590 réponses à ce sujet

[lady_v23]

Scr0ll wrote...

I love this Fem Inquisitioner.  (Sorry on phone, so strange formatting. )http://i1284.photobu...or.png~original

Hazegurl wrote...

Youth4Ever wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

Parmida wrote...

LOL! I may be the only girl, but I enjoyed seeing that peace of beefcake Inquisitor in his full glory in leather armor and a FABULOUS hat! So hot!

I know! LOL! I wonder if we can customize the body type so I can build the man of my dreams.

Yes! Male Inquisitor = HOT. And as a black female too, I don't really care about seeing a female Inquisitor in advertising. I'd really only care if she were non-white, but since that's unlikely to be the case, I just don't care. I've had much better luck with the character creator when making male protagonists anyway and that probably won't change. Male PC for me it is.

Right! I really don't give a fig about whether or not they show some female inquisitor, she's going to be white anyway if they did show her. I love the male PCs too and will continue making them. Besides, I'm more likely to play the game if I see a hot guy on the cover anyway. That's how Mass effect got me. 

I rather love this picture.  Not only is the character a bald female, but she's black.  I really like diversity!


and the picture shows that we will be a very important and power figure.  Which is lovely to my inner power hungry gold digger dark side.

Modifié par lady_v23, 20 août 2013 - 10:08 .

[Sylvianus]

David Gaider wrote...

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...
For the record, I don't really care that one developer used the word "he" in one specific vid posted early in the marketing cycle. I more find this thread a good place to reiterate my desire for Bioware to include female PCs in their marketing targeting the "mainstream" audience. It's one thing to *have* content that promotes inclusion of underrepresented groups and a whole other thing to promote that content. It's pretty pointless if the only people who know the content exists are the hard core RPG crowd who hangs around on these forums.

Yes, those are good points.

I'm going to play a little Devil's Advocate here and say that, from the perspective of those who market games, the primary purpose of marketing is to get information about the game to people who don't know about it and/or aren't planning on buying it. It's not to speak to people who already know about the game... so I think, from their perspective, it might seem like a pointless argument to be made by fans on a forum to ask that they be marketed to when they know more and are more invested in the game than almost anyone.

So the argument offered above is more credible-- it's possible there might be an element of "thanks for the advice" if one's suggestion is that we market to a particular group (and do so better), but that might at least seem like a less self-serving argument in the context of this forum.

Remember that we are, after all, talking about the marketing of the game and not about the game itself. I think most people here are clear on that, but it's worth repeating as I've noticed some of the issues being brought up as blending into larger issues.

And, to also be clear, this is a dev diary -- there's still plenty more to come over the next year. That doesn't invalidate any concerns someone might have, and they're absolutely worth expressing... let's just tone down the rhetoric a notch or two, please.

I don't think the sentence of the guy was just the issue for most female gamers in this thread. It's the fact that the female inquisitor was almost non-existent , even more if we add this sentence in context. Many people hoped that we were done with the marketting of the past , and * bam * with the dev diary, it felt a bit suddenly the same. Given that this * new * path isn't really certain yet, it was fair to be worried a bit.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 20 août 2013 - 10:20 .

[Sandy]

While I agree on principle that as a RPG Dragon Age: Inquisition could benefit from showing of female protagonists in marketing (as well as non-human ones now that race-selection is back in), I am pretty sure that Bioware will do this once the actual marketing starts to really get going. In ME3 we got some femshep trailers, a cover and various femshep marketing after all, so I don't worry about not getting that for DA:I. I do however think it is a bit to early to start to worry or complain (not saying that anyone in this thread is) about the use of words as "he" or "him" in a development video or text more than a year away from release.

Fact is, it is fairly common to specify a person in written text or spoken language as "he" if the person isn't named or otherwise specified, as it simplifies the sentence and gives a general understanding that it is a certain person that is the focus of said sentence. Also, going as far as writing or saying "the person" or "he and/or she" over and over would often sound forced, odd and overly long.

Maybe it's becuase I'm a man, but when I hear "he" or "him" and I know that they aren't talking about a specific person, I always think "he/she/whoever". When I went to law-school (where you quickly learn the value of good, simple but sometimes generic pronouns) I also quickly found out that "he" is used almost exclusively when refering to a person that isn't given a title, position or role.

