1470 réponses à ce sujet

[Cylan Cooper]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think Loghain, like ME2 TIM, was mostly an accident.

Can you clarify what you mean for a poor, stupid forumite?

[KingRoxas]

Ausstig wrote...
There is a place for mindless evil; Darkspawn, demons.

This.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope that the writers will rethink this*, that is, if the leak is true. *The info from the leak.

Some ideas:

1. Change the name from Red Templars to "Order of X" (Divine Light? lol)

2. Don't make them "lolevil crazy, attack everything aka ME3 Cerberus" but fanatics with their own goals. (Like the Disciples of Andraste)

3. I would prefer not having them as the faction that you fight just because you need something to fight (Cerberus in ME3, the ME2 mercenaries)

4. If they aren't "lolevil", let the player hear their agenda, and even help them if you so choose.

Modifié par Kingroxas, 04 septembre 2013 - 09:48 .

[Dave of Canada]

Cylanthegreat wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think Loghain, like ME2 TIM, was mostly an accident.

Can you clarify what you mean for a poor, stupid forumite?

It's just the general air around the opinions surrounding the character, how close they were to screwing it up. Some of the writers were flabbergasted that some people would support and defend Loghain, etc. They've also mentioned that originally, Loghain was supposed to be mind controlled by the Archdemon or something.

The only writer which I've seen involve himself with Loghain more than an antagonist was David Gaider. Whether he does so out of his own opinions of the character or as a devil's advocate, I dunno.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Qunari are about a 1000 times more interesting than the mage and templar conflict at least.

That would be very subjective, wouldn't it?

Personally, I couldn't care less about them.

[Lotion Soronarr]

hhh89 wrote...

Well, some of the things on the leak have changed (if it's legit), seeing the demo. And the first ME3 leak has things different from the final game.
Though I think yours is a good approach.

Tiny changes, inconsequantial ones mostly.

Now I personally don't like the idea of dumping all the bad people from goup A into group B, thus creating a valid evil target.
Regardless if it's mages/blood mages or templars/red templars.
Also, mind-altering and mind-control as a reason for why entire faction are evil is boring and lazy. Didn't someone said originaly Loghain was supposed to be mind controlled? Then Cerberus? Now the Red Templars going insane?

[Walter Black]

MisterJB wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Allan responded in the PAX Q&A thread about red templars being mindless and a plot device, and if villains are for the mindless or insane.
He said that right not all the writing parts (story, romances, etc.) aren't in a definitive state. Considering that (in the case the leak is legit) things seems to have changed from the leak, the main plot, or the role of the RT, might change.

Unless we're looking at different posts, all he said was that he wasn't qualified to answer; which could simply mean story is not part of his duties; and that even if he was, he wouldn't because without full details, people would start assuming things.

Mister JB, based on some of your comments in previous posts, I'm curious about something: do you object to the treatment of magic within the context of the Dragon Age universe, or do you simply dislike magic as a narrative device in general? If the latter, why continue following a franchise in which magic will likely always be a part of?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Vortex13 wrote...

I would like the option of siding with the Templars or the Mages to be a morally grey choice; no right or wrong choice. I don't want to see the Pro-Templar choice to be seen as the Evil or Renegade choice, and the Pro-Mage choice being the Good or Paragon choice; or vice versa.

The decision should have equal parts good and bad tied to it; not one choice being the 'good' choice, and the other being the: "I'm a psychotic, evil monster" choice. Prime example being the Werewolves vs. Dalish clan in DA:O. I am glad for the variety of choices, but really, picking the Werewolves had no logical reasoning behind it besides: "I'm evil!"

Ideally, I would prefer an option of working with both sides; negotiating terms between the two factions. I would hope that the decision presented to the player is more nuanced then:

Side with the Mages = Complete dissolution of the Circle system and all Mages are totally free.

OR

Side with the Templars = Circle system reinstated with no changes and/or killing all Mages.

That would only be non-nuanced if the aftermath/consequences would be totally ignored.

Circles gone, mages free? Great ending - for a mage. What about everyone else? What happens afterwards? The most realistic consequence would be chaos.
Circles re-instated, the same or even harsher? Great if you're a mundane, sucks if you're a mage.

SOMEONE is getting the shorter end of the stick. ALWAYS.

Perspective matters. No solutions makes everyone happy. Of course, there are people who would consider one or the other "perfect" or "better", but value judgments always differ.
I dislike simple, perfect solutions to complex, impossible problems, for they simply feel fake.

[TK514]

hhh89 wrote...

The post is the same, but look at the end of it:

This isn't something I'm actually all that qualified to confirm, to be honest. If I were, however, I'd still skip it because assumptions run rampant without full details and at this point things like story, romances, and stuff like that are still pretty hush hush. Sorry.

Doesn't the last line mean that story and romances aren't definitive? If not, I apologize. I misunderstood what he meant.

it means they can't/won't talk about them.  Being 'hush hush' is a figure of speech meaning 'secret'.

[Vit246]

greengoron89 wrote...

What are we talking about here? That leaked questionnaire from last year? Or did I miss something?

It went way off-topic into the realm of mages vs. templars threads.

[Solas]

I'm not up to speed! What leak?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Carbon-based wrote...

I'm not up to speed! What leak?

It's the new mass shift.

[Vortex13]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

I would like the option of siding with the Templars or the Mages to be a morally grey choice; no right or wrong choice. I don't want to see the Pro-Templar choice to be seen as the Evil or Renegade choice, and the Pro-Mage choice being the Good or Paragon choice; or vice versa.

