[quote]Nohvarr wrote...
[quote]I'd cry were it not for the fact that
all of that was happening anyway, and the point of the war is to stop it.[/quote]
Then, considering what we know of DAI, it failed. All hell is literally breaking loose, Mages and Templars are focused more on killing one another than stopping a horde of demons, and innocent people across the land are being maimed, killed and worse in these terrible times. All because Anders couldn’t see a better solution than war.
[quote]Constant repetition of the "in chains" line intrigues me. You feel personally damaged by his action somehow, so you want to reassert your own power by taking control of him as a visceral thing, it seems.[/quote]
When someone decides to plunge the entire world into war because they themselves are not smart enough to figure out a better way to solve a problem I tend to take it kind of personal. Then there’s my dislike of people who kill innocents either to send a message or because they don’t care about collateral damage.
[quote]Meredith wanted to slaughter every mage in the Circle prior to what Anders did. [/quote]
“And I want a puppy, doesn’t mean I’m going to get one.”
-Elizabeth, Bioshock Infinite
[quote]How exactly is Anders to blame for “starting up a war” when it was already in progress to begin with? [/quote]
Well, the Divine and the Grand Cleric had both told Meredith “NO” and without their approval she’d need justification to enact her wish. Other Templars within her Command were taking steps to undermine her influence and her command. At the same times the nobles of Kirkwall we’re about ready to revolt against the Commander, and likely could’ve been talked into an alliance of coneniance since she was just as much a threat to them as she was to the Mages. Then Anders hands her the excuse she needs on a silver platter with a pretty pink bow wrapped around it. Not since Jar Jar Binks have I seen someone hand the obvious villain everything they need.
[quote]And here I thought your Quanri mage Inquisitor would learn a thing or two about the mistreatment of mages.[/quote]
Let’s see, as a Qunari Mage, my goal is to bring stability to the world in order to fight a greater threat. Anders played a significant role in plunging the world into Chaos. If he’s alive his Capture would deny the Templars a boogey man to use to continue their war, while denying the Mages a figure head to rally behind. Another step in getting both sides to stop their squabbling and focus on the real threat.
[quote]I don't quite endorse Anders' action, but I won't kill him for it.[/quote]
If you knew he was about to blow up the Chantry before hand, would you stop him?
[quote]I wouldn't call ok, but necessary. If someone doesn't take an stand, the Chantry will continue to opress people forever. The world sure as hell won't change simply by going down the streets shouting that the chantry is wrong.[/quote]
I’m sure that’s what the Templars tell their young initiats when they voice a concern about the treatment of mages.
[quote]Ridiculous. Elthina is Meredith's superior and could have called her off. [/quote]
[quote]If the Champion asks Elthina why she does nothing when she is in charge of the templars and the Circle, Elthina retorts that Hawke has "quite the estimation of [her] abilities."
[/quote]
[quote]And if that was somehow impossible, she could have alerted the Chantry superiors, especially Leliana, that Meredith had effectively launched a coup against the Chantry. She deliberately tried to make the Chantry
less interested in affairs in Kirkwall, making it seem as though everything was under control.[/quote]
Yes she was, because the Divine was considering calling for an Exalted March against Kirkwall. So, she choose to let Meredith and Orisino calm down and work things out rather than have the Divine order an army into Kirkwall to do it for them. And then Anders rolls in an sets fire to everything.
[quote]Grand Cleric Elthina was an arrogant old hag that thought that she was untouchable.
Anders showed her
[/quote]
Let’s take a look at her actions
[quote]After Sebastian was forced into the Chantry, Elthina helped him escape in the dead of night, telling him that people should enter the Chantry through the front door, not the back. She gave him a purse full of gold and told him to go and live his life. Thanks to her words, Sebastian returned to the Chantry - through the front door this time - with his faith restored.
….
Hawke can show Ser Alrik's letter to Elthina after investigating his "Tranquil solution". Elthina says that Ser Alrik made a suggestion, but they turned him down. She insists that the Rite of Tranquility is a last resort.
◾ Hawke can inform Elthina that a templar used her seal to make a member of the guard ignore the Qunari delegates being abducted. Elthina replies that she hoped this would not go so far and that she will step in when it's time.
…..
Hawke tells Elthina that Petrice is behind the murder. Elthina replies that Petrice has erred in her judgment and that a court will decide her fate. Then she turns away and walks up the stairs. Seconds later a Qunari assassin kills Petrice with an arrow. Elthina looks back only to tell Hawke to send for the Viscount.
….
By the beginning of the Act, Elthina has rejected Meredith's request for the Right of Annulment[5] and, according to Ser Karras, Meredith has sent for the permission of the Divine in Val Royeaux instead.
In Hightown, Orsino is trying to convince the nobles that Meredith uses the fear of mages to take control of Kirkwall. Meredith accuses him of inciting a rebellion. Then Elthina arrives and asks the templars to "show the First Enchanter back to the Circle," adding an injunction for them to treat him "gently," and Meredith to "go back to the Gallows and calm down, like a good girl." If the Champion asks Elthina why she does nothing when she is in charge of the templars and the Circle, Elthina retorts that Hawke has "quite the estimation of [her] abilities."
….
In the Chantry, Hawke witnesses Sebastian asking what is Elthina's stance on the issue of the mages and the templars. Elthina states that she favors peace and if the Maker is merciful, he will help them find it. She confesses that she did not expect things to deteriorate so fast. Then she tells him that the Divine sent an agent to Kirkwall to assess the danger of the Free Marches becoming another Imperium. Elthina is afraid that the Divine will treat the whole city as enemies, so she asks the Champion and Sebastian to meet the agent and to convince her that drastic measures won't be required. Elthina adds that the Divine has heard her protests already.
When Hawke returns only to pass the agent's message that Elthina must leave Kirkwall for Orlais because she will not be safe in the city, Elthina refuses to abandon her flock. She asserts that she is in no personal danger since nobody would dare attack the Grand Cleric. Later Elthina tells that she has been talking with both Orsino and Meredith and that Orsino "is not an unreasonable man;" she feels, therefore, that a compromise can be reached.
When Anders asks Hawke to help him gather ingredients for a "potion" and then to distract Elthina for him to get inside the Chantry unseen, Hawke can:
◾ Agree. Hawke comes to Elthina to discuss the mages and the templars. Elthina claims that she cannot take sides and that she is seeking to balance the needs of everyone. Then Anders shows up. Elthina comments that his soul is troubled and expresses her hope that he found a balm for it in the Chantry.[/quote]
She’s too passive, but that’s not a justification for murder.[/quote]
Oddly enough I think if you look at Elthina's actions more closely she's not passive in the least, but extremely manipulative.
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