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[Wulfram]

Xilizhra wrote...

The game doesn't show us the tower at all, only the courtyard, the templar offices, and some kind of antechamber.

We don't see very much of the Chantry either.  Just the public "front end".  Counting windows it's a five story building.

We know from Leliana that people do live in Chantrys.  Perhaps a big city "cathedral" is different from the Lothering chantry, but where else would the sisters and brothers stay?

[Jaison1986]

greengoron89 wrote...

So in other words, killing innocent people is okay as long as it's in response to someone else killing innocent people.

Which means that the Templars are righ to kill mages because mages have killed innocent people, which means...

...wait, what?

I wouldn't call ok, but necessary. If someone doesn't take an stand, the Chantry will continue to opress people forever. The world sure as hell won't change simply by going down the streets shouting that the chantry is wrong.

[khariuade]

well bioware did make most of us hate anders, sucks he was great in awakening.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...
 while Anders is called terrorist and an murder for making an stand.

Because he is. Not only did Anders murder innocent people when he destroyed the chantry, he also purposely, and knowingly, threw every mage to the wolves because he knew that Meredith would snap and enact the rite of annulment.

Every man, woman, and child who was a victim of that annulment is on Ander's just as much as it is on the templars.

That's absurd. It was Meredith's choice to declare it, the choice of the templars to follow it, and she was planning on doing it anyway.

[Reaverwind]

khariuade wrote...

well bioware did make most of us hate anders, sucks he was great in awakening.

I didn't like him, or Justice, in Awakening, either. In fact, I think the expansion did a decent job of foreshadowing the bad news Anders / Justice would become.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 08 octobre 2013 - 01:37 .

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
That's absurd. It was Meredith's choice to declare it, the choice of the templars to follow it, and she was planning on doing it anyway.

And Anders knew from the start that when he destroyed the chantry, it would lead to an annulment. He is reponsible for those deaths just as much as Meredith is.

The Annulment was going to come sooner or later, he just made it happen at a time of his choosing. It's better than it would have been had the templars been the one to time it.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The Annulment was going to come sooner or later, he just made it happen at a time of his choosing. It's better than it would have been had the templars been the one to time it.

Again.

He caused an annulment that led to the deaths of men, women, and children.

He didn't cause it, he triggered an inevitable event that would have been worse had he not done so.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

And by triggering it he helped murder innocent men, women, and children. Both mundane and magical. if he truly wanted to stop Meredith, why not simply blow her up?

Not only is it logistically impossible given the vastly heightened security of the Gallows, it would probably cause the whole fortress to collapse and kill all of the mages.

[Jaison1986]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The Annulment was going to come sooner or later, he just made it happen at a time of his choosing. It's better than it would have been had the templars been the one to time it.

Again.

He caused an annulment that led to the deaths of men, women, and children.

So? That was already happening before Anders did anything. How many mages that didn't do anything wrong got killed or made Tranquil simply because they didn't bowed to every whim of the Templars?

[Lord Raijin]

Nohvarr wrote...
And this
is one of the reasons he get's hunted down in my DAI play through.
You can complain about all the people the chantry has harmed, that
does not give you the right to kill people who may or may not have
played a part in those deaths. How many other people were in the
Chantry at the time, perhaps serving the poor, giving advice to the
confused, maybe just normal people  at Prayer or just as
servants, earning money by cooking for the Chantry personnel or
cleaning their floors. They're dead because Anders wanted to start a
war. A war that would ruin lives, wreck families, destroy people all
across the land. When Mother Petrice tried to start a war I opposed
her at every turn and then did nothing to stop a Qunari from putting
an arrow in her, so I see no reason to grant Anders more leniency
than her.

<facepalms> Meredith wanted to
slaughter every mage in the Circle prior to what Anders did. How
exactly is Anders to blame for “starting up a war” when it was
already in progress to begin with? Do mages count as innocent people
in your mind or are you do you share Cullens views against mages? Either way their was already war against the templars and the mages when you first entered Kirkwall, and it got progressively worst as time goes by.

My Inquisitor, (Qunari Mage,
Human Warrior or Elf Rogue etc) will bring Anders before the Divine
in chains. Since he blew up her people, (People who worked for her
and just those who happened to believe and were in the Chantry at the
time) she decides his fate, but at that point he's no longer my
problem. I've done my job, arranged a meeting between the two and
allowed her to pass sentence upon him. If she let's him live, fine,
if she put's him down, that's just as good to me.

And here I thought your Quanri mage Inquisitor would learn a thing or two about the mistreatment of mages.


Isn't it a bit ironic?

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
The Annulment was going to come sooner or later, he just made it happen at a time of his choosing. It's better than it would have been had the templars been the one to time it.

Again.

He caused an annulment that led to the deaths of men, women, and children.

You're 100% wrong.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

So? That was already happening before Anders did anything. How many mages that didn't do anything wrong got killed or made Tranquil simply because they didn't bowed to every whim of the Templars?

And how many more innocent mages will die across Thedas because of Anders blowing up a chantry? Not only did he cause an annulment that led to many to innocent deaths, he has also probably destroyed any sympathy the mages will have gotten from the majority of the populace.

I think that canonically didn't happen. His name hasn't spread much beyond mage communities.

[Xilizhra]

I don't see how anyone of sound mind and judgment could possibly think Anders's actions were justified or will help the cause of mages in any way. All it does is make mages look like murderous seditionists, strengthening the Chantry's position that mages are a danger that must be contained, and outright culled when need be.

Don't worry, the Red Templars more than make up for it.

Just because they don't know his name doesn't mean that the world at large doesn't know that an apostate murdered a Grand Cleric by blowing up a chantry.

Do they? I'm not sure. I think they might know that an Annulment happened there, but might not know the details. Varric implied that the story mutated and few people know the real one.

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Jaison1986 wrote...

So? That was already happening before Anders did anything. How many mages that didn't do anything wrong got killed or made Tranquil simply because they didn't bowed to every whim of the Templars?

And how many more innocent mages will die across Thedas because of Anders blowing up a chantry? Not only did he cause an annulment that led to many to innocent deaths, he has also probably destroyed any sympathy the mages will have gotten from the majority of the populace.

So Anders get blamed for every single thing that happen? Of course. Anders is to blame for templars raping mages late at night in their chambers. I'm sure some of these mages were children too. If I'm not mistaken Alan was a minor, since Ser Kaaras called him boy. Anders is at fault for what Meredith did, and not one oune of blame goes to Elthina for even attempting to stop Meredith and her tyrant behavior that caused Anders to fight for his people.

Codex entry: Anders - After the Deep Roads
After his friend Karl was made Tranquil, then killed, Anders was convinced that the Chantry's entire structure must be overturned to free mages completely from their control. He has joined a group of like-minded apostates who are slowly wearing away Kirkwall's Circle by helping other mages escape.

I totally agree with you Ander haters. Anders should die right then any there. How dare he take the first step, and try to free his people from Chantries control, especially after being forced to kill not only his friend, but former lover in an act of mercy after illegally made Tranquil. That son of a gun should be hanged!

In the mean time Anders provides FREE health care for the citizens of Kirkwall. Even Seneschal Bran took an advantage of his services.

Anders is a VERY bad man. The Chantry is good. After all they're out begging people for donations.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 08 octobre 2013 - 02:27 .