727 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

Well, considering I put a knife in him after he murdered a bunch of people in cold blood and forced a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars I hope he stays dead.

If I ever did create a save state where Anders is alive, my Qunari Mage Inquisitor would make it a point to hunt him down and drag him kicking and screaming before the divine to face judgment. Not because I believe in the Maker, but because Anders first victims were her people, thus she has right of first vengeance.

[Orian Tabris]

Nohvarr wrote...

Well, considering I put a knife in him after he murdered a bunch of people in cold blood and forced a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars I hope he stays dead.

If I ever did create a save state where Anders is alive, my Qunari Mage Inquisitor would make it a point to hunt him down and drag him kicking and screaming before the divine to face judgment. Not because I believe in the Maker, but because Anders first victims were her people, thus she has right of first vengeance.

This post makes me sad...

[dewayne31]

i like to think my hawke before leaving kirkwall burned his body. i think he'll mention that it

[Lord Raijin]

Nohvarr wrote...

Well, considering I put a knife in him after he murdered a bunch of people in cold blood and forced a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars I hope he stays dead.

If I ever did create a save state where Anders is alive, my Qunari Mage Inquisitor would make it a point to hunt him down and drag him kicking and screaming before the divine to face judgment. Not because I believe in the Maker, but because Anders first victims were her people, thus she has right of first vengeance.

Are you that ignorant or are you just an Anti Anders? Anders did everyone a favor by blowing up the Chantry in Kirkwall.  Elthina isn't this  sweet and Grandma like as you view her to be. The fact that she even admits that the Chantry has no problem killing the innocence to defend "The faith" The fact that this religious organization, at the time, had far to much power than they should have.

By the way Anders did not force a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars. It was Elthina that allowed all of this to happen, to let Meredith to keep harassing the mages. She allowed Meredith to essentially become the new Viscount; to rule the city. This goes against what the Templar order represents as they're not suppose to be involved in political affairs. Elthina had the power to stop Meredith, but she did not.

Anders gave the Grand Cleric the benefit of the doubt after you reveal the rejection plans to him to make all mages tranquil during the tranquility quest.

[wolfhowwl]

By the way Anders did not force a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

"I removed the chance of compromise because there is no compromise."

[Angrywolves]

My hawkes stabbed him, so he's dead.

[Lord Raijin]

wolfhowwl wrote...

By the way Anders did not force a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

"I removed the chance of compromise because there is no compromise."

With Elthina as the Grand Cleric there is no compromise, not while she maintains her Grand Cleric status that is. Not while she coddling her favorite Knight-Commander that she probably views as a daughter that she never had the chance to have.

[Former_Fiend]

Mr Cloud wrote...

plnero wrote...

If you ask Justice what he though would happen to him when he "dies" in Kristoffs body he won't know. I don't think Anders has anymore knowledge than a fade spirit in this subject, so even if Anders did in fact say that Justice would die as well I'm not sure I actually believe him.

I'm pretty sure I've heard somewhere that when host is killed, spirit goes back to the Fade.

That's the general theory for abominations, but what happened with Justice and Anders isn't exactly the same as what happens with abominations.

For abominations, the demon/spirit controls the body as a puppet by manipulating the mage's mind through the fade; technically the demon never leaves the fade, so they don't get "sent back", simply their connection to the mortal world is severed.

Justice, however, was forcibly sent from the fade into the mortal world where he physically possessed Kristoff's body and would later physically possess Anders. The consequences of this are difficult to determine.

Anyway, question at hand; honestly, while I generally kill Anders off, I think he should play a role in the games of those who let him live. 

[Boycott Bioware]

Why must Anders wait to blow up the Chantry? He can blow it up at any time and no one know who did it....

[Former_Fiend]

Qistina wrote...

Why must Anders wait to blow up the Chantry? He can blow it up at any time and no one know who did it....

Because that wasn't the point. It wasn't about destroying a building, it was about making a statement. 

[Boycott Bioware]

Former_Fiend wrote...
Because that wasn't the point. It wasn't about destroying a building, it was about making a statement.

I think, it is better if no one know who blow up the Chantry, everybody will accuse everybody, Mages will be oppressed even more because they are the usual suspect, this will rise tensions, Mages will gain more sympathy from the peoples, then Anders can use it to press on the Chantry, starting a revolution with the support from the peoples...

[Plaintiff]

Nohvarr wrote...

