418 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Cool! Post a link to the log about the brain and we'll be in business. 

Because that is a significant hurdle, David. 

What exactly are you looking for, dreamgazer? You're not going to get a full scientific explanation for anything in science fiction. If the authors could do that, they would be sprinting to a patent office, not writing stories.

Then they shouldn't be directly contradicting known science if they can't even work a feasible bullcrap explanation. 

I'm not a detail stickler, and I'm also not a Lazarus "hater", really, but that's kind of a big deal. 

[David7204]

Let me ask again, and let's try for a straight answer this time. What exactly are you looking for, dreamgazer? A 'bullcrap explanation'?

[o Ventus]

David7204 wrote...

I tell you what. If you can write some sample conversations between Shepard and other characters that address that, I might be convinced. What I don't want is pointless conversation that tells that player nothing and has no themes, and is only there to check off a box of 'character must comment about event.'

Show a conversation that goes somewhere meaningful.

What would the point be? No matter what anyone says, you're just going to shoot it down.

[Helios969]

Hands down, synthesis. Melding organic and synthetic life into a new framework..."a new DNA." It just makes me burst out laughing whenever it's discussed.

Lazarus definitely next. I no doubt in the near future medical science will be able to resurrect a dead person, but they'll do so without any cognitive ability. As soon as you die the lack of oxygen would degrade memory. Never mind exposure to the cold vacuum of space would freeze the brain, resulting in the formation of ice crystals that would do massive cellular damage. They might resurrect Shep, but he/she would be brain dead.

I always thought of eezo as comparable to tachyon particles...theoretical particle with negative mass. So I could buy that one. Don't know about biotics though...but they're a lot of fun to throw enemies around with.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask again, and let's try for a straight answer this time. What exactly are you looking for, dreamgazer? A 'bullcrap explanation'?

A feasible one, sure, that appears in the game. 

When brains go dark, they stay that way and everything is lost.  A gap needs to be bridged there, on-screen. 

[LiL Reapur]

Helios969 wrote...

Hands down, synthesis. Melding organic and synthetic life into a new framework..."a new DNA." It just makes me burst out laughing whenever it's discussed.

HAHAHA! You too? As soon as i heard the starchild say "it takes who you are, what you've been through, and breaks it down" I Crapped my pants!

[David7204]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I really fail to see how the quality of my creative writing skills would prove or disprove that people should be slightly confused that someone has risen from the dead, and that just accepting it like he was late to a meeting is or isn't weird.

Hanar, you do not add repeated and meaningless dialogue in stories. You do not do it. You don't! That's just the end of it! It's something you do not do. And you're not doing a very good job of convincing me this dialogue wouldn't be repeated and meaningless.

Shepard meets Tali on Freedom's Progress. What happens, according to you? Where does this conversation go? Does the exact same conversation happen when Shepard meets Garrus? Liara? Anderson? The other squadmates?

Give me a very rough draft of how a conversation might pan out with Tali on Freedom's Progress. Basic overview of the themes and conclusions of the conversation.

[David7204]

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask again, and let's try for a straight answer this time. What exactly are you looking for, dreamgazer? A 'bullcrap explanation'?

A feasible one, sure, that appears in the game. 

When brains go dark, they stay that way and everything is lost.  A gap needs to be bridged there, on-screen. 

So this explanation would convince you otherwise, then? That function can be restored to a brain?

[Tron Mega]

David7204 wrote...

LiL Reapur wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Has it ever occured to you that people just blindly accepting a person coming back to life with no questions is just weird?

This

No. Because that isn't true at all. There's no reason to assume anyone 'blindly accepts' anything.

The question is not whether conversations happen.

The question is whether you show it to the player.

Yes, every character probably talks extensively with Shepard about Lazarus. But it happens off screen. There's no reason to show it to the player unless it adds something to the experience. And having dozens of characters repeat the same line of how incredible Lazarus is adds nothing to the experience.

Same thing for conversation about every other event of the series. Yes, they're probably talked about extensively. But having characters repeat what the player already saw or already knows is tedious and clumsy. You don't do it. It's just assumed to happen off screen.

its not a difficult question to anwer: yes, show it to the player. ....like, duh! right?

what team of bad developers decides to not think something like killing the protagonist and bringing them back to life within the first 10 moniutes of the second entry is something that wont add to the expereince?

how long did the discusion go up at bioware braintrust about killing shepard in the first 10 minutes of hte game, in a cutscene? was that meeting as long as the one about tlis face reveal?

.....all this topic does is reinforce how much i think bioware sucks.

