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[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Think about all the people who would not be dead right now, mages,
templars, and innocent people caught in the cross fire, if vengance
hadn't essentially declared war on everyone who believes in the maker
with his stunt. Not just the templars, no. He declared war on the entire
religion, and showed that anyone who believes in it, is now considered a
potential threat. Than, he produly proclaims that he is glad he did
this, so that everyone will die, and all the mages can either kill all
the templars to die trying, and become martyrs for [b]his[b] cause.
Because let's be honest, all vengance ever cares about is itself.

Um... Anders believes in the Maker. So do, I suspect, most of the mages in the rebellion, which'd definitely be most if not all Libertarians. Evangeline and Leliana also wound up on the side of the revolution, among others. And they're not at war with the Chantry. So I'm not seeing this.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 octobre 2013 - 06:33 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

[Xilizhra]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

She'd find out how?

[Xilizhra]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

She'd find out how?

Just possibly the Seeker investigating the city.

Also, see my first post on this page for an edit.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 octobre 2013 - 06:37 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

She'd find out how?

Just possibly the Seeker investigating the city.

Also, see my first post on this page for an edit.

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

[Xilizhra]

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Elthina's specialty seems to be avoiding blame for anything; I suspect she may also have been backing Petrice while setting her up to be conveniently killed off in a way that would incite the populace against the qunari even more.

[d-boy15]

A lot of head canon from mage supporter here LOL

Go on, keep lying to yourself to make you feel better about Anders action. By standard
Anders still a terrorist because if he's a noble freedom fighter then so Bin Laden.

[Silfren]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

She'd find out how?

Just possibly the Seeker investigating the city.

Also, see my first post on this page for an edit.

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Why not a palpatine? As well ask the writers why they chose to make any character act the way they did.  Beyond that, it's easy enough why she wouldn't have had the seekers killed, if she's trying to, y'know, avoid having the Divine turn her full attention on Kirkwall.  I agree with the premise that Elthina was up to something that involved tacitly supporting Meredith while maintaining plausible deniability.

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Think about all the people who would not be dead right now, mages, templars, and innocent people caught in the cross fire, if vengance hadn't essentially declared war on everyone who believes in the maker with his stunt. Not just the templars, no. He declared war on the entire religion, and showed that anyone who believes in it, is now considered a potential threat. Than, he produly proclaims that he is glad he did this, so that everyone will die, and all the mages can either kill all the templars to die trying, and become martyrs for [b]his[b] cause. Because let's be honest, all vengance ever cares about is itself.

It's nice to take a vacation to a galaxy where nothing could possibly go wrong. What you describe could of not possibly happen even if Anders wasn't posssed by vengance. Mages and the Chantry will contuine to fight against each other for as long as the Chantry views them as prisoners.

The Resolutionists already delcared war against the Chantry. They wern't as cunning as Anders (The Mage Underground member, or possible leader) was when he blew up the Chantry. Like what Elthia said Mages came after her before, most likely members of the Resolutionist.

The Chantry burnt so many bridges, even from the non-mages. It was only matter of time before something drastic happen.

[Silfren]

Xilizhra wrote...

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Elthina's specialty seems to be avoiding blame for anything; I suspect she may also have been backing Petrice while setting her up to be conveniently killed off in a way that would incite the populace against the qunari even more.

Yep.  I think Elthina's manipulation of events can be traced back at least to the former viscount.  That poor shmuck who died on her watch?  Yeah, that ain't suspicious at all.

[MissOuJ]

Morocco Mole wrote...

But my friend, he already killed mages when he provoked Meredith to attack the Circle.

... Except that Meredith had sent for the Right of Annulment before Anders blew anything up.

Go have a chat with Ser Karras in the Gallows in Act 3. He outright tells you this. Any other insights into the Order he shares? Well... :

The robes are gonna get their lesson. Soon.

So all in all I'm pretty sure Anders could've been the nicest apostate to ever apostate and Meredith would have eventually found a good enough excuse to Annul the Circle. And it is pretty clear that Elthina, who was the only person who could've kept Meredith in check, did nothing.

The sad truth is that the only thing Anders changed is that this way he proved to the Circle mages that their innosence and "good behaviour" is irrelevant: they're gonna get killed anyway if the Tempars so wish, so they might as well fight back. So the only thing Anders provoked in the end was the mages' flight-or-fight instinct.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Darth Brotarian wrote...



So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Hey now! God tier Palpatine would never put his seal of approval on something like DA2.

This is more like pulling a Thanaton, maybe a Baras in its cleverer moments.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 10 octobre 2013 - 06:53 .

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...

So are we just making fanfiction and using that as proof now?

How is pointing out lore "making fanfictions"?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Elthina's specialty seems to be avoiding blame for anything; I suspect she may also have been backing Petrice while setting her up to be conveniently killed off in a way that would incite the populace against the qunari even more.

Can your provide any evidence of this? It seems unlikely the qunari would listen to her of all people, and it doesn't seem like she was very supportive of her so called conspirator during the events of the game. And funny how petrice seemed to not want hawke to talk, even though she was working with elthina, instead of being like "You think she didn't already know?" or after she gets cut loose wouldn't say something like "But I only did what you asked, you can't do this!"

