590 réponses à ce sujet

[carine]

SelectMongoose wrote...

Yeah, I mean when they specifically mention "you can play as an elf or a dwarf or a human" it seems that would be a very natural place to mention you can play as male or female as it's one of the big cc decisions like race or class.

Yep, I noticed this too. It just doesn't make sense why they wouldn't mention gender in that as well.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Sanues, I live in England and when the referring to either gender, we use the word 'themself'.

Sorry, but himself ALWAYS means a male person.

[esper]

ladyiolanthe wrote...

I was mildly annoyed by the lack of female Inquisitors in the video, too. However, several people have tweeted some of the devs about it, so the devs are aware of the oversight. They variously expressed surprise that anyone would assume that the PC couldn't be a woman (based on BioWare's track record, which is lightyears ahead of other companies in this respect). This is a fair point.

However, the people who brought it to their attention also made fair points:

- Why bother specifically mentioning that you can play rogues, warriors or mages, humans, elves or dwarves, but neglect to mention that you can play female or male, which is as much of a selling point for some people?

- People who are familiar with BioWare's games already will assume you can play male or female, but what about new audiences? It's worth mentioning it, since in many games you can only play male. Again, this is a selling point for some people.

Not just new customers. There was a brief moment where I was considering not buying da2, because they constantly showed and marketed male Hawke that I thought that bioware had gone to set protagonist and I no longer could play a woman. I was this close to not playing any bioware game again. (Then I looked it up).

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

When referring*, shouldn't be a 'the' in there.

[Taleroth]

carine wrote...

SelectMongoose wrote...

Yeah, I mean when they specifically mention "you can play as an elf or a dwarf or a human" it seems that would be a very natural place to mention you can play as male or female as it's one of the big cc decisions like race or class.

Yep, I noticed this too. It just doesn't make sense why they wouldn't mention gender in that as well.

Gender is assumed and treated as such.

Race choice could not be assumed and has to be pointed out.

[andar91]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Yes, sorry Andar you already linked me to that, I forgot to reply. We have a single image of a female inquisitor compared to many many more of the male inquisitor, then. One single image.

In a survey which wasn't intended to be released to the public, and most certainly doesn't count as marketing.

Oh, I wasn't equating it to marketing lol. I was just showing that they apprently have at least one piece of concept art, as you had wondered if they had any.

I agree with your points thus far.

[MiSS Provencale]

Sylvianus wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Here is a female Inquisitor taming a bloody dragon!

We have no clue it's the female inquisitor.

This is only picture for female inquisitor.... 50 for male.... No equality again....:whistle:

[David Gaider]

Yeah, I mean when they
specifically mention "you can play as an elf or a dwarf or a human" it
seems that would be a very natural place to mention you can play as male
or female as it's one of the big cc decisions like race or class.

Fair, but we don't allow you to play as every race in every game we make.

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Besides, in the video we saw today we saw about 20 different versions of the male inquisitor wearing different armour. How difficult would it have been to make 10 female and 10 male?

Depends on the assets we have available-- and that comes from concept work, which was done on the male version of the PC first. I suppose you could ask "well why don't you work on both genders at the same time?" And I don't really know the answer to that. They pick one, and everything else spawns from that.

While it would have been nice to hear us mention it more in the video (everyone here knows we allow a player to pick, and always have, but it's worth repeating for others), I personally found it nice to see that many of the concepts presented in the video used either the female PC or a version that was ambiguous enough to be either gender.

Modifié par David Gaider, 20 août 2013 - 05:37 .

[Sanunes]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Sanues, I live in England and when the referring to either gender, we use the word 'themself'.

Sorry, but himself ALWAYS means a male person.

According to the Cambridge dictionary...

Used to refer to an object of a verb that is the same person or animal as the subject of the verb, when referring to a person or animal whose sex is not known or not considered to be important:

According to the Websters dictionary...

Used reflexively when the sex of the antecedent is unspecified <everyone must fend for himself>

[MiSS Provencale]

I think even if the male inquisitor is "canon" for you (sorry I'm French and some English words are foreign to me ...) it would nice to see the concept art female inquisitor even for other races (elf and dwarf).

