590 réponses à ce sujet

[d-boy15]

Rickets wrote...

What is the matter with you people? Can BioWare ever do anything without treading on some toes?

Welcome to BSN

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

And it's not premature, because the devs have admitted that they have no idea why the Art team does male artwork first. They have also said on this *very* thread that these complaints are completely valid.

[Neon Rising Winter]

WildOrchid wrote...

Taint Master wrote...


Male pandering?  It's pre-alpha footage! 

I wasn't talking about the video, but in general. There is male pandering. Too much pandering.
And people will discuss about it over and over and over until developers from all games get the damn message that we want variety.

Yes, consider the underlying assumption in the comment. It's pre-alpha footage, why would we expect to see a female protaganist at this point because obviously the male one is the default. And previous evidence suggests that default will last an awful long way down the promotional process, long long past pre-alpha. Which is why it's being commented on so early.

[Wissenschaft]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Rickets, absolutely. I have beem incredibly satisfied with everything done about DA:I until this point. So have most people.

@Sahlertz, I have lived in England for 22 years, andf the gender neautralterm that is actually used by the english people is 'They'. Not he, they.

 

Thats just incorrect English. One of the pet peeves of one of my college professors was students using they as if its a gender neutal alternative. They is for plural use only. Pick he or she. Just because the public butchers the language in their daily use of it does not mean you should butcher it in your writting. Or so sayeth my professor. lol

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 21 août 2013 - 02:06 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@d-boy 15, stop being silly, almost everyone, including myself, has been incredibly satisfied by what we've seen sofar.

Yes, it's easy to jump on the 'BSN complain about everything' bandwagon, but when the developers themselves agree that these are valid complaints, I have absolutely no idea why you feel that it is applicable here.

[Neon Rising Winter]

Wissenschaft wrote...

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Rickets, absolutely. I have beem incredibly satisfied with everything done about DA:I until this point. So have most people.

@Sahlertz, I have lived in England for 22 years, andf the gender neautralterm that is actually used by the english people is 'They'. Not he, they.

 

Thats just incorrect English. One of the pet peeves of one of my college professors was students using they as if its a gender neutal alternative. They is for plural use only. Pick he or she. Just because the public butchers the language in their daily use of it does not mean you should butcher it in your writting. Or so sayeth my professor. lol

Of course if people keep on butchering it in the same way over and over, sometimes that becomes a new correct usage. And then their heads will literally explode.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Wissenchaft, I got an A* in English Language GCSE and A level.

They is not for plural use only. Look it up.

While 'he' may also be gender neutral, it is also used FAR LESS often.

[GloriousDame]

Wissenschaft wrote...

WildOrchid wrote...

Taint Master wrote...


Male pandering?  It's pre-alpha footage! 

I wasn't talking about the video, but in general. There is male pandering. Too much pandering.
And people will discuss about it over and over and over until developers from all games get the damn message that we want variety.

 

Thats only going to happen when female players pay as much if not more than your male counterparts so good luck with that. Do we even have a clue what the ratio of Male to Female players among Dragon Age players is?

Though yes, the least that can be done is for the main website to mention that you do in fact that you can play as either sex. At least we have seen artwork with a female PC.

By that logic, women should be (solely) targeted for years, then they will "pay as much if not more" than the males. No. Doesn't work that way.  As soon as they saw they had a good amount of female players, they should have started marketing to them, too, instead of just males, this way they'd have an even better chance to increase their sales. 

But at least you can admit that there should be a mention of the option to play as female somewhere.

[harmoniousk]

Wow. I have to say, I'm a bit shocked by some of these posts. I understand the OP's original request - can you show us some more female Inquisitor? But that was already answered - at this time there is nothing much to show because they're still designing. How did this get turned into pandering to males? BioWare is NOT the company to be grousing to about pandering to males. They do more for female gamers than most so to get all persnickety about a few glimpses into the making of the game is a bit extreme. And if folks think that the website is over emphasizing males because the person holding the sword/helmet is male - that was already explained, too. That is not the Inquisitor - that is someone handing the Inquisitor (you) the equipment. Most of the concept art is of companions, demons, and landscapes that have someone thrown in there to provide a sense of scale.

And please don't get me started on pronouns - plain and simple, you use "he" when specifying a person of uncertain gender. Political correctness and grammatical correctness are not the same thing. If people are annoyed with that, they need to take it up with Webster - not BioWare.

And, yes, I'm a woman. And yes, I play many games, which is why I am so shocked that people are taking their aggression out on BioWare. If you want to make a point, make sure you're not alienating the ally while doing it - and BioWare is more pro-diversity than I've seen in a long, long time. (and, no, I do not work for BioWare.)

