418 réponses à ce sujet

[dorktainian]

erezike wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

FTL. not the theory (although it is bonkers) but the fact that when you look out the window you see stars - when that is scientifically impossibru. How can the light from the stars reach you if you are traveling faster than the light from the stars?

Recovering anything of shepard after his/her planetary re-entry & burn up. Just really really stupid.

if he were to burn up, but its a good thing that he never had the the speed to. since he was slowly being pulled to the planet by its gravity from the outer layers of its atmosphere.

he was travelling at whatever speed the normandy was travelling at when it was attacked, which i would suggest was more than quick enough for him to burn up.  The normandy had inertia.  Evasive manuvres not withstanding. Also......he would have been a huge pizza.  There wouldnt have been enough of him left.  

[Erez Kristal]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

erezike wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Slowly? 

And I don't think the fact Shepard didn't burn up is all that important, since, you know, she hits the planet at the end of re-entry. 

She/he hit the planet at terminal velocity as proven above some people even survived the speed of terminal velocity without shepard rocket stopping gear and other hidden inside armor perk such as a possibile electric current paracute(think how he could have survived instead of why not and things will be much simpler)

What is Shepard's terminal velocity, pray tell? 

And all that stuff about parachutes is simple headcanon. Why should I invent reasons for Shepard's survival when we know Shepard didn't survive, and hit the surface of Alchera with force? 

 

shepard terminal velocity could be anywhere from 110 mph-160mph

The argument here isnt about shepard survival its about shepard state at his death.
was he paste? or was he mostly intact?

Evidence lead us to believe that he was mostly intact. it would take quite a lot to turn him into paste and it wasnt presented in game.

[Erez Kristal]

dorktainian wrote...

he was travelling at whatever speed the normandy was travelling at when it was attacked, which i would suggest was more than quick enough for him to burn up.  The normandy had inertia.  Evasive manuvres not withstanding. Also......he would have been a huge pizza.  There wouldnt have been enough of him left.  

the normandy wasnt traveling into the planet, it was traveling at a direction around the planet, shepard didnt have an additional velocity to would amount to friction against the planet athmosphere.

[impingu1984]

Also this whole "shepard was slowly being pulled by gravity so would only hit 120 mph" is BS.

Shepard would travelling at least as fast as the SR1 was when exiting.

This is why when you jump on a moving train you don't spat into the back of the carriage, you are also travelling at that speed.

The SR1 was doing evasive movements so you really think it was stood still?

Sheps fall was not a standing start and speed could easily reach the sound barrier.

NO WAY would Shep remains be mostly intact.

[Steelcan]

tickle267 wrote...

Alchera's atmospheric pressure is 0.83 earth atmosphere's which (correct me if i'm wrong) means that terminal velocity would be greater and therefore shepard will hit the ground with greater force, doing more damage to his body.

Furthermore the speed at which the Normandy was travelling will be the speed at which Shepard is falling.  Throw in friction from the atmosphere burning him to a crisp and Shepard should be a little stain on the side of Alchera.

[billy the squid]

impingu1984 wrote...

Also this whole "shepard was slowly being pulled by gravity so would only hit 120 mph" is BS.

That would be inside the atmosphere (earth) slowing the descent to 120 mph roughly, due to air resistance with the body parallel to the planet's surface. Think of a ballon filled with jelly, dropped out a 5th story window... you get the picture of what happens to a body when it impacts the ground (not landing in a snow drift etc. as every example they have given has some caveate which allows people to survive, all be it crippled)


Atmospheric re entry is different, that's a whole different kettle of fish and is going to be a lot faster and generate huge amounts of heat.

Have a look at what happens on re entry to the human body.

Modifié par billy the squid, 21 août 2013 - 03:27 .

[Steelcan]

Would a joke about Soviet engineering be insensitive?

[impingu1984]

tickle267 wrote...

Alchera's atmospheric pressure is 0.83 earth atmosphere's which (correct me if i'm wrong) means that terminal velocity would be greater and therefore shepard will hit the ground with greater force, doing more damage to his body.