[OLDIRTYBARON]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@oldirtybaron,

Of course I don't work for EA marketing, don't try to use such a manner of arguing.

I know you don't, I was hoping you know you don't, too. Neither of us have seen any marketing that suggest the Inquisitor is male or female. At all. That's what I was pointing out.

So you're saying, apart from all the men featured in those things you listed without a single woman, how is there a lack of woman being featured? Umm....

All the men...? You mean the developers? Are you arguing about the developers in the video being men? If you are, that's silly. Incredibly silly.

Or are your referring to the concept art slide where they, as I said, chose one race and one gender to show the various armours of? If you're wondering about the concept art, a real, logical reason to choose one race and one gender is to highlight the customization involved in choosing your armour. If you show a bunch of races or even both sexes, you're not imparting the true scope of customization for a single choice. Considering this was a dev diary and not an ad during the Super Bowl, it's not the end of the world.

Besides, in the video we saw today we saw about 20 different versions of the male inquisitor wearing different armour. How difficult would it have been to make 10 female and 10 male?

Read above.

Timing is not an issue considering they could easily be shown at the same time in that regard.

If you truly believe this then you know nothing of video editing. Timing is everything when you put a video package like that together. Instead of showing ten of each sex, they chose to show twenty (the arbitrary number you chose, understand) of one sex and through that we come to understand the true depth of options we'll have as the Inquisitor. 

I'm not trying to be mean here, but you're coming off of this whole thing like you're looking for a problem. There isn't one.

[esper]

David Gaider wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...
Besides, in the video we saw today we saw about 20 different versions of the male inquisitor wearing different armour. How difficult would it have been to make 10 female and 10 male?

Depends on the assets we have available-- and that comes from concept work, which was done on the male version of the PC first. I suppose you could ask "well why don't you work on both genders at the same time?" And I don't really know the answer to that. They pick one, and everything else spawns from that.

While it would have been nice to hear us mention it more in the video (everyone here knows we allow a player to pick, and always have, but it's worth repeating for others), I personally found it nice to see that many of the concepts presented in the video used either the female PC or a version that was ambiguous enough to be either gender.

Maybe I am just cynical, but when it comes to role playing games I am conditioned to assume ambigious = male. I have been burnt far, far too many times to think anything else.

And I don't think everyone here is really your problem. Your problem is all the female (and male that wants to play female) gamers that don't follow bioware closely. As said in my example above I had initially gotten the impression that I couldn't play female Hawke, and I had to convince a friend of mine that, yes, you could play female shephard. And we are both fairly well versed in the game world.

You shouldn't really assume that this is common knowlegde.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Sanues, well I';ve never met a single person in real life who's used it as such, so maybe I've just led a very sheltered life I guess ^^

@David, I wouldn't find it annoying if it didn't *always* seem like they start male first. I don't think it's just an 'eeny meeny miney mo' situation there.

Also, I apologise but could you point out which art in the video was of a female PC? Sorry, it's just I looked and most seemed to me to be male, and one or two looked slightly ambiguous (although as I say, one of the ambiguous ones had the exact same clothes and weapon on as a male pc did earlier, so).

[esper]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Sanues, well I';ve never met a single person in real life who's used it as such, so maybe I've just led a very sheltered life I guess ^^

@David, I wouldn't find it annoying if it didn't *always* seem like they start male first. I don't think it's just an 'eeny meeny miney mo' situation there.

Also, I apologise but could you point out which art in the video was of a female PC? Sorry, it's just I looked and most seemed to me to be male, and one or two looked slightly ambiguous (although as I say, one of the ambiguous ones had the exact same clothes and weapon on as a male pc did earlier, so).

There was a woman sitting on a throne, when they were talking about choice, but that was really blink and you miss it.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I don't understand why this is a big deal. How exactly do you refer to a person without using words like "him" or "her" and not sound robotic and artificial?

[esper]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't understand why this is a big deal. How exactly do you refer to a person without using words like "him" or "her" and not sound robotic and artificial?

