590 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRacer]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

You say their in english. Or the could just use the Inqusitior, but the trouble is that did not even mention you could play as female.

It's becoming more and more common now, but I was actually taught (by my not at all old, female University Professor) to use "he" in gender neutral context because she was of the mind that you do not match the plural "they" (or it's equivalents) with a singular noun, and constant use of "he or she" everywhere ends up becoming distracting and wordy.

For better or worse. From then I saw usage in that context to be similar to referring to "man" or "mankind" when referring to "****** sapiens." Although I have started to revert back to using "they" since people would read too much into my usage of the word "he" (whether on BSN or otherwise)

A quick reference.
http://oxforddiction...she-versus-they


EDIT: As for the concept art, I can't really answer why it was drawn more with male characters instead of female ones.

Just wanted to chime in and say that, having been an English major back in college and considering myself a rather literary sort, that your professor is correct in how language has been presented thus far, which is with a male pronoun representing all people or gender-neutral language.

I sometimes wonder if I am the only female on the boards who doesn't get up in arms about male-heavy promotions of games. It really, really does not bother me. At all. Even slightly. Especially from BioWare, which has been wonderful at giving us awesome female versions of protagonists (cannot properly express how much I love Jennifer Hale as Commander Shepard, or my female Warden and female Hawke).

I'm almost certain someone will want me to hand in my "woman card" for not being ardently feminist about all this, but there you go. My 2 cents.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Taint Master's post from page 19

I literally am in DISBELIEF that I have to explain this again, so I'll do it in the rudest, bluntest way possible (next time read the thread, yeah?).

We. Are. Not. Saying. That. We. Won't. Be. Able. To. Play. As. A. Female.

We. Are. Saying. That. Both. Genders. Deserve. Equal. Marketing.


Before you are rude about someone's posts and calling them whiny, perhaps reading the 18 preceding pages of explanation and discussion may help JUST ONE TINY BIT.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Updating the OP because I'm tired of this nonsense.

[Friera]

Sylvianus wrote...



They showed this, so I'm not sure why they couldn't replicate the same with a female inquisitor. Unless they didn't work on it yet.

Ohmygod he looks hot <3


Anyway, I tend to not like female protagonists in videogames, so although I do see your point, Im happy they marked the Inquisition as a male (Before calling me a sexist, and female)

Modifié par Friera, 21 août 2013 - 11:43 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

You can be sexist and female at the same time, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Friera]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

You can be sexist and female at the same time, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Indeed. But people tend to find that sort of comment so much worse if they believed a was male.

[WildOrchid]

Personally, I am so fed up with the male pandering.

At least i'm happy that the Dragon Age team does a far better work than the Mass Effect team who failed miserably when it came to female Shepard. No single mention of her in trailers (just one, ha), pictures etc. Seeing always the maleShep was so frustrating. And also, she had the worst romance options in gaming history and also she didn't had a facemodel (whereas lame characters like Kai Leng and Allers had facemodels but not the female protagonist? That was something very stupid). They treated her as the 'optional' gender. I'm hoping in future ME games, they will give the female fair treatment (yeah sure).

And i will be forever grateful with the DA team and how they handle the romances and the female protagonist, even if she wasn't in the cover or trailers of DA2 (which still was a bad move)

I'm hoping to see some female Inquisitor arts in the future and a proper marketing. I doubt it's hard to market both genders, it is? Or better, don't show any face.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Friera wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

You can be sexist and female at the same time, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Indeed. But people tend to find that sort of comment so much worse if they believed a was male.

Actually your point is more indicative that what people are saying here does apply. You tend to not to like female protagonists and prefer the male based marketing. So I presume acknowledge that female based marketing might appeal more to people who did prefer them?

Modifié par Narrow Margin, 21 août 2013 - 11:49 .

[Friera]

Narrow Margin wrote...

Friera wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

You can be sexist and female at the same time, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Indeed. But people tend to find that sort of comment so much worse if they believed a was male.

Actually your point is more indicative that what people are saying here does apply. You tend to not to like female protagonists and prefer the male based marketing. So I presume acknowledge that female based marketing might appeal more to people who did prefer them?

As I said, I do see the problem with the lack of marketing for female audience. I agree that it is wrong too. But my selfish own opinion does not mind the male-based marketing.

Modifié par Friera, 21 août 2013 - 11:53 .

