590 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

Steelcan wrote...

Becuase DA forums are appaprently the best way to enact social change against injustice

This, however, I don't think is fair.

It's pertaining to DAI and obviously important to some people because they evidently identify as gamers, and are fans of the franchise.

If it's about a holistic, collective approach, it's applicable to be discussed anywhere.  Given it isn't ostensibly off topic, I see no issue with the thread's concerns, in and of itself.

[Allan Schumacher]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I ran across an optional update of this rule that I kind of like, personally: use the term that represents your own gender.  So a man would always use "he" for an unknown party and a woman would always use "she". 

That is sort of how I historically used it.  Although I find myself reverting back to "they" because it's easier to deal with "you write poorly" commentary.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 21 août 2013 - 06:57 .

[MiSS Provencale]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Becuase DA forums are appaprently the best way to enact social change against injustice

This, however, I don't think is fair.

It's pertaining to DAI and obviously important to some people because they evidently identify as gamers, and are fans of the franchise.

If it's about a holistic, collective approach, it's applicable to be discussed anywhere.  Given it isn't ostensibly off topic, I see no issue with the thread's concerns, in and of itself.

Allan thank you I'm glad that the forum can help us to express ourselves. even though I know that the game will be great, it is just sad to see arts concepts on male inquisitor.

I just hope that in the near future we will have more on the concept female inquisitor.

[JediBeagle]

Interesting topic OP! Definitely something that needs to be talked about.

Still, at this point I don't really see a huge problem yet as all we have seen of the inquisitor so far has been concept art and the sandstorm part in the first trailer. Concept art is supposed to be just that: a concept, not the final product. As such the gender of a character the player will customize anyway doesn't really matter. Making two similar concept art pieces with only a variation in the character's gender is time consuming and costs money. There is no reason as to not mix up the genders in different concept arts however and I'm sure there is concept art with a female inquisitor. Hopefully we'll get to see more of that art too!

As far as the he/she divide goes I must confess that I had not paid atention to it. This could however be because I'm not a native English speaker and while I've been using English for the last 16 years I've noticed most native speakers often don't care if they use he or she in a casual conversation.

As for the concept of balance of genders in leading game characters I agree with OP. I too would like to see more female leading characters in game advertising. I think Bioware did well with the marketing material for ME3 so I hope we'll get to see something similar with DA:I.

[ianvillan]

To me it seems the main problems come from the marketing department being separate from the main developers.
It is the developers like Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider who know the fans the best and what they would and would not want marketed to them, yet it seems that they have no say in the marketing of the game but the people who work of a marketing formula that they use for anything they want to market just seems to treat all games the same.

Biowares past marketing has had problems delivering to some fans, I know that marketing's job is to get new fans in but they also have to market to existing fans as well and if they get it wrong it causes confusion and resentment before the game is out which can cause bad word of mouth to the new fans they were trying to attract in the first place.

Maybe it is time that Biowares marketing department was integrated more into the forums and have Mike and David have a lot more say in the marketing as well so that the marketing department knows what is being talked about and would have an idea what problems might arise with certain directions of the marketing.

[Paul E Dangerously]

ianvillan wrote...
Maybe it is time that Biowares marketing department was integrated more into the forums and have Mike and David have a lot more say in the marketing as well so that the marketing department knows what is being talked about and would have an idea what problems might arise with certain directions of the marketing.

The problems with this are that the forums are but a minor part of the fanbase. A lot of fans, and in particular fans of Bioware's older work that have been put off by the last two titles, will likely never post here.

[Soundsystem]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Becuase DA forums are appaprently the best way to enact social change against injustice

This, however, I don't think is fair.

It's pertaining to DAI and obviously important to some people because they evidently identify as gamers, and are fans of the franchise.

If it's about a holistic, collective approach, it's applicable to be discussed anywhere.  Given it isn't ostensibly off topic, I see no issue with the thread's concerns, in and of itself.

Allan, thank you for all your comments in this thread. Specifically your wall of text post.

I was one of the more vocal commenters in the thread (before I went to work anyways) and I just wanted to say that even in criticising Bioware I'm just saying "Hey, here's some things you may want to consider" not "Bioware didn't show me a woman in a short YouTube clip burn them!" Haha. 

I know it must be hard to put something out and be proud and excited, but then have it be critiqued.

