139 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

andar91 wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

......what are you guys talking about exactly?

I don't like exploration.  Exploration is apparently going to be at the heart of the game.  I think this is bad.

No, they've said no such thing. If anything Laidlaw says the exact opposite at the end of the video when he talks about how the heart of DA will always be centered around the story in the form of tough moral decisions and party based dynamics. Sheesh. 

Yeah, I kinda feel this way too, Wulfram.

I have a feeling a lot of the exploration will be optional; you don't HAVE to wander, and hopefully we won't need to grind.

When has there been a bw game where you grind? BW game are most anti-grind games ever.

[wright1978]

Sounds very good. If true they haven't fallen into the 'open world' trap and sacrificed the story but instead having opened up the spaces a bit through which the story gets told.

Plus having a horse is cool. Wonder can I my inquisitor pick out a black horse.

Modifié par wright1978, 21 août 2013 - 08:26 .

[TheBlackAdder13]

Wulfram wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

TLDR: Basically those descriptions could also apply to DA:O (and even DA 2 to an extent) if you replace Thedas with Fereldan or Kirkwall respectively. 

Which is a pretty clear evidence that your interpretation is ridiculous.  Laidlaw was not boasting that his game shared a characteristic with basically every game ever.

No, he was boasting that it shared a characteristic with Baldur's Gate in that it emphasized optional exploration. Did he explicitly use the term optional? No but it's the resonable deduction given the fact that he directly comparged it to BG and also makes a point to emphasize how DA will never move in an open world, Skyrim direction because it needs to be focused on the plot, choices, and characters. 

Exploration is a feature shared by "basically every game ever." Optional exploration, which is what Laidlaw was obviously referring to, is only a feature of some games and has not yet been a feature of the DA series. 

And my interpertation, which takes the entirety of what Laidlaw said into account, is ridiculious while your interpertation, which relies on two out of context quotes while disregarding what he says about the importance of story, choices, and characters, is correct? Right. Whatever. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 21 août 2013 - 08:26 .

[leaguer of one]

wright1978 wrote...

Sounds very good. If true they haven't fallen into the 'open world' trap and sacrificed the story but instead having opened up the spaces a bit through which the story gets told.

It sounds like what they did with BG and BG2.

[Wulfram]

Beerfish wrote...

What sheer and utter nonsense.  I think you are making some silly asusmption that they are going to make this like skyrim.  As for roleplaying, it ADDS to roleplaying.  In BG1 you could stick tightly to a series of events and do very little option l exploration but then you missed out on some very good mini quests with a lot of roleplaying.

Let me guess, you will play the game, stick to being lead around by the nose for the main quest.  Say you hate exploring and then will bleat about all the content you missed out on.  You sir are a lazy hero.

Abandoning all reason or sense to go root around under random rocks and comb arbitrary bits of forest because the developers wouldn't have included it if it didn't have quests is not roleplaying.

Look at the bit in the video where it's said that players wanting to follow the road - the thing that, y'know, takes them from an actual place to another actual place - is a bad thing because this design relies on the players finding random wood worthy of in depth investigation.

I'd rather have a "lazy" hero than one who'd still be looking in rabbit holes in the Shire while Sauron is conquering Rivendell.

[andar91]

leaguer of one wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

TLDR: Basically those descriptions could also apply to DA:O (and even DA 2 to an extent) if you replace Thedas with Fereldan or Kirkwall respectively. 

Which is a pretty clear evidence that your interpretation is ridiculous.  Laidlaw was not boasting that his game shared a characteristic with basically every game ever.

But a key foundation to rpg's is exploration. How is that bad?

I feel like everybody's jumping on Wulfram's back a bit, and I wanna say that exploration--BAD exploration--can be really bad (hehe--duh). Wandering through empty maps for ages doing nothing is annoying, particularly if you have no way of knowing where you are going or why you are going there. It eats up time and doesn't get much done.

But, as I said, if done well, exploration can be great. If somebody doesn't care for exploring in games, then hopefully the game will allow them to avoid the majority of it. I'm somebody who cannot STAND wide-open games like Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, and Dragon's Dogma because I have no objective, and I get so bored I inevitably quit and trade teh game in. Doesn't mean it's a bad game, but some people prefer a more guided experience.

I thought Origins did a really good job with this; you had large areas you could go to for a purpose, but you could also go off a bit and explore some areas that were extra. Granted, it was on a much smaller scale. Still, think of places like the Brecilian Forest--there was a main path, but there was some other stuff going on like that made hermit, Aneirin, and those undead vacation spots that I kept dying at.

[macrocarl]

I know it's pre-Alpha and it looks super gorgeous and I know that what I'm about to say will sound nit picky and internet complainy but the broadsword clipping into the horse is no gusta. Might that be looked into moving forward? I know it's picky but it's a thing I can't look away from.

[leaguer of one]

andar91 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

TheBlackAdder13 wrote...

TLDR: Basically those descriptions could also apply to DA:O (and even DA 2 to an extent) if you replace Thedas with Fereldan or Kirkwall respectively. 

Which is a pretty clear evidence that your interpretation is ridiculous.  Laidlaw was not boasting that his game shared a characteristic with basically every game ever.

But a key foundation to rpg's is exploration. How is that bad?

I feel like everybody's jumping on Wulfram's back a bit, and I wanna say that exploration--BAD exploration--can be really bad (hehe--duh). Wandering through empty maps for ages doing nothing is annoying, particularly if you have no way of knowing where you are going or why you are going there. It eats up time and doesn't get much done.

But, as I said, if done well, exploration can be great. If somebody doesn't care for exploring in games, then hopefully the game will allow them to avoid the majority of it. I'm somebody who cannot STAND wide-open games like Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur, and Dragon's Dogma because I have no objective, and I get so bored I inevitably quit and trade teh game in. Doesn't mean it's a bad game, but some people prefer a more guided experience.