I't an odd tangent I assume to argue the semantics about the use of he and she, but what I am saying is I don't hink it is at all strange for Bioware to use "he" or "him" for the Inquisitor, as long as they show that the Inquisitor can also be female (ONCE the actual marketing phase of the game begins).

[Jessabeth]

lady_v23 wrote...

http://i1284.photobu...or.png~original
I rather love this picture.  Not only is the character a bald female, but she's black.  I really like diversity!

As a straight woman, I can get behind that woman as an Inquisitor. Just sayin. xD

Modifié par Jessabeth, 20 août 2013 - 10:18 .

[ladyiolanthe]

Jessabeth wrote...

lady_v23 wrote...

*snip*

I rather love this picture.  Not only is the character a bald female, but she's black.  I really like diversity!

As a straight woman, I can get behind that woman as an Inquisitor. Just sayin. xD

I think she'd make a great female protagonist for marketing purposes, agreed.

Modifié par ladyiolanthe, 20 août 2013 - 10:24 .

[GuardianGamerX]

it seems my post may have been overlooked ^^; it's on the 14th page concerning a bit to the mage class if anyone wants to read it

[Jessabeth]

ladyiolanthe wrote...

I think she'd make a great female protagonist for marketing purposes, agreed.

To me, she just oozes strength. I'd definitely love to see her (or someone similar) as our female PC. 

[Jessabeth]

GuardianGamerX wrote...

it seems my post may have been overlooked ^^; it's on the 14th page concerning a bit to the mage class if anyone wants to read it

Your post was likely "overlooked" because this isn't a conversation about mages. It's about PCs not being shown as women in the marketing (though the marketing hasn't really started yet, imo).

So your post was off topic, hence no response.

[Hazegurl]

If the black woman in the pic is the marketed female PC. Then right on!!

Modifié par Hazegurl, 20 août 2013 - 10:28 .

[GuardianGamerX]

yea I just saw the topic so I may of misunderstood

[David Gaider]

Sylvianus wrote...
I don't think the sentence of the guy was just the issue for most female gamers in this thread. It's the fact that the female inquisitor was almost non-existent , even more if we add this sentence in context. Many people hoped that we were done with the marketting of the past , and * bam * with the dev diary, it felt a bit suddenly the same. Given that this * new * path isn't really certain yet, it was fair to be a worried a bit.

That's fair. I'm not saying the concern has no basis-- at all.

I'm just saying that people already on this forum asking that marketing be directed at them (whether that's by female fans or by hardcore fans who will eventually get very loud when future trailers and interviews don't answer their questions) when marketing is intended primarily for people who don't know about the game is a difficult argument to make.

It's one thing to ask for representation in a game. It's another thing to ask for representation in a game's marketing-- and, even if you disagree that there's any difference in that, to ask for equal face time in every single piece of marketing. Such as this one, which is no doubt just the first of many to come. I wouldn't write everything off just yet because a single dev diary didn't show off a bunch of assets which we don't actually even have just yet.

That said, while I'm not the person who controls how this sort of subject is approached, I can say I think the point has been made. I think those who are up the food chain have heard it. And I'm saying tone down the rhetoric slightly-- on both sides, as I don't think it's fair to say that anyone complaining about this issue has no basis for it whatsoever either. They do, and it's a concern not solely restricted to BioWare either-- indeed, I think some people expect more from us. So, fair enough.

[Hazegurl]

Youth4Ever wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...
Here's something for a real challenge, let's see a black female inquisitor PC But I won't be holding my breath for that,

If she really was non-white I'd be IMPRESSED! But, yeah, like you, I won't hold my breath.

Right, if it's the black woman in the pic holding that flag, then color me impressed. If not. oh well. lol! still not holding breath for it though.

[SilentK]

 I have faith that we will see something with a female Inq in marketing one day, and I really look forward to it:wizard:

However I see the point of including a female PC as more than just being fair, I see it as presenting important information. My husband bought DAO and I was pretty meh about it, prefer to play female characters so at that time it was all about Tomb Raider. We had no idea that you could play as a female character when he got the game. But as soon as he told me I could actually role play as a female I have loved my BioWare games. I order our CE's and get all the dlc. 