Bioware is one of few game companies that I've really felt have handled and written female characters very well. I think that because we, or I, feel cared about (as brushyourteeth said) is one reason I feel I can actually share these things with hope of being listened to. I don't go on other developers forums, or even other gaming forums because of the ridiculous level of sexist (and homophobic and racist) things that go on. I don't feel that way with Bioware. In sharing things like "MOAR LAYDEEZ" I don't just feel like I'm talking to a brick wall with no hope of ever being lsitened to.

__________________


Sidebar from several pages earlier: How bad do I want that bald black female Inquisitor to be the 'canon' female PC? She looks so tough and amazing. As a queer female I'm not sure if I wanna be her or sleep with her. (Both? Haha.)

Modifié par Soundsystem, 21 août 2013 - 08:04 .

[ianvillan]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

ianvillan wrote...
Maybe it is time that Biowares marketing department was integrated more into the forums and have Mike and David have a lot more say in the marketing as well so that the marketing department knows what is being talked about and would have an idea what problems might arise with certain directions of the marketing.

The problems with this are that the forums are but a minor part of the fanbase. A lot of fans, and in particular fans of Bioware's older work that have been put off by the last two titles, will likely never post here.

I am not saying listen to just the forums because I know there are other sites and fans that don't come here, and I know that the fans on this forum would probably struggle to agree what colour the sky in the next game should be. I think the marketing department should have a presence in the forums to get a feel for how they should do some marketing of the game at least to minimise some of the problems with gimmicks that alienate fans (Awesome Button I am looking at you).

[fchopin]

It would have taken a few seconds to mention that you could play both male and female inquisitors when the armour was shown but only male armour was ready to show so don’t understand why Bioware keeps making a defence that they were not ready.

I am sure most females would have been happier for now if they just mentioned that both male and female roles could be played.

Bioware keeps talking about fair for both genders but keeps forgetting when it comes to pr.

[Dave of Canada]

fchopin wrote...

Bioware keeps talking about fair for both genders but keeps forgetting when it comes to pr.

Everyone said they kept forgetting prior to Mass Effect 3's marketing went full-force and then it couldn't be stopped about them talking about female Shepard and how great she is, etc.

We know nothing of the Inquisitor, I'd worry more about gender portrayal once we actually know how the Inquisitor looks like and they're trying to market the game rather than just talking about the game in general.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 21 août 2013 - 09:06 .

[Paul E Dangerously]

fchopin wrote...
I am sure most females would have been happier for now if they just mentioned that both male and female roles could be played.

Bioware keeps talking about fair for both genders but keeps forgetting when it comes to pr.

Does it need a mention when it's pretty much always been that way? I'm having a hard time thinking the last Bioware game that didn't let you play a female character.

[Caellis]

We have to remember that, for now, the Inquisitor is more of a concept, an idea, than an actual person

[phunx]

Sopa de Gato wrote...
Does it need a mention when it's pretty much always been that way? I'm having a hard time thinking the last Bioware game that didn't let you play a female character.

Yes the focus was on new fans and fans who disliked DA:2 it seems. But new fans may not know that you can play a female and to put majority of the effort into showing 20 - 35 white guy badass dude armor seems a bit disappointing. DA has a lot of strenghts that should be pointed out, diversity is one of the big ones IMO.

[Paul E Dangerously]

phunx wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...
Does it need a mention when it's pretty much always been that way? I'm having a hard time thinking the last Bioware game that didn't let you play a female character.

Yes the focus was on new fans and fans who disliked DA:2 it seems. But new fans may not know that you can play a female and to put majority of the effort into showing 20 - 35 white guy badass dude armor seems a bit disappointing. DA has a lot of strenghts that should be pointed out, diversity is one of the big ones IMO.

I have to question how many new fans are paying so much attention to a game this far away from release. If this were a huge release trailer like the one we got at E3, you might have something. But it's not.

[fchopin]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

fchopin wrote...
I am sure most females would have been happier for now if they just mentioned that both male and female roles could be played.

Bioware keeps talking about fair for both genders but keeps forgetting when it comes to pr.

Does it need a mention when it's pretty much always been that way? I'm having a hard time thinking the last Bioware game that didn't let you play a female character.

Someone who has not played Dragon Age games has no idea that you can play any gender.Are they making games only for people who play the games?

