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[Battlebloodmage]

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Kaidan is nothing like Anders. Anders in the Mass Effect would have joined Shepard to further his cause while Kaidan would never blow up the chantry. One of the things I like about Kaidan is that he's a very composed individual while Anders would do things without thinking about consequences. I don't see the similarity between those two. I don't really see the similarity between those two.

Please keep in mind there are also two incarnations of Anders. There's Awakening Anders who still has his sanity and wasn't as bold or willing to do things outside his comfort zone. Then there's II Anders who will blow up monasteries to prove a point. 

Still don't see it though. Kaidan follows authority while Awakening Anders is a free spirit. Kaidan is often very serious while Awakening Anders is very sarcastic. I would say that Awakening Anders is more similar to Joker. If you want a counterpart for DA2 Anders, it would be a combination of Jack's impulsiveness/irregard for authority and Wrex's desire to help his people.

[Sylvianus]

It's a bit like comparing fire and ice in other words.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 août 2013 - 03:43 .

[Nethalf]

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...
2's companions felt all too cliche and cookie-cutter like knock-offs from ME's cast. Merril was almost like a Tali. Anders was like Kaidan. Varric like Garrus. Isabela like Miranda. Aveline like Samara.

Isabela has nothing to do with Miranda.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I liked Morrigan, Zevran, Shale, Varric, Anders, Isabela, and Merril. I couldn't stand Leiliana, or Alistair, or the DLC character Sebastian (he sat in the Chantry the entire game). The rest I was neutral on. Ha! Anders blew up the Chantry! Yeah!!! So I let him go, and Sebastian is coming back with an army to kill me. lol.

Well, my DA2 character was a liar, cheat and a s***. I usually let Loghain live and had him do the dark ritual in DA:O. So no paragon here.

the lineup will pale without Morrigan.

[Sylvianus]

And Varric has little to do with Garrus, except his popularity. I'm tired to see so many people on this board saying they are the same character simply because almost everyone love them. Not at all. ( I'm fan of Garrus, and I don't like much Varric )

Modifié par Sylvianus, 24 août 2013 - 03:58 .

[GwenWasTheFirstGaGa]

Modifié par GwenWasTheFirstGaGa, 24 août 2013 - 04:03 .

[GwenWasTheFirstGaGa]

Nethalf wrote...

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...
2's companions felt all too cliche and cookie-cutter like knock-offs from ME's cast. Merril was almost like a Tali. Anders was like Kaidan. Varric like Garrus. Isabela like Miranda. Aveline like Samara.

Isabela has nothing to do with Miranda.

Both are initially seen as possibly sleazy and looking to capture the attention of men by their outfits. The crew of the Normandy yammers on and on about Miranda's choice of apparel. You think Isabela might be a tramp off the bat because of her apparel. Both women turn out not entirely to be sleazy tramps, well Miranda at least. And their behavior quickly causes friction with more harder on the edge women who don't appreciate seeing other women being handed things based off their looks. Jack points this out to Miranda. Aveline points this out to Isabela. A comparison compares similarities between two things, and what was listed just now are similarities so a comparison was perfectly appropriate. 

[gangly369]

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...

Nethalf wrote...

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...
2's companions felt all too cliche and cookie-cutter like knock-offs from ME's cast. Merril was almost like a Tali. Anders was like Kaidan. Varric like Garrus. Isabela like Miranda. Aveline like Samara.

Isabela has nothing to do with Miranda.

Both are initially seen as possibly sleazy and looking to capture the attention of men by their outfits. The crew of the Normandy yammers on and on about Miranda's choice of apparel. You think Isabela might be a tramp off the bat because of her apparel. Both women turn out not entirely to be sleazy tramps, well Miranda at least. And their behavior quickly causes friction with more harder on the edge women who don't appreciate seeing other women being handed things based off their looks. Jack points this out to Miranda. Aveline points this out to Isabela. A comparison compares similarities between two things, and what was listed just now are similarities so a comparison was perfectly appropriate. 

So basically, they're both sexy, you say that they are tramps (and then correct yourself and say that only Isabella is, so they aren't really similar there at all), and they don't get along with some other women. So two points in which they are like each other.