[DeinonSlayer]

*opens thread*

*sees David arguing brain decay again*

*contributes a picture of a duck to the discussion*



*closes thread*

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Let me ask again, and let's try for a straight answer this time. What exactly are you looking for, dreamgazer? A 'bullcrap explanation'?

A feasible one, sure, that appears in the game. 

When brains go dark, they stay that way and everything is lost.  A gap needs to be bridged there, on-screen. 

So this explanation would convince you otherwise, then? That function can be restored to a brain?

That a dead brain can be revived to a point of normal functionality (complete with memory) in the home body, yes. That would cover my irks with the physical side of Lazarus.

"Citadel Savior" Shepard being resurrected still needs to be discussed on a larger scale, though.

[AlexMBrennan]

Never mind exposure to the cold vacuum of space would freeze the brain, resulting in the formation of ice crystals that would do massive cellular damage

I think research is being done on how such damage can be prevented, and if such an "antifreeze" chemical was discovered then it would make sense to add it to the emergency trauma units.

I would actually be willing to believe that ME-advanced technology would be able to conserve a very nearly dead body like Shepard (shot, suffocated & stranded in space) in such a way that would be recoverable (e.g. Cutting to black with the last thing Shepard heard being "stabilizing orbit... activating emergency cryopreservation" would have been enough for me) but they showed atmospheric reentry in ME2 (big problem) and admitted that Shepard had been brain dead in ME3.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 20 août 2013 - 11:48 .

[The Night Mammoth]

David7204 wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

I really fail to see how the quality of my creative writing skills would prove or disprove that people should be slightly confused that someone has risen from the dead, and that just accepting it like he was late to a meeting is or isn't weird.

Hanar, you do not add repeated and meaningless dialogue in stories. You do not do it. You don't! That's just the end of it! It's something you do not do. And you're not doing a very good job of convincing me this dialogue wouldn't be repeated and meaningless.

Which page in the Professional's Writing Bible is this rule on?

[LiL Reapur]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Bottom line: It should confuse people when a friend, especially one that fell into a planetary orbit and burned up, comes back to life with no other explaination than "a terrorist organization with a lot of money revived me".

Again, This........

[David7204]

There's no strawman here, Hanar. Conversation for every character that adds shock at Lazarus but no other meaningful content is not good enough. That alone is going to be tedious and clumsy.

All I'm looking for here is a reasonable indication that meaningful content could be attached to this. That these conversations could be something and go somewhere aside from just every character exclaiming shock at Lazarus for the upteenth time and the playing going through the same rehersal in reponse every time. That's it. That is a completely reasonable and justifed request, and in utterly no way a strawman at all.

As it is, nobody here has met that bar.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 11:51 .

[Clayless]

Fully dressed instant Asari clones? Please.

As for Lazarus, I've always assumed most people didn't actually believe Shepard was dead. In fact most people seem to react that way, I know I would if I lived in the ME galaxy and someone who I'd heard of "came back from the dead".

Modifié par Robosexual, 20 août 2013 - 11:53 .

[LiL Reapur]

Robosexual wrote...

Fully dressed instant Asari clones? Please.

IKR!!!!

[Seboist]

Robosexual wrote...

Fully dressed instant Asari clones? Please.

That's a result of BW being spineless and/or prudish, much like having strippers that don't strip.

At the very least they could have had the armor/outfit become some kind of exoskeleton type thing on the clones.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

As it is, nobody here has met that bar.

Nobody here has met your bar, and you're giving them little reason to do so.

[David7204]

So far, nobody here has met any bar above a dozen or several dozen conversations repeating the same content the player was well familiar with at the beginning of the game.

Modifié par David7204, 20 août 2013 - 11:58 .

[LiL Reapur]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Biotics. A fictional radioactive mineral give you superpowers.

srsly, bioware

Not to go completely off topic, but i smell a meme from that sentence

[Helios969]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Never mind exposure to the cold vacuum of space would freeze the brain, resulting in the formation of ice crystals that would do massive cellular damage

I think research is being done on how such damage can be prevented, and if such an "antifreeze" chemical was discovered then it would make sense to add it to the emergency trauma units.

I would actually be willing to believe that ME-advanced technology would be able to conserve a very nearly dead body like Shepard (shot, suffocated & stranded in space) in such a way that would be recoverable (e.g. Cutting to black with the last thing Shepard heard being "stabilizing orbit... activating emergency cryopreservation" would have been enough for me) but they showed atmospheric reentry in ME2 (big problem) and admitted that Shepard had been brain dead in ME3.

That's certainly true, however, Shep would have needed to have the "antifreeze" in his/her blood system prior to exposure.  An explanation in the narrative that his/her suit injected such would have aided plausibility of Lazarus.