Your right, but Alchera's gracvity is 0.85 and that is also a factor, along with mass, drag, density, and area of object.

But even if Shep "only" hit at 120 mph no way the remains would be intact.... thats still a huge impact. I can't believe it.

[Erez Kristal]

impingu1984 wrote...

Also this whole "shepard was slowly being pulled by gravity so would only hit 120 mph" is BS.

Shepard would travelling at least as fast as the SR1 was when exiting.

This is why when you jump on a moving train you don't spat into the back of the carriage, you are also travelling at that speed.

The SR1 was doing evasive movements so you really think it was stood still?

Sheps fall was not a standing start and speed could easily reach the sound barrier.

NO WAY would Shep remains be mostly intact.

[Erez Kristal]

billy the squid wrote...


Atmospheric re entry is different, that's a whole different kettle of fish and is going to be a lot faster and generate huge amounts of heat.

Have a look at what happens on re entry to the human body.

Its amazing that even that much survived.

[impingu1984]

@billythesquid... totally agree. Actually getting past reentry is unbelievable. Even if shep did a 120 mph impact is huge the g force in a deceleration of 120mph to 0 mph in 0.000000000001 seconds is would just turn shep to a smoothie.

[The Night Mammoth]

erezike wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

erezike wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Slowly? 

And I don't think the fact Shepard didn't burn up is all that important, since, you know, she hits the planet at the end of re-entry. 

She/he hit the planet at terminal velocity as proven above some people even survived the speed of terminal velocity without shepard rocket stopping gear and other hidden inside armor perk such as a possibile electric current paracute(think how he could have survived instead of why not and things will be much simpler)

What is Shepard's terminal velocity, pray tell? 

And all that stuff about parachutes is simple headcanon. Why should I invent reasons for Shepard's survival when we know Shepard didn't survive, and hit the surface of Alchera with force? 

 

shepard terminal velocity could be anywhere from 110 mph-160mph

Based on what? 

The argument here isnt about shepard survival its about shepard state at his death.
was he paste? or was he mostly intact?

Pieces of charred flesh. 

Evidence lead us to believe that he was mostly intact. it would take quite a lot to turn him into paste and it wasnt presented in game.

Yeah, that's part of the point of the discussion though. Shepard shouldn't be mostly intact. She's falling from a height great enough that we can see the curvature of Alchera's surface, starting at whatever speed the Normandy us travelling at, which is probably really fast.

[Erez Kristal]

impingu1984 wrote...

@billythesquid... totally agree. Actually getting past reentry is unbelievable. Even if shep did a 120 mph impact is huge the g force in a deceleration of 120mph to 0 mph in 0.000000000001 seconds is would just turn shep to a smoothie.

as proven in real time events that did not involved superspace suits.
it is not.

dead? sure. but not a smoothie

[Erez Kristal]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Based on what? 


Yeah, that's part of the point of the discussion though. Shepard shouldn't be mostly intact. She's falling from a height great enough that we can see the curvature of Alchera's surface, starting at whatever speed the Normandy us travelling at, which is probably really fast.

angle while falling, differences in athmosphere and gravity from what know about earth and safety measure inside the suit that lowers freefall speed.

the normandy is travelling at a very high speed. but the normandy isnt flying into the planet. shepard is being pulled by the planet gravity which will be the speed of his entry. it will take a very high speed in order to burn away his armor.

in order to persume he will be turned into paste, we need to know the speed of his entry and the tempeture capabilities of his suit. 

Modifié par erezike, 21 août 2013 - 03:40 .

[billy the squid]

impingu1984 wrote...

@billythesquid... totally agree. Actually getting past reentry is unbelievable. Even if shep did a 120 mph impact is huge the g force in a deceleration of 120mph to 0 mph in 0.000000000001 seconds is would just turn shep to a smoothie.