Well, considering I put a knife in him after he murdered a bunch of people in cold blood and forced a confrontation that ended in the deaths of mages and Templars I hope he stays dead.

If I ever did create a save state where Anders is alive, my Qunari Mage Inquisitor would make it a point to hunt him down and drag him kicking and screaming before the divine to face judgment. Not because I believe in the Maker, but because Anders first victims were her people, thus she has right of first vengeance.

Do the mages have right of vengeance against the unjust murders that occurred under the Divine's command?

[Former_Fiend]

Qistina wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...
Because that wasn't the point. It wasn't about destroying a building, it was about making a statement.

I think, it is better if no one know who blow up the Chantry, everybody will accuse everybody, Mages will be oppressed even more because they are the usual suspect, this will rise tensions, Mages will gain more sympathy from the peoples, then Anders can use it to press on the Chantry, starting a revolution with the support from the peoples...

He doesn't want that. He wants everyone to know he did it and he wants everyone to know exactly why he did it. 

If there were television stations in Thedas he'd have sent in a video tape with his confession and a political statement.

Modifié par Former_Fiend, 08 octobre 2013 - 04:35 .

[Steelcan]

this board is way too serious

[Lord Raijin]

Former_Fiend wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Why must Anders wait to blow up the Chantry? He can blow it up at any time and no one know who did it....

Because that wasn't the point. It wasn't about destroying a building, it was about making a statement. 

Exactly. It's like a mobster sending someone their decapitated horse head. With Anders situation the message is clear. The mages will not put up with the abuse of the Chantry for no longer.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think it was more about provoking Meredith into trying to murder the Circle and removing the person that might have stopped her. Any symbolic message Anders may have intended would have been secondary, if he intended any at all.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 octobre 2013 - 05:12 .

[movieguyabw]

To be honest, when I was playing through the ending for the first time, recently (shelved the game for quite a while after starting Act 3) I decided to let Anders live, because I wanted to see what sort of impact that would have in DAI.

Little did I know he shows up again later, and picks a fight with you. Sorry Anders, I gave you a chance. You should've ran while you had the chance.

[Lord Raijin]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I think it was more about provoking Meredith into trying to murder the Circle and removing the person that might have stopped her. Any symbolic message Anders may have intended would have been secondary, if he intended any at all.

Anders didn't need to do that as Meredith already sent in a request for ROA prior to the chantry explosion. Meredith was determined to murder all of the Circle mages.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

And Anders killed Elthina to "remove the chance of compromise." He wanted her to annul the Circle so the mags would all either die fighting or fight their way out. He believes both are preferable to Chantry controlled Circles. The explosion is also how Meredith justified the Right to herself and everyone around her after calling it.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 08 octobre 2013 - 05:28 .

[Lord Raijin]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

And Anders killed Elthina to "remove the chance of compromise." The explosion is also how Meredith justified the Right.

Perhabs it would be justified, but then again mages have every right to defend themselves against currupted templars like Meredith, Ser Alrik (Elthina and Cullen calls his death a tragic and murder) and Ser Karass. Elthina had no intentions to protect the mages against the templars that she commands. Someone has to be the voice for the mages and Anders did exactly that by blowing up the Chantry to send a message that mages will not bow down to the chantry, and to allow the templars to abuse them.

[Boycott Bioware]

Former_Fiend wrote...
He doesn't want that. He wants everyone to know he did it and he wants everyone to know exactly why he did it.

If there were television stations in Thedas he'd have sent in a video tape with his confession and a political statement.

Actually, not everyone know why he did it, The one who know are the one who is there, most of them are dead...Meredith dead, Orsino dead, those Templars and Mages dead...if everyone know why he did it, Cassandra won't interrogate Varric to find out what really happen

So, in short, what he did is wasted

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

And Anders killed Elthina to "remove the chance of compromise." The explosion is also how Meredith justified the Right.

Perhabs it would be justified, but then again mages have every right to defend themselves against currupted templars like Meredith, Ser Alrik (Elthina and Cullen calls his death a tragic and murder) and Ser Karass. Elthina had no intentions to protect the mages against the templars that she commands. Someone has to be the voice for the mages and Anders did exactly that by blowing up the Chantry to send a message that mages will not bow down to the chantry, and to allow the templars to abuse them.

But he wasn't trying to send a message. He was trying to start a war. He wanted the templars to kill the mags so they would fight back.