Petrice doesn't seem the type to not gloat, or angerly spill the plan, following her emotions. I mean even using the star wars reference, when dooku was double crossed, he at least gave a "what the **** are you doing?" face. Petrice doesn't seem to do anything and seems generally surprised that Elthina knew anything about her plan.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 10 octobre 2013 - 06:56 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...



So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Hey now! God tier Palpatine would never put his seal of approval on something like DA2.

This is more like pulling a Thanaton, maybe a Baras in its cleverer moments.

Very good point, I stand corrected.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 10 octobre 2013 - 06:58 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Silfren wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

She'd find out how?

Just possibly the Seeker investigating the city.

Also, see my first post on this page for an edit.

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Why not a palpatine? As well ask the writers why they chose to make any character act the way they did.  Beyond that, it's easy enough why she wouldn't have had the seekers killed, if she's trying to, y'know, avoid having the Divine turn her full attention on Kirkwall.  I agree with the premise that Elthina was up to something that involved tacitly supporting Meredith while maintaining plausible deniability.

I question the reason for the premise to even exist, or the grounds on which the assertion stands, since there is no reason for a conspiracy to even exist outside of trying to juke the players.

It's the indoctrination nonsense all over again.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

So are we just making fanfiction and using that as proof now?

How is pointing out lore "making fanfictions"?

Where in the lore does it state Elthina supported meredith indirectly. I'd love you to link that section of the codex/wiki.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...



So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Hey now! God tier Palpatine would never put his seal of approval on something like DA2.

This is more like pulling a Thanaton, maybe a Baras in its cleverer moments.

Very good point, I stand corrected.

I'm hoping Inquisition at least manages some Marr level villainy.

Would be beautiful.

[Silfren]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

If so, Meredith would have overstepped her bounds and been removed by Elthina and there were already Seekers investigating Kirkwall

Yet another thing supporting my hypothesis that Elthina was secretly backing Meredith and approving of her actions.

Why the need for secrecy?

Because Justinia might take exception to Meredith's actions.

She'd find out how?

Just possibly the Seeker investigating the city.

Also, see my first post on this page for an edit.

So she has the seekers killed, or removed, or spun in circles on a wild goose chase. Why not that instead of pulling a palpatine?

Why not a palpatine? As well ask the writers why they chose to make any character act the way they did.  Beyond that, it's easy enough why she wouldn't have had the seekers killed, if she's trying to, y'know, avoid having the Divine turn her full attention on Kirkwall.  I agree with the premise that Elthina was up to something that involved tacitly supporting Meredith while maintaining plausible deniability.

I question the reason for the premise to even exist, or the grounds on which the assertion stands, since there is no reason for a conspiracy to even exist outside of trying to juke the players.

It's the indoctrination nonsense all over again.

It's just a matter of looking at all the lore pertaining to Elthina--codices that mention her, her dialogue, etc., and reading between the lines.  It's speculation, of course, but it is most assuredly NOT baseless.

[Silfren]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

So are we just making fanfiction and using that as proof now?

How is pointing out lore "making fanfictions"?

Where in the lore does it state Elthina supported meredith indirectly. I'd love you to link that section of the codex/wiki.

There's some confusion here because that Raijin thought your post was directed at his comments, not mine/Xil's.  I also wasn't sure which thread of discussion that post was directed at.

Modifié par Silfren, 10 octobre 2013 - 07:04 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...
Think about all the people who would not be dead right now, mages, templars, and innocent people caught in the cross fire, if vengance hadn't essentially declared war on everyone who believes in the maker with his stunt. Not just the templars, no. He declared war on the entire religion, and showed that anyone who believes in it, is now considered a potential threat. Than, he produly proclaims that he is glad he did this, so that everyone will die, and all the mages can either kill all the templars to die trying, and become martyrs for [b]his[b] cause. Because let's be honest, all vengance ever cares about is itself.

It's nice to take a vacation to a galaxy where nothing could possibly go wrong. What you describe could of not possibly happen even if Anders wasn't posssed by vengance. Mages and the Chantry will contuine to fight against each other for as long as the Chantry views them as prisoners.

The Resolutionists already delcared war against the Chantry. They wern't as cunning as Anders (The Mage Underground member, or possible leader) was when he blew up the Chantry. Like what Elthia said Mages came after her before, most likely members of the Resolutionist.

The Chantry burnt so many bridges, even from the non-mages. It was only matter of time before something drastic happen.

And it's still a horrible and unforgivable act when it happens, you don't just say it's okay because the guy you want to **** did it.

When terrible things are done to anyone that results in mass amounts of people dying, it's not a good act. Especially when it's done against non-military forces outside of war, with the justification being that war is a good thing to have. Had it been a extremist group of templars who blew up the chantry, it would be bad. A mage blowing up the chantry, that's also bad.

Why is it that you can't admit that? Why do you lack humanity?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 10 octobre 2013 - 07:04 .

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Where in the lore does it state Elthina supported meredith indirectly. I'd love you to link that section of the codex/wiki.

Her actions speaks clearly and besides...

http://dragonage.wik..._Cleric_Elthina

Some claim that Elthina's advanced age has rendered her ineffective, and that she allows Knight-Commander Meredith more leeway with each passing year. Some are calling on the new Divine, Justinia V, to appoint a replacement-but they do so quietly, for Elthina is by far the most beloved priest the city has ever known.