It is a little bit scary to me how easily I could have missed out on all these wonderful games, it is actually the hobby that I put most of my free time into. There is no secret handshake when you go into a gamestore that let's you know that you can play as a female. It might not even be mentioned on the box. How will you then know that they exist? It think we could do better for the female gamers who have yet to discover BioWare than simply using word of mouth or lucking out like I did. 

Little things like just mentioning that you can play as a female would be great!

[Jessabeth]

Hazegurl wrote...

If the black woman in the pic is the marketed female PC. Then right on!!

I would definitely be alright with this. 
POCs rarely get the spotlight, especially in fantasy. 
Plus, she just makes me swoon a little. xD 

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@David, I accept most of what you're saying, but there's one thing I take issue with:

I know that there isn't as much concept art of the femquisitor yet -I understand that- but.....*why*?

[David Gaider]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
@David, I accept most of what you're saying, but there's one thing I take issue with:

I know that there isn't as much concept art of the femquisitor yet -I understand that- but.....*why*?

You'd have to speak to the art team about that. My take on it is that they go through a LOT of iteration to get the right "look" ...and then they will eventually extrapolate from that to extend that look to the other race/gender combos. It would be pointless to develop them simultaneously.

That's not to say there's been no thought to what they female PC looks like. Matt Rhodes and his team sometimes include a female PC in any concept pieces they're working on (a few you've seen in the dev diary, some hang on our wall, and many more you simply haven't seen yet) just to mix things up and to make sure the team is keeping it in mind. But insofar as the armor appearances go, we simply don't have as much-- and that's what the customization section was displaying (you'll note in that "here's all the different appearances" bit it didn't show different races either-- just armor customization, and I'm sure that was their intent).

And I'm sure we start with the male appearance first because that's the one most people will play. As I said before, that's surely not even in question.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 août 2013 - 10:46 .

[jmk1999]

i'm sure they'll post more eventually... after all, look at the success of femshep on ME3's art... and probably a lesser extent to femhawke on DA2. to ignore that publicity altogether would be foolish marketing.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Fair enough, although I don't really have a way of speaking to the art team about it.

[Kalas Magnus]

you are getting worked up over nothing

[ruggly]

Anyone got a link to this video people keep mentioning?

[Allan Schumacher]

I know that there isn't as much concept art of the femquisitor yet -I understand that- but.....*why*?

Just to follow up, while concept stuff is often used in marketing, it's not generally created for marketing. It's created as reference for the team as a whole, and especially the modelers and so forth. John will look at some concepts and be all "that is a bit extravagant and will cause issues, while Mike will look at the various aspects and go "i like this, I think this looks poor.  Improve on this" and so forth.

They clearly have done some, however (he may not have the tag under his name, but Matt Rhodes is one of our concept artists and did the "Coronation scene"). But for stuff like the armor, there can be significant advantages on sticking with a basic rigging and just iterating different styles on top of the same rigging to show proof of concepts.

Now if someone has a deadline to deliver a whole bunch of concept art for various types of character armor, there probably isn't going to be much feedback of "you should vary up the model's skin color and gender for these concepts" as opposed to a focus on the designs themselves. Now, we could start with the base model as being a woman. I don't know if there are any costs associated with that in terms of production. David has commented that male characters are more commonly chosen, so there's a degree of "well, if we HAVE to pick something... which one should we pick?"

When you're talking about scene sketches, like the "coronation" it is a bit easier to mix things up somewhat because you're creating the entire scene. When you're creating stuff like armor mockups, there's a speed advantage for just sticking to the same base model.


It's a bit like when I create test content for conversations. There's a plain, featureless hairless entity that I used for all of DA2's conversation testing. I had a full party of those featureless chaps running around, because I didn't need a perfect Hawke running around. Spending time mixing and matching the party members up with a variety of in game characters doesn't actually help me perform the tests.


And this stuff is created for our benefit to help us create the content in a particular way.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 20 août 2013 - 11:00 .

[Lord Raijin]

Hazegurl wrote...

If the black woman in the pic is the marketed female PC. Then right on!!

They better have Wanda Sykes voicing the female PC

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

With all due respect Kalas, I'm not alone in thinking that equal presentation isn't 'nothing'.

[Maria Caliban]

ruggly wrote...

Anyone got a link to this video people keep mentioning?

Enjoy.

[ruggly]

Thank you very much.