[Wulfram]

I'd kind of worry that if the female protagonist was made more prominent, they'd be made less cool and badass and more "sexed up".

Would be pleasant to be proved wrong, of course.

[Wissenschaft]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@d-boy 15, stop being silly, almost everyone, including myself, has been incredibly satisfied by what we've seen sofar.

Yes, it's easy to jump on the 'BSN complain about everything' bandwagon, but when the developers themselves agree that these are valid complaints, I have absolutely no idea why you feel that it is applicable here.

 

The developers regonize the problem but don't expect a vast sift in the marketing. At best, I'd hope for what mass effect 3 did by releaseing a trailer about female shepard.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

In fact, don't look it up, I've taken the liberty of doing it for you.

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/they

3. (used with an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine he or the definite feminine she): Whoever is of voting age, whether they are interested in politics or not, should vote.

[Wissenschaft]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

Wissenchaft, I got an A* in English Language GCSE and A level.

They is not for plural use only. Look it up.

While 'he' may also be gender neutral, it is also used FAR LESS often.

 

Not in America its not. Plus, tell that to my professors. Internet definitions are not going to convince them,

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 21 août 2013 - 02:15 .

[chuckwells62]

Clearly female Inquisitor options are on the table, based on the recently heavily marketed (and most welcome) return to race choices in DA:I, which revealed female human, elf, and dwarf selections (plus a slight possibility that another might end up in the mix). So, I have to imagine that the original poster taking offense to some degree by a lack of visibility to this effect in released presentations is the point of this post. For me that is a waste of brain cells, detracts from the big picture, and is picking a battle that is unnecessary. Would the original poster not purchase the game, if an advertising accommodation reflecting a female Inquisitor failed to manifest itself, and despite knowing that such was an option?

Modifié par chuckwells62, 21 août 2013 - 02:13 .

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Wissenschaft, I refer you to the post directly above yours.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I

[Wissenschaft]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

In fact, don't look it up, I've taken the liberty of doing it for you.

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/they

3. (used with an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine he or the definite feminine she): Whoever is of voting age, whether they are interested in politics or not, should vote.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ain't

I can find the definition of Ain't online too, doesn't mean my professors liked that word either.

[WildOrchid]

ArinTheirinCousland wrote...



By that logic, women should be (solely) targeted for years, then they will "pay as much if not more" than the males. No. Doesn't work that way.  As soon as they saw they had a good amount of female players, they should have started marketing to them, too, instead of just males, this way they'd have an even better chance to increase their sales. 

But at least you can admit that there should be a mention of the option to play as female somewhere.

This. Is simply the fact that game developers overall think that the majority of gamers are '20 year old white straight males' and they want to think this way even if it's been proven already that it's a myth.

Of course i'm not talking about the DA team.... the ME team though is another story.

[MarchWaltz]

Longest.Title.Ever.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

*I don't doubt that 'he' can ALSO be used, but they can definitely be used to mean a singular person of unknown gender as well.

Don't want to listen to an online dictionary? Fine.

The definition of 'they' in the Oxford Reference Dictionary is as follows:

1. The people, animals or things previously named or in question

2. People in general

3. Those in authority

4. As a third person singular indefinite pronoun meaning 'he or she',e.g. 'Anyone can come if they want to'.

Please, please, please don't try to argue with the Oxford Reference Dictionary on this.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

Obviously it's the Oxford English Reference Dictionary, if that wasn't obvious.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@MarchWaltz, it used to be just 3 words long but people were commenting without reading it and missed the point, so I had to re-iterate that this is about marketing.

[Lokiwithrope]

MarchWaltz wrote...

Longest.Title.Ever.

[Doveberry]

I'm rather happy that this thread exists. It raises an important issue that really should be discussed.
I reacted at the comment quoted in the topic title. First they say "the Inquisitor himself", and then go on to explain that you can play as a mage, warrior or rogue, and as a human, elf or a dwarf. The option of a female protagonist isn't even mentioned. It would have taken half a second.

[Magdalena11]

MiSS Provencale wrote...

Many people who play DA played a female protagonist since DAO female Hawke had some success.

I add that we have a lot of girls to be on the forum. This is one more reason to change that Bioware and listens to her female audience

I believe both Mr. Epley's and Mr. Schumacher's posts made it clear that the Bioware team is very receptive to the voice of their female audience.  I applaud the entire team for its response to the feedback on this thread.  Simply validating the point that the topic was valid and could have been handled differently is an indication of how much they value their female players.  I am satisfied since my concerns have been addressed and pleased that they have been in an intelligent and sensitive manner.