Lets ignore the fact that Miranda is a completely by-the-book person, whereas Isabella could care less about the rules. Lets ignore the fact that Isabella has no investment in the Qunari and mage-templar conflict outside her own selfish interests, whereas Miranda is completely invested in a suicide mission for the sake of humanity (and later Shepard). Lets ignore how much trauma Miranda has experienced from dealing with her Father, from trying to protect her sister. Lets ignore how Isabella despite being a liar, despite tricking people around her for her own ends, and despite (potentially) abandoning her friends, is still someone who rejects things such as slavery and will fight for her friends when push comes to shove

I look at Miranda and I see a woman who is willing to do the hard stuff, even if it's all by herself and with no one to help her. I look at Isabella and I see a woman who likes to float through life  and take things as they come. She doesn't like to fight for causes, and she loves to live in the moment.

I see this idea of Isabella (and frankly all of the DA2 characters) being a cookie cutter character as a huge disservice to the writers. The game may have failed in some (many) respects, but certainly not the companion characters. And while there are no doubt more similarities between characters like Miranda and Isabella (such as how they are both leaders, Isabella being a captain and Miranda a head honcho at Cerberus) they still have many, many differences that help to define them as unique characters.

[Nethalf]

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...
Both are initially seen as possibly sleazy and looking to capture the attention of men by their outfits. The crew of the Normandy yammers on and on about Miranda's choice of apparel. You think Isabela might be a tramp off the bat because of her apparel. Both women turn out not entirely to be sleazy tramps, well Miranda at least. And their behavior quickly causes friction with more harder on the edge women who don't appreciate seeing other women being handed things based off their looks. Jack points this out to Miranda. Aveline points this out to Isabela. A comparison compares similarities between two things, and what was listed just now are similarities so a comparison was perfectly appropriate. 

Isabela has rebel and reckless personality. She's all about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. She's all about freedom.
Miranda is focused and a bit control-freaky. Her type is about to hunt down and beat up all those hippies. She's all about law and order.

In fact, they're opposites.

[TuringPoint]

I do hope Inquisition will take after origins a bit more than DA2 did, where companions are concerned. I didn't bond with the DA2 cast quite as well, although I liked them fine, and grew to care about them. There is something to be said for the lengthy conversations of DA:O, and their emotional context.

I played through DA2 recently, thinking I could just do a quick one. It took me 20 hours, skipping through combat as quickly as I could. Maybe half of that is walking around the large outdoor areas over and over, but that's immaterial. A lot of the rest of that time seemed to be exposition and plot, though - involving the companions and important figures, but with fewer opportunities to sit at camp and talk about stuff. I thought that was great, in DA:O, and I expect it to be back in Inquisition. It hasn't been promised, but with a game so much more open-ended, how could they justify going with less?


But I don't buy the comparison with Mass Effect companions. I just don't. It seems like a hopelessly forced way to try and drive a point home, and try to make that point more emotional or even viral, or try to show how emotional the issue is for you.

Modifié par Alocormin, 24 août 2013 - 04:29 .

[wright1978]

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...

I'll be honest, whomever Bioware creates as a line-up of companions they will all pale in comparison to their A-Team, the original companion line-up in Origins. Whether or not you liked 2's party, Origins' was beyond perfect. I hate how people talk so fondly of companions from 2 or refer to them as if they were the best ever. I've played all the installments of the series. I don't think any new companions will impress me. 2's companions felt all too cliche and cookie-cutter like knock-offs from ME's cast. Merril was almost like a Tali. Anders was like Kaidan. Varric like Garrus. Isabela like Miranda. Aveline like Samara.

Sorry but i have to disagree as i think DA2 companions were a massive improvement over the rather weak DAO set.
And your attempt to try and mismatch DA2 to squaddies in completely franchise is just bizarre.

[Ap0crypha]

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...

I'll be honest, whomever Bioware creates as a line-up of companions they will all pale in comparison to their A-Team, the original companion line-up in Origins. Whether or not you liked 2's party, Origins' was beyond perfect. I hate how people talk so fondly of companions from 2 or refer to them as if they were the best ever. I've played all the installments of the series. I don't think any new companions will impress me. 2's companions felt all too cliche and cookie-cutter like knock-offs from ME's cast. Merril was almost like a Tali. Anders was like Kaidan. Varric like Garrus. Isabela like Miranda. Aveline like Samara.

The only thing Isabela and Miranda have in common is their big rack. The only thing Varric and Garrus have in common are their bro-like relationship to the player character and general coolness. Anders and Kaidan are similar, but the latter is actually in control of his emotions and doesn't have a mental breakdown.

