590 réponses à ce sujet

[ladyiolanthe]

Lord Raijin wrote...
It doesn't intimidate me at all. I'm just sick of tired of reading ridiculous complaints from the feminists regarding to lack of models of female Inquisitors. IMO that is NOT all that important. Whats truly important is the quality of the game, and the story... not which gender gets posted up on the cover.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I also think that the quality of the game is very important. And one of my markers for a quality game, beyond graphics, combat systems, etc. is the inclusion of female protagonists not just as a customizable option in the shipped game, but throughout the marketing stages. In the future, when no one blinks an eye at female protagonists because they are just that commonplace, I'll probably drop that off my list of 'must-haves'. But for now, since it's still pretty rare, and BioWare has, for better or for worse, set itself up to champion the representation/inclusion of women in their games (among other groups), I don't think we're asking for the moon, here.

I also don't think BioWare has been completely negligent to its female fanbase; we are in early stages here and, as a result, they might only have pictures of male PCs in all the various armour combinations they've designed. That's fine. Hopefully, later on, we'll see more female protagonist material (and I suspect we will). That being said, I do think they missed an opportunity to be more inclusive with the Gamescon video. If they had even just verbally mentioned female Inquisitors somewhere in its 3:12 length, this whole BSN thread could probably have been avoided.

[Zombie_Alexis]

Just going to jump in and say that I, too, was disappointed that the Female Protagonist was not mentioned in the video. I love Bioware games because I can play as a female PC and because female characters in the Bioware games I've played are written as people first, female second. That is a refreshing and wonderful thing. And I do get Bioware's point that most people on these forums know that playing as a female PC is an option. But what about people who haven't played any of these games? They're not going to be able to tell by what has been shown. I just think that assumption is taking a lot for granted. But personally, I got a little bit of the hurty feels because I felt like I was being ignored. Again. You fellas out there who keep saying that it's not a big deal can only say that because it's no big deal *to you* because you are catered to in 99% of the games that are made. It means a lot to me as a female gamer to be acknowledged and respected.

That said, I am confident that as more info comes out, there will be more information on playing as a female. I'm hoping that when they finally spotlight the character creator, there will be more emphasis on the female Inquisitor as an option.

[MisterJB]

AutumnWitch wrote...
Easy, if you romance Merrill the choices and options are 100% the same. I can tell you for a FACT that lesbians and men do NOT romance (date/interact) the same. Period.

I will admit that Merril is not my choice of romance but a quick youtube search has lead me to believe both romances; at least as far as their first intercourse goes; have distinct spirits to them. In the male video I saw, Merril was expressing how human-elven couples are looked down upon amongst the Dalish due to their status as an endagered species; the implication here being that Merril could get pregnant and birth a human, I assume; and in it's female counterpart, Merril is expressing wishes of being more like Hawke. Thus, the experience varies depending upon Hawke's gender.

Some lines are the same, yes, I saw that but what exactly is it that makes one line more appropriate for men rather than women. For instance, one of the lines I saw used was by both Hawkes was " I don't mind. You're cute when you're flustered."
Now, what exactly makes this line not gender neutral?

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Leninmp, OH NO YOU CAN'T.

Changing gender is impossibly, just like changing sexuality.

Changing SEX on the other hand, IS possible.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Impossible*

[MiSS Provencale]

waouhh nearly 10 pages on this topic!! There are really good arguements I hope bioware listen to us ... Finally, we read that

[Nyneve]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Nyneve wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...
(I mean in real life you can't change your gender, not in character making hehe)

Yes you can.

You can change the gender you present as. One's gender identity is out of one's control.

Not saying you can exactly choose what gender you identify as, just that it can change over time.

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Leninmp, OH NO YOU CAN'T.

Changing gender is impossibly, just like changing sexuality.

Changing SEX on the other hand, IS possible.

What about genderfluid people? They can change what gender they identify with. Biological sex and gender don't have to align.

Modifié par Nyneve, 20 août 2013 - 08:17 .

[Beerfish]

AutumnWitch wrote...

pdusen wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

I agree a gender neutral POV is probably optimal. But how do you do that? Is there a way for either a woman or man to step back and write something completely gender neutral? And if so, would it be as interesting? I agree with you gender is very very fluid and having a real neutral POV would be great! 

As an experiment, a male and female writer could each write all of the lines for the inquisitor, and then get together and decide which lines from each set that they both find acceptable.

In my blog right now I am writing a small story (I post each day) about the my female, lesbian Hawke after the events of DA2. Its only just begun (ten posts) but one of the things I will be doing is trying to show the world through her eyes and her situation (and Merrill's as her partner). Follow that and I think you might see the subtle differences in which we experience the world.