That would be about 400g according to crash tests, 120-0 mph. Enough to turn a person's internal organs into a pile  of mush, that's assuming the impact doesn't break every bone in your body

edit:

I believe the speed of descent on atmospheric re entry is well over 120mph, that is only if you fall within earth's atmosphere. If you are falling from orbit the combination of gravity, velocity and external forces aka an explosion propelling you into the atmosphere is going to accelerate the object before it even hits the atmosphere, hence the terminal velocity of 120 mph goes out the window, as the new terminal velocity will be the external velocity of the object on re entry less the resistance provided by the atmosphere.

The 120mph figure is just the effect of the earth's gravity pulling the object down, inside it's own atmosphere. Orbital re entry has vastly more energy applied to it, so the terminal velocity is significantly higher. 

Modifié par billy the squid, 21 août 2013 - 03:51 .

[The Night Mammoth]

erezike wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Based on what? 


Yeah, that's part of the point of the discussion though. Shepard shouldn't be mostly intact. She's falling from a height great enough that we can see the curvature of Alchera's surface, starting at whatever speed the Normandy us travelling at, which is probably really fast.

angle while falling,

Which is?

differences in athmosphere and gravity from what know about earth

All you know is Alchera's gravity. 

and safety measure inside the suit that lowers freefall speed.

Which dont exist.

the normandy is travelling at a very high speed. but the normandy isnt flying into the planet. shepard is being pulled by the planet gravity which will be the speed of his entry. it will take a very high speed in order to burn away his armor.

The Normandy doesn't have to be flying into the planet, Shepard is already traveling at a ridiculously high speed when Alchera's gravity starts to pull.

in order to persume he will be turned into paste, we need to know the speed of his entry and the tempeture capabilities of his suit. 

I didn't say paste, I said charred bits and pieces. Charred because Shepard fell from over 10,000 miles, and bits and pieces because, not only does she hit the surface at who knows how fast, but was more than likely spinning out of control all the way down.

[KiriKaeshi]

None makes any sense whatsoever... Not even existing sciences bioware managed to get right.

[o Ventus]

KiriKaeshi wrote...

None makes any sense whatsoever... Not even existing sciences bioware managed to get right.

Are you serious?

[AlexMBrennan]

Which dont exist.

Pilots have parachutes, so it stands to reason that soldiers operating in space have some means of safety mechanism that stops them from ending drifting through space at every last explosion.

[Reorte]

A few things...

The Normandy's speed is only one component, its direction also matters. If it's fairly close to stationary relative to Alchera (a few hundred mph is probably irrelevant) then Shepard will fall towards the planet. If it's got any movement in any other direction both Shepard and the Normandy would end up in orbit or, if moving fast enough, whizzing off into space. Since the Normandy was pretty close to the planet the odds are it was going into orbit but if it wasn't quite there yet then the most likely thing to have happened was off into space, or at least a fairly eccentric orbit.

That aside, moving on to terminal velocity. Have a look at www.calctool.org/CALC/eng/aerospace/terminal

Modifié par Reorte, 21 août 2013 - 08:17 .

[capn233]

People shouldn't bother looking into the terminal velocity since it was stupid to have him crash on Alchera to begin with, and they weren't self-consistent on this either.

It sort of depends on the actual composition of the atmosphere, which isn't exactly given.  Probably ~50m/s is the upper limit if it is mostly methane and less ammonia.  That is slightly slower than 55m/s on Earth.

Depends on his mass and the drag from his armor, which is probably actually higher than I am estimating.

Modifié par capn233, 21 août 2013 - 08:42 .

[The Night Mammoth]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Which dont exist.

Pilots have parachutes, so it stands to reason that soldiers operating in space have some means of safety mechanism that stops them from ending drifting through space at every last explosion.

Possibly, but where is it and how does it work if the person has already suffocated? Also, how does it stop them spinning?

[Display Name Owner]

Lazarus. Well, the restoring a dead brain part.

Also, it never sat right with me that Dragon's Teeth can somehow turn someone into a Husk just like that. How are the implants put in, huh?

Oh yeah, and the SR2's armoury's weapon-replicating box.

[Br3admax]

EDI and Jacob make the small arms weapons based off of common designs. I don't see the problem here.