727 réponses à ce sujet

[CrabbyCrackers]

Did Anders himself really do anything, I thought Justice/vengeance was the driving force behind it. People want anders dead for what he did but justice back. Anders anger turned Justice to vengeance' but who wouldn't of been angry at the situation. I would never trust a spirit that could so easily be turned into a demon like being. Vengeance blew up the chantry anders was the vehicle.

[Nohvarr]

Actually Anders was planning to die, you can see that all throughout the final chapter, and his comments imply that Vengeance will be returned to Justice once he's dead. So no, Anders was the driving will behind that, not the spirit. He made his choice, and now he should suffer the consequences of those actions.

[Xilizhra]

And this is one of the reasons he get's hunted down in my DAI play through. You can complain about all the people the chantry has harmed, that does not give you the right to kill people who may or may not have played a part in those deaths. How many other people were in the Chantry at the time, perhaps serving the poor, giving advice to the confused, maybe just normal people at Prayer or just as servants, earning money by cooking for the Chantry personnel or cleaning their floors.

None. It was night. The only people in there were templars. Look at the cutscene.

They're dead because Anders wanted to start a war. A war that would ruin lives, wreck families, destroy people all across the land. When Mother Petrice tried to start a war I opposed her at every turn and then did nothing to stop a Qunari from putting an arrow in her, so I see no reason to grant Anders more leniency than her.

I'd cry were it not for the fact that all of that was happening anyway, and the point of the war is to stop it.

Here's thought for all you people viewing my actions as monstrous or heartless.

They're neither, just kind of shortsighted a la Sebastian. Also egotistical, but I'll get to that in a bit.

By giving him to the divine I am also giving him his best chance to live. If I handed him to the Templars or even the common man they'd likely kill him publicly as an example to others. The Divine is one of the few people who could grant him life in prison, or a life of serving others to make up for his murders, and have it be accepted by a majority of people. If memory recalls, the Divine is actually sympathetic to mages. In 'Asunder' she green lite a project designed to find a better way to deal with mages than tranquility...and it worked...kind of. In the book 'Asunder' the Project she backed discovered a way to undo Tranquility and it was suggested it might be possible (with further research) to perfect the technique, allowing you to take away a mages power but still allow them to live otherwise normal lives. Which was likely the final straw for the Templar Commander who threw a hissy fit when he learned about it.

True, but Anders can already serve others in this war, yes? It might be best to sort this out afterward.

My Inquisitor, (Qunari Mage, Human Warrior or Elf Rogue etc) will bring Anders before the Divine in chains. Since he blew up her people, (People who worked for her and just those who happened to believe and were in the Chantry at the time) she decides his fate, but at that point he's no longer my problem. I've done my job, arranged a meeting between the two and allowed her to pass sentence upon him. If she let's him live, fine, if she put's him down, that's just as good to me.

Constant repetition of the "in chains" line intrigues me. You feel personally damaged by his action somehow, so you want to reassert your own power by taking control of him as a visceral thing, it seems.

Actually Anders was planning to die, you can see that all throughout the final chapter, and his comments imply that Vengeance will be returned to Justice once he's dead. So no, Anders was the driving will behind that, not the spirit. He made his choice, and now he should suffer the consequences of those actions.

We need his help to ensure that others can suffer the consequences of theirs first.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You people do know that even if the chantry really was just "filled with templars" (as stupid as that is since the building is one of the most important in Kirkwall) that the collateral damage from such an explosion (not to mention the fighting in the streets) would result in a rather large death toll of civilians?

The blast wave and the debris actually got flung high into the air and well beyond the city walls. And there appear to be no corpses in the streets, when there were plenty in Demands of the Qun.

[Br3admax]

/Chantry is full of people that are not Templars any other time we go there.

"No civilians were killed."

Also, the city catches on fire. All the debris did not go over the city walls. In fact, I don't think even most of it did.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

/Chantry is full of people that are not Templars any other time we go there.

"No civilians were killed."

Also, the city catches on fire. All the debris did not go over the city walls. In fact, I don't think even most of it did.

Only full of people that are not templars when we go in during the day. Sneaking in at night, no one's around at all (aside from templars one time and raiders another). And some fires start, yes, but I don't recall Chantry debris landing in the city.

[Br3admax]

First, I've been to church at night. It happens.

Second, the fire didn't start itself.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

First, I've been to church at night. It happens.

Second, the fire didn't start itself.

If you want to add imaginary people we didn't see in the cutscene and didn't see in precedent, in addition to attaching the customs of your own modern religion to the not-Christian fantasy one that we see in-game, feel free. As for the fires, it might have been the blast wave, it might have been the demons.

[Wulfram]

If the Grand Cleric was there, then logically a bunch of other people were there. Servants and whatnot, if not the rest the sisters. This was a really big building.

I mean, the game doesn't show any kids in the Tower, but we can infer their presence and thus their death in the annulment.

edit:  The fires start up immediately, they're definitely directly caused by the explosion.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 octobre 2013 - 12:34 .

[Br3admax]

I highly doubt that demons set fires. Really, you can see them just as soon as the Chantry finishes exploding.

Two, wut? Of course there are more people that what we see in game. Cities have large populations, and I highly doubt that it is limited to forty five or so people per area of the city. Second, going to any type of sermon at night has nothing to do with Christianity nor is it limited to it. Your assuming that I also went to church due to my religion is also false.