[badboy64]

WildOrchid wrote...

Personally, I am so fed up with the male pandering.

At least i'm happy that the Dragon Age team does a far better work than the Mass Effect team who failed miserably when it came to female Shepard. No single mention of her in trailers (just one, ha), pictures etc. Seeing always the maleShep was so frustrating. And also, she had the worst romance options in gaming history and also she didn't had a facemodel (whereas lame characters like Kai Leng and Allers had facemodels but not the female protagonist? That was something very stupid). They treated her as the 'optional' gender. I'm hoping in future ME games, they will give the female fair treatment (yeah sure).

And i will be forever grateful with the DA team and how they handle the romances and the female protagonist, even if she wasn't in the cover or trailers of DA2 (which still was a bad move)

I'm hoping to see some female Inquisitor arts in the future and a proper marketing. I doubt it's hard to market both genders, it is? Or better, don't show any face.

I agree.

[phunx]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

I have to question how many new fans are paying so much attention to a game this far away from release. If this were a huge release trailer like the one we got at E3, you might have something. But it's not.

Yes, you do have a point new fans probably aren't paying much attention yet. But I'm still glad people pointed it out, if nothing else for future reference and to widen my perspective a bit.

[Ozzy]

I got a good laugh out of that topic title.

[Taint Master]

WildOrchid wrote...

Personally, I am so fed up with the male pandering.

Male pandering?  It's pre-alpha footage! 

If the female assets aren't fleshed out yet, there's nothing to show.  And for people claiming it's somehow a huge injustice that the devs/artists design the male templates first... why would that even matter from the consumer's point of view???  We all get access to the content at the same time, who cares which was designed first?

The game is still over a year away.  I'm sure the people at Bioware HQ have a handle on their time management.  They're not going to forget and leave out all of the female armor.

The promo primarily centered on multiple races being selectable (a feature missing from DA2) and the open world design.  Gender has been selectable since the begining and obviously isn't changing... so why does that even bear mentioning?

Can't people just enjoy the pre-alpha leaks for what they are without trying to find something to feel slighted over?  Must every new announcement be met with the pitchfork brigade?

BTW I'm mixed-race irl, so until we see Inquisitors of every ethnicity represented in the promos I am going to feel like a victim and make sure everyone on these forums hears about it!  Over and over and over...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Steelcan wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

How in the name of all that is holy is this an important subject?? It is just a part of the development cycle to start out with the male protagonist designs, and it is also because the english language does not have an asexual term for a third person character, so they have to say "him" or "he". Saying "she" "her", or "herself" jsut for the sake of saying it, is just as sexist as saying "he" "him" or "himself" to avoid using a female pronoun..

Becuase DA forums are appaprently the best way to enact social change against injustice

There has been an injustice? 

Saying "himself" about a person of unknown gender is the way the english language works. There is no word for unknown gender, so you have to pick one, and the language have just evovled so that it is the male one that is naturally picked first. Woop-di-****ing-doo.
Saying "her", just for the sake of using the female pronoun is just as sexist, as it is racist to create a black character just for the sake of having a black character.
And regarding the concept art, why exactly is it sexist to just show the male protagonist concept art? Are people implying that BioWare havn't made any female protagonist concept art? In that case people are most likely wrong. Or are they complaining that BioWare didn't show the female concept art they might or might not have ahd ready? In which case they aren't really complaining about a sexist issue, but rather an issue about what material was ready for show, and what weren't.
In any case, this is not really a gender issue, and I have a hard time comprehending why someone seems intend on blowing this way out of proportion.

[Zombie_Alexis]

Pointing out an oversight is not "blowing this way out of proportion". Just because female gamers would, for once, like to see marketing that is not exclusively aimed at male gamers does not make us unreasonable. It is a valid comment to make. And it's not just the video, if you look at the Dragon Age website, all of the art work shows nothing but a male Inquisitor and there is nowhere on the site that indicates specifically that you can play as female. Granted, I know you can, you know you can, but what about someone who knows nothing about Dragon Age and is curious about the game and goes to the official website to learn more? There is no indication that you can play as either sex. Yes, it's an oversight that the developers have acknowledged and I assume that this will be remedied in further updates, but that does not mean that this is not a valid concern. This may not seem a big deal *to you*, but I assure you, feeling ignored when your money spends just as good as someone else's is not an unreasonable reaction.