The decision should have equal parts good and bad tied to it; not one choice being the 'good' choice, and the other being the: "I'm a psychotic, evil monster" choice. Prime example being the Werewolves vs. Dalish clan in DA:O. I am glad for the variety of choices, but really, picking the Werewolves had no logical reasoning behind it besides: "I'm evil!"

Ideally, I would prefer an option of working with both sides; negotiating terms between the two factions. I would hope that the decision presented to the player is more nuanced then:

Side with the Mages = Complete dissolution of the Circle system and all Mages are totally free.

OR

Side with the Templars = Circle system reinstated with no changes and/or killing all Mages.

That would only be non-nuanced if the aftermath/consequences would be totally ignored.

Circles gone, mages free? Great ending - for a mage. What about everyone else? What happens afterwards? The most realistic consequence would be chaos.
Circles re-instated, the same or even harsher? Great if you're a mundane, sucks if you're a mage.

SOMEONE is getting the shorter end of the stick. ALWAYS.

Perspective matters. No solutions makes everyone happy. Of course, there are people who would consider one or the other "perfect" or "better", but value judgments always differ.
I dislike simple, perfect solutions to complex, impossible problems, for they simply feel fake.

I'm not asking for a perfect solution, an 'Everyone's happy!' conclusion to the conflict, I agree that those feel fake. The peace option in ME 3 between the Quarians and the Geth, or the conclusion to Redcliffe those decisions esentially boiled down to: Everyone Happy = Completionist playthrough. I am not against completionist saves getting access to 'better' things (resources, allies, ect.) but resolving the Mage vs Templar conflict because you collected enough flawless rubies is incredibly artifical.

I am asking for the choice between the two sides (Mage/Templar) to be more varied than siding with the Mages = 100% agreement with all of the Mage ideals (even extreme ones), or siding with the Templars = 100% agreement with all of the Templar ideals (even the extreme ones). I would like the option of stepping into the battle and being allowed to choose a middle ground. Not a middle ground in the sense that everyone is happy, but a middle ground in terms of The Circle system being refined to provide more Mage rights and freedoms (more details in my first post) but the system still being in place and mandatory; at least until a Mage can be trusted to control their powers.

Mages wouldn't like that option, and Templars wouldn't like that option (at least the hardliners), nobody is totally fine with such an outcome, but IMO it is better than the game providing an either/or choice.

[Solas]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Carbon-based wrote...

I'm not up to speed! What leak?

It's the new mass shift.

Is there somewhere I can read it?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Vortex13 wrote...
I'm not asking for a perfect solution, an 'Everyone's happy!' conclusion to the conflict, I agree that those feel fake. The peace option in ME 3 between the Quarians and the Geth, or the conclusion to Redcliffe those decisions esentially boiled down to: Everyone Happy = Completionist playthrough. I am not against completionist saves getting access to 'better' things (resources, allies, ect.) but resolving the Mage vs Templar conflict because you collected enough flawless rubies is incredibly artifical.

I am asking for the choice between the two sides (Mage/Templar) to be more varied than siding with the Mages = 100% agreement with all of the Mage ideals (even extreme ones), or siding with the Templars = 100% agreement with all of the Templar ideals (even the extreme ones). I would like the option of stepping into the battle and being allowed to choose a middle ground. Not a middle ground in the sense that everyone is happy, but a middle ground in terms of The Circle system being refined to provide more Mage rights and freedoms (more details in my first post) but the system still being in place and mandatory; at least until a Mage can be trusted to control their powers.

Mages wouldn't like that option, and Templars wouldn't like that option (at least the hardliners), nobody is totally fine with such an outcome, but IMO it is better than the game providing an either/or choice.

More choices is always good, but I'm more concerned with realistic consequences and drawbacks of the chocies we do have.
Far too often, choices that should be risky contain no real risk. The downsides of a specific action are often ignored.

[anmale89]

And I have enough of Bioware's binary choices and it's dialogue wheel. I also think best solution of Quarian-geth conflict was well written, it required several conditions. Peace requires compromise and if people don't agree on that, they need to be persuaded, otherwise universal laguage - language of death leads to anihilation and extinction with nothing left. I don't care if people don't agree on compromises, they don't realise they need it and rejecting that is their choice, so may they live and die with consequences of their decision.

[anmale89]

I ask for perfect solution, which requires a lot of effort and conditions, then achieving it will be more satisfying. I don't care if other don't want it, I want. I realised BW doesn't give us that option and I'm done saving mages, that's why I want templars to be on my side over mages.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Honestly I think bioware should play to their strengths for these games. If they can't make a good mixed morality organization, than I want them to make the most evil, vile, over the top evil, completely irredeemable and unsympathetic villain organization that's ever been given fictional life.

[anmale89]

Darth Brotarian, in few games you could feel like a villain, more like an anti-hero. In SW games when players decide to be villains, they are alone in game, they still kill old enemies and what's different that they kill also their former villains, they are more neutral than evil. In SWTOR we could be bad guys and work for bad guys by killing good guys, there was alligence as I wanted. In early concepts of DAO player on the begining of the geme had to choose to go with Alistair or with Loghain to unite all forces against the Blight,

[Ausstig]

anmale89 wrote...

. In early concepts of DAO player on the begining of the geme had to choose to go with Alistair or with Loghain to unite all forces against the Blight,

I would like that. 

[Ausstig]

Bump, so we can merge threads.