And Origins party wasn't "perfect". I never ever got attached to Oghren and would honestly have preferred it if he wasn't included at all, I think Wynne is too nosy and preachy, and it took me a long time to warm up to Sten. They had their ups and downs, like every party.

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...

berelinde wrote...

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...
If you're gonna make promiscuous female compansions in DA:I, at least make a male equivalent. Tired of all the Ice Kings. 

I don't know if "Ice Kings" is word I would use to describe the men of DA2. Anders is about as emotional as it's possible to be without literally dissolving in a puddle of sentiment (and I love him for that!) and Fenris is Passion in a Bottle ™, but neither one of them are terribly light-hearted... but yeah, at this point, I could use a chill male LI who knows how to have a good time.

That's currently my biggest concern about DAI. We know absolutely nothing about the men. I'd like at least one of the males to be totally casual. Varric? Maybe. We don't know what's going on with his life, but I don't think he'd lose his sense of humor. And he does know how to flirt, even if it didn't go anywhere in DA2.

Ice King as in incapable of being loved or questioning why you'd want to love him. Like how dare you hit on me, or why would you even want to hit on me, I'm a bad boy. Which is what Anders is. He's an Ice King. Gives you the cold shoulder when you show affection for him. STAY BACK! WE CAN NEVER BE! And here you are with your genitalia practically in your palm. You move an inch towards him, he steps back a mile. But the women are easy prey. Buy Isabela a beer and she'll play your flute. And Merril, at least she was MAKING advances on you. And I don't know about romancing Varric. I'd feel too much like a trophy wife if I was with him. 

Fenris and Anders DO hit on you, you know. It's only when you flirt BACK that they get surprised and freeze up a little, because they didn't expect you to actually like them in a romantic sense. Anders has a genuinely good point about why you shouldn't get involved with him, and Fenris has a lot of emotional issues. So does Isabela, who is easy to get in bed with, but hard to actually romance. And how could Hawke be Varric's trophy wife? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Modifié par Ap0crypha, 24 août 2013 - 02:59 .

[Tideford]

wright1978 wrote...

GwenWasTheFirstGaGa wrote...

I'll be honest, whomever Bioware creates as a line-up of companions they will all pale in comparison to their A-Team, the original companion line-up in Origins. Whether or not you liked 2's party, Origins' was beyond perfect. I hate how people talk so fondly of companions from 2 or refer to them as if they were the best ever. I've played all the installments of the series. I don't think any new companions will impress me. 2's companions felt all too cliche and cookie-cutter like knock-offs from ME's cast. Merril was almost like a Tali. Anders was like Kaidan. Varric like Garrus. Isabela like Miranda. Aveline like Samara.

Sorry but i have to disagree as i think DA2 companions were a massive improvement over the rather weak DAO set.
And your attempt to try and mismatch DA2 to squaddies in completely franchise is just bizarre.

I guess I would go somewhere in the middle here.  I thought both were fun.  Although, I thought many of the DA2 characters were a little extreme, I still enjoyed them.  I just wish I could hear conversations between Sten and Isabella.

Now back to the first discussion. 

Warriors:
Cassandra
Warden (I hope)
Cullen (I hope)

Warrior or Rogue
Iron Bull

Rogues
Sera (we think)
Varric

Mages
Vivienne
Dorian (we think)

Other Notable Appearances
Morrigan
Leliana
Sebastian (my opinion)

I see many like myself would love to have another dwarf.  The problem is dwarfs cannot use magic.  Also, isn't 2 dwarf rogues a bit redundant?  I don't see how we get two myself.

Modifié par Tideford, 24 août 2013 - 02:57 .

[Angrywolves]

I loved DAO 's characters, didn't care much for DA2's.
Admit being mystified why some players prefer 2's over DAO but they're entitled to their opinion .
Can we get back to discussing DAI's probable character lineup ?
Assuming Dorian and Sera are party members why would Gaider choose them?

[fiveforchaos]

Angrywolves wrote...

I loved DAO 's characters, didn't care much for DA2's.
Admit being mystified why some players prefer 2's over DAO but they're entitled to their opinion .
Can we get back to discussing DAI's probable character lineup ?
Assuming Dorian and Sera are party members why would Gaider choose them?