[Xilizhra]

Saying "himself" about a person of unknown gender is the way the english language works. There is no word for unknown gender, so you have to pick one, and the language have just evovled so that it is the male one that is naturally picked first. Woop-di-****ing-doo.

As mentioned prior by the actual English professor... no, really, it's not.

[TK514]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Taint Master's post from page 19

I literally am in DISBELIEF that I have to explain this again, so I'll do it in the rudest, bluntest way possible (next time read the thread, yeah?).

We. Are. Not. Saying. That. We. Won't. Be. Able. To. Play. As. A. Female.

We. Are. Saying. That. Both. Genders. Deserve. Equal. Marketing.


Before you are rude about someone's posts and calling them whiny, perhaps reading the 18 preceding pages of explanation and discussion may help JUST ONE TINY BIT.

OP is still nothing more than a premature whiny complaint when a polite request would have been more appropriate.

[MiSS Provencale]

Many people who play DA played a female protagonist since DAO female Hawke had some success.

I add that we have a lot of girls to be on the forum. This is one more reason to change that Bioware and listens to her female audience

[Taint Master]

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

 This may not seem a big deal *to you*, but I assure you, feeling ignored when your money spends just as good as someone else's is not an unreasonable reaction.

So you're basically saying any promo material that doesn't explicitly reference you is completely ignoring you.  Is there really nothing at all interesting or relatable in that video solely because the protagonist template is male?

I'm still waiting on that multi-ethhic Inquisitor art.

[L. Han]

What is the matter with you people? Can BioWare ever do anything without treading on some toes?

[WildOrchid]

Taint Master wrote...


Male pandering?  It's pre-alpha footage! 

I wasn't talking about the video, but in general. There is male pandering. Too much pandering.
And people will discuss about it over and over and over until developers from all games get the damn message that we want variety.

Modifié par WildOrchid, 21 août 2013 - 01:51 .

[Wissenschaft]

WildOrchid wrote...

Taint Master wrote...


Male pandering?  It's pre-alpha footage! 

I wasn't talking about the video, but in general. There is male pandering. Too much pandering.
And people will discuss about it over and over and over until developers from all games get the damn message that we want variety.

 

Thats only going to happen when female players pay as much if not more than your male counterparts so good luck with that. Do we even have a clue what the ratio of Male to Female players among Dragon Age players is?

Though yes, the least that can be done is for the main website to mention that you do in fact that you can play as either sex. At least we have seen artwork with a female PC.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 21 août 2013 - 02:01 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Rickets, absolutely. I have beem incredibly satisfied with everything done about DA:I until this point. So have most people.

@Sahlertz, I have lived in England for 22 years, andf the gender neautralterm that is actually used by the english people is 'They'. Not he, they.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@TK514, with all due respect, don't try and tell me how to be polite when you are insulting me directly in the same sentence.

[GloriousDame]

WildOrchid wrote...

Personally, I am so fed up with the male pandering.

At least i'm happy that the Dragon Age team does a far better work than the Mass Effect team who failed miserably when it came to female Shepard. No single mention of her in trailers (just one, ha), pictures etc. Seeing always the maleShep was so frustrating. And also, she had the worst romance options in gaming history and also she didn't had a facemodel (whereas lame characters like Kai Leng and Allers had facemodels but not the female protagonist? That was something very stupid). They treated her as the 'optional' gender. I'm hoping in future ME games, they will give the female fair treatment (yeah sure).

And i will be forever grateful with the DA team and how they handle the romances and the female protagonist, even if she wasn't in the cover or trailers of DA2 (which still was a bad move)

I'm hoping to see some female Inquisitor arts in the future and a proper marketing. I doubt it's hard to market both genders, it is? Or better, don't show any face.

Absolutely agree with this.  I don't care what anyone else says, the way FemShep's romance options were handled was nothing more than an afterthought to catering to male Shep.  Dragon Age set a great example for all other games out there, including Mass Effect, in terms of treating their female and male protagonist equally- at least in terms of romance options, if not in marketing.   Kudos to DA! 

And while I doubt the female Inquisitor will get as much marketing as the male, I know and trust that DA will do its very best to treat them both fairly at least in the game- and I'm happy with that.

Modifié par ArinTheirinCousland, 21 août 2013 - 02:03 .