.
Modifié par DarkKnightHolmes, 03 septembre 2013 - 05:10 .
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