This Dorian Fellow sounds like a bit of a troll, brilliant, powerful, but absolutely unwilling to do what the other magistar's expect of him, and perhaps inclined to do the opposite just for the sake of pissing them off. The character I'm imagining would own slaves and take them to major public appearances, where he'd proceed to wait on them hand and foot just for the sake of being contrary. I think it would be wonderful to have a character like that in the game, it'd give you some perspective on the Tevinter magisters that isn't coming for a heavily scarred, bitter ex-slave, and he could potentially become quite an enjoyable and amusing addition to the party. Basically, he's there to be the mage who isn't all serious buisness all the time. 

As for Sera, I think it'd be interesting to have a companion, who, according to the leak, is just plain bratty. I'm sure she'd ****** off and annoy a huge number of fans, buy I find that the brattier characters to have rather enjoyable character developments, it would be fun to see her progress throughout the game. I think she's part of the party because she acts as a bit of a balance to party dynamics, she sounds rather youthful in nature, a lot of the other party members, including Varric, look as though they're a bit on the older side if not in actual years then at least in mentality.

Modifié par fiveforchaos, 24 août 2013 - 03:40 .

[Zeldrik1389]

Actually I'm more concerned about how our companions are put into the game. DA 2 supposed to have 9 companions, but 1 will die right at the beginning no matter what (either Carver or Bethany), another 1 will be gone too (again, no matter what you choose, this still happen) at the end of act 1, which we won't be able to use for most of the game. And another one is a DLC (and pretty useless) character. So in the base game, we pretty much had only 6 characters, 2/3 of what we are supposed to have. I felt like I've been cheated to be honest.

Also DA 2 had rather limited companions choice which really bother me. For instance, in DA:O, if I want a heavy warrior, using 2 handed weapons and serves as both tank and damage dealer, both Alistair, Oghren, and Sten can be built that way. In DA 2, the only choice is Fenris (Carver was gone for most part anyway). Or if I need a healer, in DA:O both Wynne and Morrigan can be one, while DA 2's only choice was that whiny Anders.

Hope they won't pull something like that again in DA:I (well still kind of expect a dlc character. Better be a good one).

Modifié par Zeldrik1389, 24 août 2013 - 04:07 .

[ElitePinecone]

Angrywolves wrote...

Assuming Dorian and Sera are party members why would Gaider choose them?

Dorian offers a different take on the mage issue than Vivienne - almost a totally opposite one. 

Whereas Vivienne fervently believes in the necessity of the Circles (even as they're breaking down), Dorian comes from a place where magic users have no restrictions at all. Even if he's trying to stop the worst excesses of the magisters and their general misuse of magic in the Tevinter Imperium, he still wields that power without ever submitting to an external authority like the Templars. 

Sera could be a key plot hook for the elf rebellion that is apparently taking place in Orlais during the events of DA:I.

Concept art has shown her standing on a rock observing a fleet of aravels. 

[Caellis]

Excuse me but Varric is more like James than Varric, in my opinion °3°

[azarhal]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Actually I'm more concerned about how our companions are put into the game. DA 2 supposed to have 9 companions, but 1 will die right at the beginning no matter what (either Carver or Bethany), another 1 will be gone too (again, no matter what you choose, this still happen) at the end of act 1, which we won't be able to use for most of the game. And another one is a DLC (and pretty useless) character. So in the base game, we pretty much had only 6 characters, 2/3 of what we are supposed to have. I felt like I've been cheated to be honest.

Companions are not "we are supposed to have 9, because the game advertise 9". Fenris, Isabela and Sebastian are optional companions, you don't have to recruit them. Bethany/Carver are temporary companions. DA2 force 4 companions on you through the plot: Varric, Aveline, Anders and Merrill. Out of them, only Varric will never leave you because of your actions/rival/friendship (although most of the departure happens at the end of Act 3). On top of not recruiting them, Fenris can be sold and Isabela can leave forever in Act 2.

Varric, Anders and Aveline are all you need for a balanced party, BioWare doesn't care if you don't like them.

But DA2 was better at it than DAO...

DAO only force Morrigan and Alistair on you and both can leave you before the end of the game. You can kill Zevran, Wynne, Leliana and Oghren (Awakening ignore that choice though). You can miss out on dog if you don't do the quest at the camp and aren't a Human noble. You can leave Sten in his cage and not take Leliana at all at Lothering. Shale is a DLC. Zevran can betray you if your friendship isn't high enough as well. Everyone but Alistair will leave if their approval reach -100 and you can't get them to stay. You don't have to recruit Loghain. You can finish DAO without a single companion.