[The Qun & the Damned]

I wouldn't be surprised if Anders becomes Thedas's answer to John Wilkes Booth. Despite assassinating a powerful figure head and killing MANY people to prove a point, (if i remember correctly, the Kirkwall Chantry also housed orphans and many lay brothers and sisters, it's huge for a reason), no right-minded mage or group of mages would side with him or aid him. Much like John Wilkes Booth, the assassination of Lincoln earned him no refuge from the south despite their opposition to him, the mass murder of a religious figurehead and dozens more aren't exactly going to give him safe harbor from those like him either. But in the end, despite his horrendous act, all of Thedas now sees the injustice and abuses that go on between the mages and the templars, and still, for the life of them, have no idea who to support in this enormous schism.
Hmm... I might keep him alive in one of my playthroughs just to see where his story goes in inquisition.

Modifié par ScreechingViolence, 08 octobre 2013 - 06:21 .

[Lord Raijin]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

But he wasn't trying to send a message. He was trying to start a war. He wanted the templars to kill the mags so they would fight back.

The Templars vs Mages war was very much alive in Kirkwall, and throughout Thedas. Mages turning to blood magic out of desperation, and some templars were actually aiding the mages because they realize what the Order was doing to them was wrong.

"I will not stand by and watch you (Meredith) treat all mages like criminals, while those who would lead us (First Enchanter Orsino) bow to their templar jailors!" -Anders

So yeah He was sending a message "We will not be pushed around and be treated as criminal" kind of message.

[Nohvarr]

ScreechingViolence wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if Anders becomes Thedas's answer to John Wilkes Booth. Despite assassinating a powerful figure head and killing MANY people to prove a point, (if i remember correctly, the Kirkwall Chantry also housed orphans and many lay brothers and sisters, it's huge for a reason), no right-minded mage or group of mages would side with him or aid him. Much like John Wilkes Booth, the assassination of Lincoln earned him no refuge from the south despite their opposition to him, the mass murder of a religious figurehead and dozens more aren't exactly going to give him safe harbor from those like him either. But in the end, despite his horrendous act, all of Thedas now sees the injustice and abuses that go on between the mages and the templars, and still, for the life of them, have no idea who to support in this enormous schism.
Hmm... I might keep him alive in one of my playthroughs just to see where his story goes in inquisition.

And this is one of the reasons he get's hunted down in my DAI play through. You can complain about all the people the chantry has harmed, that does not give you the right to kill people who may or may not have played a part in those deaths. How many other people were in the Chantry at the time, perhaps serving the poor, giving advice to the confused, maybe just normal people  at Prayer or just as servants, earning money by cooking for the Chantry personnel or cleaning their floors. They're dead because Anders wanted to start a war. A war that would ruin lives, wreck families, destroy people all across the land. When Mother Petrice tried to start a war I opposed her at every turn and then did nothing to stop a Qunari from putting an arrow in her, so I see no reason to grant Anders more leniency than her.

Here's thought for all you people viewing my actions as monstrous or heartless. By giving him to the divine I am also giving him his best chance to live. If I handed him to the Templars or even the common man they'd likely kill him publicly as an example to others. The Divine is one of the few people who could grant him life in prison, or a life of serving others to make up for his murders, and have it be accepted by a majority of people. If memory recalls, the Divine is actually sympathetic to mages. In 'Asunder' she green lite a project designed to find a better way to deal with mages than tranquility...and it worked...kind of. In the book 'Asunder' the Project she backed discovered a way to undo Tranquility and it was suggested it might be possible (with further research) to perfect the technique, allowing you to take away a mages power but still allow them to live otherwise normal lives. Which was likely the final straw for the Templar Commander who threw a hissy fit when he learned about it.

My Inquisitor, (Qunari Mage, Human Warrior or Elf Rogue etc) will bring Anders before the Divine in chains. Since he blew up her people, (People who worked for her and just those who happened to believe and were in the Chantry at the time) she decides his fate, but at that point he's no longer my problem. I've done my job, arranged a meeting between the two and allowed her to pass sentence upon him. If she let's him live, fine, if she put's him down, that's just as good to me.

edit:

So yeah He was sending a message "We will not be pushed around and be treated as criminal" kind of message.

And "we'll kill innocent people to send that message."

Modifié par Nohvarr, 08 octobre 2013 - 10:11 .