590 réponses à ce sujet

[Kroitz]

I too think we need more jiggle-puffs.

All for it.

[Neon Rising Winter]

pdusen wrote...

But don't you see how that's an unreasonable leap to make? By that standard, the only way to NOT leave anyone out is to make sure that every time you show anything inquisitor-related at all, you show equal portions of every race-ethnicity-gender combination that is possible. It's just not a realistic expectation.

That argument appears to be founded on we can't do everything so by implication let's not do anything. Previous evidence suggests with this type of nudging we can get both male and female protagonists shown. Not something I'd have expected to see even five years ago. So it's obviously becoming a realistic expectation, and makes this a sensible way to proceed.

[pdusen]

Narrow Margin wrote...

That argument appears to be founded on we can't do everything so by implication let's not do anything. Previous evidence suggests with this type of nudging we can get both male and female protagonists shown. Not something I'd have expected to see even five years ago. So it's obviously becoming a realistic expectation, and makes this a sensible way to proceed.

Yes, if your goal is to just get more representation spread around, that can (and should) be done. If your goal is equal representation for every type of character that can be played, it just won't happen in marketing. Something will always be left out or marginalized.

Modifié par pdusen, 21 août 2013 - 03:30 .

[Zombie_Alexis]

pdusen wrote...

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

Actually, I *don't* think it's an unreasonable leap to make. Everyone already knows -- gamers and non-gamers alike -- that you can play as a male. It's just a given. So why not talk about the Inquisitor from the get go as female? All the fans would be "in the know" but it would shake things up for people on the outside looking in that this game is different than your usual video game. I understand that the female constructs are not finished, but that doesn't mean you can't reference the Inquisitor as female. Or put that information *somewhere* on the website, at the very least.

Why is it only "reasonable" to showcase the main character as male, when everyone already knows one can play as male?

It isn't and I never said or implied it was.

I recommend you reread the post you were responding to.

I did read your post and yeah, you did kind of imply that the only way to showcase the Inquisitor without having to show every race/gender/orientation is to use a male protagonist. I'm saying that isn't true. It does not have to be male. A female dwarf, for instance, would convey so much more as to a choices that can be made than a human male. Simply referring to the Inquisitor as "she", when all of the art work is of a male Inquisitor,would also do this, though not as effectively. It's just tiresome that a male protagonist is always, always the standard.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

@Pdusen, I know it doesn't relate to what you said, I was referring to 'Taint Master''s comment.

[EmperorSahlertz]

ManchesterUnitedFan1 wrote...

@Rickets, absolutely. I have beem incredibly satisfied with everything done about DA:I until this point. So have most people.

@Sahlertz, I have lived in England for 22 years, andf the gender neautralterm that is actually used by the english people is 'They'. Not he, they.

'They' is plural. (Or for when refering to royalty I believe...) Since 'the inquisitor' is singular, you can't use 'they' in this instance, and thus have to settle for 'him' or 'her'. You could technically use 'it', but that depersonifies the character, to an unacceptable degree in this matter.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

I've already quoted from both Dictionay.com and the OED.

Both 'they' and 'he' is acceptable.

[ManchesterUnitedFan1]

The OED clearly states that 'they' can be used to mean singular.

[pdusen]

Zombie_Alexis wrote...

I did read your post and yeah, you did kind of imply that the only way to showcase the Inquisitor without having to show every race/gender/orientation is to use a male protagonist. I'm saying that isn't true. It does not have to be male. A female dwarf, for instance, would convey so much more as to a choices that can be made than a human male. Simply referring to the Inquisitor as "she", when all of the art work is of a male Inquisitor,would also do this, though not as effectively. It's just tiresome that a male protagonist is always, always the standard.

No, I didn't. I said that the only way to showcase the inquisitor FAIRLY is to show every race-gender-orientation-whatever combination. Every other way is going to be unfair. I also implied that such fair representation is not a realistic expectation.

The implication that a male protagonist should be used is one that was developed in your head and I'd rather you didn't attribute it to me.

[Neon Rising Winter]

pdusen wrote...


Yes, if your goal is to just get more representation spread around, that can (and should) be done. If your goal is equal representation for every type of character that can be played, it just won't happen in marketing. Something will always be left out or marginalized.

And indeed that is my goal, to see more representation. Given there's progress in that regard I'm inclined to continue contributing to these topics, and see what can be achieved. I like the phrase 'perfect is the enemy of good', let's not worry about perfect.

[Zombie_Alexis]

pdusen wrote...

No, I didn't. I said that the only way to showcase the inquisitor FAIRLY is to show every race-gender-orientation-whatever combination. Every other way is going to be unfair. I also implied that such fair representation is not a realistic expectation.

The implication that a male protagonist should be used is one that was developed in your head and I'd rather you didn't attribute it to me.

Fine. But my point is why does the default have to be male if you can't represent every option fairly? Why not at the very least have text on the official website that acknowledges choices of gender? That is not an urealistic expectation.

Modifié par Zombie_Alexis, 21 août 2013 - 03:47 .

[Navasha]

I didn't see any marketing materials showing the Inquisitor with bright red hair either! Will we be able to have bright red hair?

Marketing is NOT about a list of features available in the game. Marketing is designed to get the biggest punch in the shortest amount of time. While the percentage of women as the consumers of RPG games is growing, the fact is that it still isn't even close to 50/50. If 80% of your potential customers are male based on past sales and focus group testing shows that a male inquisitor picture will generate the highest amount of buzz with them, then you produce an ad with a male inquisitor.

It has nothing to do with sexism. If 10 such pictures are released over the coming year, I fully expect 8 out of the 10 to be male. Why people foolishly insist on an "equal" representation, when the actual dynamics of the consumer population isn't "equal" to begin with.

[Taleroth]

Marten Stroud wrote...

Why not use a genderless gray blob? And use "it" or "itself"?
No one would complain.

Although, the armor might not fit....

Humans take offense at being called "it," generally speaking.

[ghost_ronin]

Really? This soon? They have barely shown anything at all. The picture panel of several armor styles was the male panel, concept art has shown that there is probably a corresponding female one as well.

[David Gaider]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
'They' is plural. (Or for when refering to royalty I believe...) Since 'the inquisitor' is singular, you can't use 'they' in this instance, and thus have to settle for 'him' or 'her'. You could technically use 'it', but that depersonifies the character, to an unacceptable degree in this matter.

Yeah, I was brought up to believe "they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun was grammatically incorrect. I'm aware there are some sources which say that it can be used as such, but whenever I've done so it always feels wrong... so I certainly won't use that in conversation even if it sometimes gets used in writing.

Regardless, harping on that point as evidence of something seems a bit... anal.

And this thread has grown out of control, to the point where the title had to be expanded to ridiculous lengths as if to reassure anyone coming that this was actually about DAI's approach to marketing but not about the single dev diary video-- when it is, in fact, about the single dev diary video. And now it seems to be about everything.

So I'm going to shut it down. If someone wants to speak directly to the video, please post something about that. If someone wants to make suggestions regarding how DAI should be marketed in the future, please post something about that. If someone wants to talk about sexism as a general issue-- take it to Off Topic. Thanks.