I expect DAI to be similar to its predecessors when it comes to companions:
1. mutually exclusive companions (Alistair/Loghain, Carver/Bethany)
2. beside one or two companions forced by the plot, everyone else is "expendable" (Alistair, Varric)
3. your action can make non-plot centric companion leave/die (Fenris, Isabela, Wynne, Leliana, Zevran, etc)
4. at least one temporary companion at the start (Ser Gilmore, Carver/Bethany, Daveth, Ser Jory, etc)

1. Pretty much means we get only 8 companions at a time.
2. I expect Cassandra to be the plot-centric companion for DAI.
3. GI "creating a party" article says that BioWare want use torn about companions and their views. I took it to mean that if you don't like mages, you shouldn't expect Vivienne to stay around.
4. If we are the only survivor of the Fade Breach, who ever where with us in the tutorial are probably the dead temp companions...

[Angrywolves]

I could see why Dorian would make a good addition.
So who could be the 3rd mage, assuming it's someone from a previous game, dlc book, or comic ?
I have my doubts about this elf rebellion in Orlais. Doubt it could have a realistic chance of success.
Would rather have Tallis than Sera, although I realize some fans don't like her/Felkcia Day.
Maybe Tallis has too much baggage now and Bioware doesn't want any controversies in DAI.
Wouldn't think that would deter Gaider . Having Tallis return would suit his mercurial personality .
I could be wrong about that however.

[daveliam]

Tideford wrote...

I see many like myself would love to have another dwarf.  The problem is dwarfs cannot use magic.  Also, isn't 2 dwarf rogues a bit redundant?  I don't see how we get two myself.

I don't think two dwarf rogues would be redundant.  Were Morrigan and Wynne redudant?  Were Sebastian and Isabella redudant?  I think that if the two characters are different enough (for example, if we got a dwarf similar to Sigrun, who was fairly different from Varric), then it won't seem weird to get two dwarf rogues.

That being said, I just don't see that happening.  We've got zero evidence of a second dwarf, unfortunately.

[GwenWasTheFirstGaGa]

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

Also DA 2 had rather limited companions choice which really bother me. For instance, in DA:O, if I want a heavy warrior, using 2 handed weapons and serves as both tank and damage dealer, both Alistair, Oghren, and Sten can be built that way. In DA 2, the only choice is Fenris (Carver was gone for most part anyway). Or if I need a healer, in DA:O both Wynne and Morrigan can be one, while DA 2's only choice was that whiny Anders.

Hope they won't pull something like that again in DA:I (well still kind of expect a dlc character. Better be a good one).

I agree here. In DA:O you could fully customize your companions. You could make Morrigan into any type of mage you want. While naturally she's a shapeshifter and offensive mage. You have the freedom to reprogram her into your party's healer, nothing is more hilarious than forcing Morrigan to play the support class. And it's fun being able to choose which of the 3 warriors you want to be the tank. While Oghren for the most part is recommended as the 2-handed melee dps, he's not limited to that and you can easily slap a shield on him and tweak his talents so he's an adept protector of your party. I was amazed at how Aveline was the only tank in DA2, I wanted Carver to tank for me at first then I realized he can't equip a shield! And let's not forget how you can't even control your party's wardrobe. I loved putting Morrigan in carnival-colored robes and feathery matronly cowls. She always looked so PO'd.

[daveliam]

Angrywolves wrote...

I could see why Dorian would make a good addition.
So who could be the 3rd mage, assuming it's someone from a previous game, dlc book, or comic ?

No evidence of a third mage.  And if there is a third mage that hasn't been hinted at yet, I don't think it has to be someone we've seen before.  Neither Vivienne nor Dorian were seen before

[Tinxa]

They could do the 3 warriors 2 rogues and 2 mages again.

The 8th and 9th companion could be something out there, like animals or some sort of spirits with unique attacks and abilities (like dog and Shale).

[Angrywolves]

True.
I wonder though if Bioware felt tempted to bring back another old fav character to spur enthusiasm .
Varric doesn't do it for me.
While ok, I wasn't enamored of him and would have been happy without him in DAI.
Bethany from DA2, who I felt was underutilzed/underdeveloped in DA2 would have been nice.
Nathaniel Howe from Awakenings would have been nice.
Maybe Bioware is trying to stay away from using previous game characters for the most part in keeping with this new IP game reborn nonsense Frank Gibeau.
All new characters except for Cassandra and Varric I guess is something we can live with.