I don't see how you can speak for a whole large group of people anymore than you expect others not to speak for you.  How can you speak for every lesbain couple and how they feel.  You are stereotyping in the same way others have been accused of stereotypeing for years.

What you get with the BioWare games is equal in game content.  Themakle protag can be nice or naughty or an **** or a grump or a hero.  Can dump companons romance many.  Females can do just the same.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Genderfluid people don't ACTIVELY CHOOSE to change their gender, unlike when someone ACTIVELY CHOOSES to change their hairstyle.

[Maria Caliban]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Leninmp, OH NO YOU CAN'T.

Changing gender is impossibly, just like changing sexuality.

Changing SEX on the other hand, IS possible.

People do change gender identity and sexual orientation over time. Not to mention people whose gender identity isn't fixed.

Nyneve wrote...

Not saying you can exactly choose what gender you identify as, just that it can change over time.

Right.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 août 2013 - 08:20 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

They may choose which sex they associate more with, but they can't control the stuff going on in their brain anymore than I control being gay.

[Nyneve]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Genderfluid people don't ACTIVELY CHOOSE to change their gender, unlike when someone ACTIVELY CHOOSES to change their hairstyle.

Yeah. I think there's some misunderstanding here, because that's what I'm trying to say. English isn't my 1st language, sorry

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Maria, the post above yours should apply to your comment as well I think.

[esper]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Genderfluid people don't ACTIVELY CHOOSE to change their gender, unlike when someone ACTIVELY CHOOSES to change their hairstyle.

Actually some off them do. The same with sexuality fluid people.

Edit. Though I do think it is a minority, I have come across one of two would on Aven who would be very offended if you said that they didn't have the right to choose what to identify as.

Modifié par esper, 20 août 2013 - 08:21 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Nyneve

Haha, no problem mate

[John Epler]

While this is a good discussion on gender identity, I think it's a bit beyond the scope of the thread, and probably best served in PMs or in a private group.

[Am1vf]

I know several gamers who didn't know you could play as a female in ME and ME2, and yes they saw the marketing and wanted to play a sci-fi action-RPG, the main reason they didn't play Mass Effect is they thought Sheploo was the only playable character.

[phunx]

Filament wrote...

I'm just not sure I like the assumption that I didn't think much of it merely because of my "male privilege."

I didn't notice it at all, until it was pointed out to me. What else could it be?

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Esper, I'll say it again.

They choose which gender they associate more with, but they can't control the stuff going on in their brain any more than a lesbian woman or asexual man or whatever can just wake up and choose to be attracted to men.

[fiveforchaos]

I'm actually a little worried, I was googling around, and I can't find out where it says there actually will be a female inquisitor. What if they took that part out to make way for the dwarves and elves option?

[Maria Caliban]

John Epler wrote...

While this is a good discussion on gender identity, I think it's a bit beyond the scope of the thread, and probably best served in PMs or in a private group.

Sorry.

Do you know if we might have trailers with a female Inquisitor like they did with ME 3?

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 20 août 2013 - 08:22 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Mr Epler

Point taken, I shall refrain from discussing it further.

[Soundsystem]

AutumnWitch wrote...

pdusen wrote...

AutumnWitch wrote...

I agree a gender neutral POV is probably optimal. But how do you do that? Is there a way for either a woman or man to step back and write something completely gender neutral? And if so, would it be as interesting? I agree with you gender is very very fluid and having a real neutral POV would be great! 

As an experiment, a male and female writer could each write all of the lines for the inquisitor, and then get together and decide which lines from each set that they both find acceptable.

In my blog right now I am writing a small story (I post each day) about the my female, lesbian Hawke after the events of DA2. Its only just begun (ten posts) but one of the things I will be doing is trying to show the world through her eyes and her situation (and Merrill's as her partner). Follow that and I think you might see the subtle differences in which we experience the world.

There are always different ways different groups interact and experience the world. Sadly, in games we're not at the point where it is remotely feasible to account for all these variables and give each a unique story that suits. 

As it stands now the simplest way to give as much equality as possible it to give everyone the same experience, baring some minor differences. Hence male and female PC's experience events in much the same way, save for occassional NPC comments about gender.

I would personally love a game with a lesbian PC, from that POV, but I don't think it would be Bioware that makes it since Bioware tends not to have a set PC that cannot be customized. Maybe some day we'll see this from a game company, but even now I think if we saw it it would still be very much "lesbians for the male gaze", but maybe I'm just a cynic. 

[pdusen]

Soundsystem wrote...

And you are the one who gets to decide what is reasonable and what isn't?

How convient.

Just because an issue doesn't affect you doesn't make caring about it unreasonable. 

No, I certainly am as capable of being unreasonable as everyone else.

I get that many female gamers feel that their lack of representation in game marketing is an open wound. But that is a feeling, and letting that be the basis of your disappointment is, by definition, unreasonable.