You say their in english. Or the could just use the Inqusitior, but the trouble is that did not even mention you could play as female.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@oldirtybaron, saying "Neither of us have seen any marketing that suggest the Inquisitor is male or female. At all." simply is not true, did you see the Armour versions they showed in the video? These videos *do* count as marketing; they're being shown at games conferences after all.

"All the men...? You mean the developers? Are you arguing about the developers in the video being men? If you are, that's silly. Incredibly silly."

Nope, I was referring to the male PC versions we saw in the concept art. I don't care at all how many actual men are on the development team.

"If you show a bunch of races or even both sexes, you're not imparting the true scope of customization for a single choice": isn't making your character female a customisation choice? And a fairly big one at that. To be honest if it were a choice between seeing 20 different armours on the same guy or 10 different armours on 2 different people, I would rather see them on 2 different people. Most of the armours were in the background anyway, and yet not a woman in that line up.

"If you truly believe this then you know nothing of video editing" Ok, just so I'm clear, you're saying that taking 10 men out of the armour line up and replacing them with women in the exact same spot would have made the video longer? I don't understand :/
"

[andar91]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't understand why this is a big deal. How exactly do you refer to a person without using words like "him" or "her" and not sound robotic and artificial?

The Inquisitor themself.

Or you can use gender-neutral pronouns, which I am not as good with. Thinks like ze and zir.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Darth Brotarian, for the second time that was not the main focus of my OP. I'm talking about concept art here; the quote in the title was just a good way of making the purpose of this thread clear.

[Siona]

I agree with the OP that there was a bitter humor in showing off this mass of the exact same white dude while talking about how much you can customize your character (and not to mention totally leaving out that you can play as a woman). His words would have been so much more affective if he'd actually shown the different races, genders, skin tones, etc etc that you can be. Instead it was just the same guy in like 20 different outfits.

It's one thing to talk about it, but I'd like them to show it more, and want even more for them to actually showcase it. If there's any hope I have for DA3's marketing, it's that it'll actually put their diversity of choice into the spotlight.

[Siona]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't understand why this is a big deal. How exactly do you refer to a person without using words like "him" or "her" and not sound robotic and artificial?

"They" or "them" has been a general gender-neutral term for decades. Or they could use him or her interchangably.

[OLDIRTYBARON]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@oldirtybaron, saying "Neither of us have seen any marketing that suggest the Inquisitor is male or female. At all." simply is not true, did you see the Armour versions they showed in the video? These videos *do* count as marketing; they're being shown at games conferences after all.

"All the men...? You mean the developers? Are you arguing about the developers in the video being men? If you are, that's silly. Incredibly silly."

Nope, I was referring to the male PC versions we saw in the concept art. I don't care at all how many actual men are on the development team.

I figured, but you never know.

"If you show a bunch of races or even both sexes, you're not imparting the true scope of customization for a single choice": isn't making your character female a customisation choice? And a fairly big one at that. To be honest if it were a choice between seeing 20 different armours on the same guy or 10 different armours on 2 different people, I would rather see them on 2 different people. Most of the armours were in the background anyway, and yet not a woman in that line up.

They didn't explicitly state you could play as female, this is true, but there was a specific reason that every developer referred to the player as "The Inquisitor" and only one person called the protagonist a he. You're taking issue with the one person when the rest of the developers were quite careful in their wording. My point is, one guy ****ed up and you made a thread about him ****ing up.

Like I said before, in regards to the armour concept art, they chose one race and one gender to represent the wide array of armours and dress styles to give you a well rounded idea of the scope you're dealing with. If that ONE developer didn't say "himself", would you have made this thread, or would you have commenced with the squeefest that has overwhelmed the BSN? I'm betting on the latter.

"If you truly believe this then you know nothing of video editing" Ok, just so I'm clear, you're saying that taking 10 men out of the armour line up and replacing them with women in the exact same spot would have made the video longer? I don't understand :/
"

My argument was with your comment about timing being irrelevant.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Esper, the person on the throne is so shrouded that even if it was a woman it might as well have not been. IF we are going to be treated to male protagonists being shown with their faces out and doing battle, and just the female with her head completely obscured, then I would rather not see female PC at all atm and just wait until they actually show her.