[Paul E Dangerously]

fchopin wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

fchopin wrote...
I am sure most females would have been happier for now if they just mentioned that both male and female roles could be played.

Bioware keeps talking about fair for both genders but keeps forgetting when it comes to pr.

Does it need a mention when it's pretty much always been that way? I'm having a hard time thinking the last Bioware game that didn't let you play a female character.

Someone who has not played Dragon Age games has no idea that you can play any gender.Are they making games only for people who play the games?

Someone who's never played the Dragon Age games probably has no idea what's going on, either.

[fchopin]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Someone who's never played the Dragon Age games probably has no idea what's going on, either.

So why not tell them at least that they can play any gender?

[Paul E Dangerously]

fchopin wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Someone who's never played the Dragon Age games probably has no idea what's going on, either.

So why not tell them at least that they can play any gender?

Because it's a nothing trailer just to show off a few artistic elements and not the ten minute primer to Dragon Age people seem to think it is?

[fchopin]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

Because it's a nothing trailer just to show off a few artistic elements and not the ten minute primer to Dragon Age people seem to think it is?

It only takes a few seconds to say that you can play both genders it does not take 10 minutes.
 
Don’t forget that being able to play both as male or female is a great feature and should always be shown instead of concealed.

[wiccame]

Taint Master wrote...

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Heh, I thought I was going to be the only one who noticed and was bothered by it, how wrong I was.

They, their, them, themselves; those are the terms you need to be using when talking about the PC, though I would applaud BioWare if they bucked the trend and went with her, herself, she.

I was disappointed to see so much concept art and almost none of it of a female Inquisitor (I actually didn't see any female Inquisitor art, but apparently there was). Made that part of the video rather boring to be honest.

Also very disappointed from reading the BioWare responses in this thread to hear that they design the male models first. It's typical of game development, but it's also a massive problem in game development and the reason why so many games never include female models for entire factions in their games. Blizzard is particularly bad at this (if a new enemy race is introduced in WoW, you can bet it will be all male), but this is also a pretty big problem at BioWare, as evidenced by their numerous games that haven't bothered with female models (DA2 and dwarves, Mass Effect and most of the races except for the very last game).

Lets be honest.  You're still going to buy the game anyway or you wouldn't be posting here with every Bioware game ever made on your profile.  So what difference does it make?  Just like in presidential elections, candidates campaign hardest in swing states.  Not states they've already cornered.

Exactly, Bioware already have the straight white male market cornered, wouldn't it be more beneficial to try and encourage a different market. Straight males are completely pandered to in all aspects of marketing and in game content (extras) whatever. Whereas females and gays tend to have a little carrot thrown to them and be told, there we thought of you be happy. Not very equal and not a good way to encourage other players that are not the straight male group.

[Neon Rising Winter]

wiccame wrote...

Exactly, Bioware already have the straight white male market cornered, wouldn't it be more beneficial to try and encourage a different market. Straight males are completely pandered to in all aspects of marketing and in game content (extras) whatever. Whereas females and gays tend to have a little carrot thrown to them and be told, there we thought of you be happy. Not very equal and not a good way to encourage other players that are not the straight male group.

And to be fair to Bioware, they are acting in a way that suggests the non straight white male market is somewhat more in their minds than it is for most companies. So it seems only fair to give them feedback from that market about the elements of their presentation that might be improved to appeal to it more.

[wiccame]

Narrow Margin wrote...

wiccame wrote...

Exactly, Bioware already have the straight white male market cornered, wouldn't it be more beneficial to try and encourage a different market. Straight males are completely pandered to in all aspects of marketing and in game content (extras) whatever. Whereas females and gays tend to have a little carrot thrown to them and be told, there we thought of you be happy. Not very equal and not a good way to encourage other players that are not the straight male group.

And to be fair to Bioware, they are acting in a way that suggests the non straight white male market is somewhat more in their minds than it is for most companies. So it seems only fair to give them feedback from that market about the elements of their presentation that might be improved to appeal to it more.

Oh I know that, but it still seems more like a token gesture at times...DA I agree are very good at equalizing that but you look at mass effect and swtor and you know who is more targeted at.

[wiccame]

krul2k wrote...

TBH Bioware doesnt have any market "tied" down or cornered so to say they should market x more than y is just as silly as saying to continue to market y more than x

You're right, 'cornered' is probably too strong a word, what I mean is that is already their biggest player base.