[Br3admax]

Wulfram wrote...

If the Grand Cleric was there, then logically a bunch of other people were there. Servants and whatnot, if not the rest the sisters. This was a really big building.

I mean, the game doesn't show any kids in the Tower, but we can infer their presence and thus their death in the annulment.

Mhm. Exactly. 

[Xilizhra]

I mean, the game doesn't show any kids in the Tower, but we can infer their presence and thus their death in the annulment.

The game doesn't show us the tower at all, only the courtyard, the templar offices, and some kind of antechamber.

If the Grand Cleric was there, then logically a bunch of other people were there. Servants and whatnot, if not the rest the sisters. This was a really big building.

Possibly.

edit: The fires start up immediately, they're definitely directly caused by the explosion.

Since none of the debris seemed to land, probably it was some side effect from the blast wave.

Two, wut? Of course there are more people that what we see in game. Cities have large populations, and I highly doubt that it is limited to forty five or so people per area of the city. Second, going to any type of sermon at night has nothing to do with Christianity nor is it limited to it. Your assuming that I also went to church due to my religion is also false.

Why would I care about your religion?

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

I mean, the game doesn't show any kids in the Tower, but we can infer their presence and thus their death in the annulment.

The game doesn't show us the tower at all, only the courtyard, the templar offices, and some kind of antechamber.

If the Grand Cleric was there, then logically a bunch of other people were there. Servants and whatnot, if not the rest the sisters. This was a really big building.

Possibly.

edit: The fires start up immediately, they're definitely directly caused by the explosion.

Since none of the debris seemed to land, probably it was some side effect from the blast wave.

No.

Two, wut? Of course there are more people that what we see in game. Cities have large populations, and I highly doubt that it is limited to forty five or so people per area of the city. Second, going to any type of sermon at night has nothing to do with Christianity nor is it limited to it. Your assuming that I also went to church due to my religion is also false.

Why would I care about your religion?

Don't make comments about the religion that you assume that I have. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 08 octobre 2013 - 12:39 .

[Reaverwind]

Wulfram wrote...

If the Grand Cleric was there, then logically a bunch of other people were there. Servants and whatnot, if not the rest the sisters. This was a really big building.

I mean, the game doesn't show any kids in the Tower, but we can infer their presence and thus their death in the annulment.

edit:  The fires start up immediately, they're definitely directly caused by the explosion.

Also, the cutscene depicting the explosion shows debris being flung away over the city at a rather high rate of speed - so the damage and casualties had to be widespread, and not limited to the Chantry.

[Xilizhra]

No.

No to which?

Don't make comments about the religion that you assume that I have.

Very well. I apologize for having impugned your honor by assuming that you went to church due to being Christian.

[Br3admax]

Snide comment aside, the no has a video link in it. Go check again.

[Xilizhra]

Br3ad wrote...

Snide comment aside, the no has a video link in it. Go check again.

Yes, and? All the debris is flung far off camera, as I said, aside from a few bits that just fall off before the explosion proper.

[Jaison1986]

I think it's hypocrital to say Anders is an murder when the Chantry itself does the same thing. Go to the wiki page and you will see how the Chantry cowardly orders the templars to kill all the Rivain mages in the Circle of Magi simply because they took a few liberties such as allowing mages to leave the tower to visit family members, or for communing with spirits. And yet I don't see anyone criticizing the chantry for such an horrible act. It really torns me up inside how the Chantry gets an free pass for so many unhuman acts simply because they are an religious organization, while Anders is called terrorist and an murder for making an stand.

[CrabbyCrackers]

The chantry wasn't an innocent bystander in this mess. They allowed things to take place when they could of put an end to it given their power in the hearts and minds of the people. The chantry was behind the killing of elves and spreading rumors about them so they would be hated. Sent templars to drive the elfs from their homes because they wouldn't convert. The mages would never be treated fairly. The chantry reminds me of cult , my way or burn. In war innocent people die. that's just a fact.
but i do think anders if living should have some role in DAI

[Br3admax]

Xilizhra wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Snide comment aside, the no has a video link in it. Go check again.

Yes, and? All the debris is flung far off camera, as I said, aside from a few bits that just fall off before the explosion proper.

A "few bits," most of which are a large as a person. With statues falling down everywhere? There's also no evidence that most of that debris went over the walls. It just blasts off at high speeds. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 08 octobre 2013 - 12:52 .

[Br3admax]

Jaison1986 wrote...

I think it's hypocrital to say Anders is an murder when the Chantry itself does the same thing. Go to the wiki page and you will see how the Chantry cowardly orders the templars to kill all the Rivain mages in the Circle of Magi simply because they took a few liberties such as allowing mages to leave the tower to visit family members, or for communing with spirits. And yet I don't see anyone criticizing the chantry for such an horrible act. It really torns me up inside how the Chantry gets an free pass for so many unhuman acts simply because they are an religious organization, while Anders is called terrorist and an murder for making an stand.

So because someone else is bad, it's okay to bad as well? Right. 

[Xilizhra]

A "few bits," most of which are a large as a person. With statues falling down everywhere? There's also no evidence that most of that debris went over the walls. It just blasts off at high speeds.

Not from what I can tell, but since we're clearly seeing different things from the same cutscene, this probably won't get anywhere.

So because someone else is bad, it's okay to bad as well? Right.

I don't quite endorse Anders' action, but I won't kill him for it.