I thought Origins did a really good job with this; you had large areas you could go to for a purpose, but you could also go off a bit and explore some areas that were extra. Granted, it was on a much smaller scale. Still, think of places like the Brecilian Forest--there was a main path, but there was some other stuff going on like that made hermit, Aneirin, and those undead vacation spots that I kept dying at.

but nothing in that video even points to that. In fact based on the video it sounds just like bg with it's exploation.  I'm not saying rpgs have to have exploration but  Wulfram just seem to jump to conlusion and thinks the worst of it with no real reason why. From the some of it they are restrictive to  point with it. It no a giant mass of exploration.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 21 août 2013 - 08:34 .

[leaguer of one]

macrocarl wrote...

I know it's pre-Alpha and it looks super gorgeous and I know that what I'm about to say will sound nit picky and internet complainy but the broadsword clipping into the horse is no gusta. Might that be looked into moving forward? I know it's picky but it's a thing I can't look away from.

That horse is undead.

[andar91]

Oh, I agree with your interpretation of the video. I don't think it will be bad like I described. The GI article mentions finding a pile of bones, for example, and investigating what they are.

I'm sure Wulfram will form his (or her, sorry if wrong pronoun) own opinion as more information comes out.

[leaguer of one]

Wulfram wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

What sheer and utter nonsense.  I think you are making some silly asusmption that they are going to make this like skyrim.  As for roleplaying, it ADDS to roleplaying.  In BG1 you could stick tightly to a series of events and do very little option l exploration but then you missed out on some very good mini quests with a lot of roleplaying.

Let me guess, you will play the game, stick to being lead around by the nose for the main quest.  Say you hate exploring and then will bleat about all the content you missed out on.  You sir are a lazy hero.

Abandoning all reason or sense to go root around under random rocks and comb arbitrary bits of forest because the developers wouldn't have included it if it didn't have quests is not roleplaying.

Look at the bit in the video where it's said that players wanting to follow the road - the thing that, y'know, takes them from an actual place to another actual place - is a bad thing because this design relies on the players finding random wood worthy of in depth investigation.

I'd rather have a "lazy" hero than one who'd still be looking in rabbit holes in the Shire while Sauron is conquering Rivendell.

I think you confusing this game with a grind box. Really nothing in this video makes this game like a collect a thon.

[TsaiMeLemoni]

I love exploration, so this is good news to me (sorry you don't like it Wulfram, I understand how personally unlikeable mechanics can sour what would be an otherwise enjoyable experience).

Liking the menu interface also. My hype meter is full!

[Taleroth]

macrocarl wrote...

I know it's pre-Alpha and it looks super gorgeous and I know that what I'm about to say will sound nit picky and internet complainy but the broadsword clipping into the horse is no gusta. Might that be looked into moving forward? I know it's picky but it's a thing I can't look away from.

Do you know the last time I saw a game that fixed that kind of clipping error?

I don't.

[Zanallen]

I don't particularly enjoy exploration either. My character is on a mission. He shouldn't be wasting his time wandering around a desert. However, it doesn't seem like we will have to explore all over the place. That map they showed seems to suggest that we can just head directly to our destination and avoid wandering about the whole of the region. Everything off the beaten path is optional exploration.

[Wulfram]

Look, unless you think the people who like exploration and are therefore cheering are totally kidding themselves and will be terribly disappointed, then can you please just accept that I don't like exploration and thus am not happy about it being expanded.

[Argahawk]

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I love exploration, so this is good news to me (sorry you don't like it Wulfram, I understand how personally unlikeable mechanics can sour what would be an otherwise enjoyable experience).

Liking the menu interface also. My hype meter is full!

Same here, can't wait to explore every map... and find more treasure maps

[Allan Schumacher]

Vilegrim wrote...

sounds interesting, depends who much of the BG name dropping being done is serious (and with the combat video being the way it is, they seem to have missed what to me was the point of those games so...)

He is specifically referring to the exploration aspects of Baldur's Gate, which is probably the fairest comparison.  It's not one large open map, like a Bethesda game or The Witcher 3, but there is an increased focus on creating areas within the maps that exist solely to be fun to explore and not be mandated by a need to progress along the critical path.  Which, looking at BioWare's history, probably hasn't really been done since Baldur's Gate (even BG2 had it significantly reduced).

[TheBlackAdder13]

Wulfram wrote...

Look, unless you think the people who like exploration and are therefore cheering are totally kidding themselves and will be terribly disappointed, then can you please just accept that I don't like exploration and thus am not happy about it being expanded.

I accept the fact you don't like it and if my character has pressing, immediate, time-sensitive concerns then I don't much care for it either but you're criticizing optional, BG-style exploration. If you don't want to participate you don't have to. It just seems like you're trying to ****** in people's cereal because you don't like other people having access to a mechanic that you can choose to opt out of. 

It's like someone getting upset if the devs decided to include a toggle mechanic where you can see the exact line of what your character will say before picking a dialogue option, even though you wouldn't have to use it if you didn't want to. 

Modifié par TheBlackAdder13, 21 août 2013 - 08:43 .

[Mecha Elf]

I like the exploration alot. I don't think bioware is going to sacrifice the story for exploration, if they did they would've made it completely open world but they didn't. That tells me that they're Number 1 priority is story and always will be for the Dragon Age series. I ,for one, am happy they can balance it, or seems they are.

[The Elder King]

Argahawk wrote...

TsaiMeLemoni wrote...

I love exploration, so this is good news to me (sorry you don't like it Wulfram, I understand how personally unlikeable mechanics can sour what would be an otherwise enjoyable experience).

Liking the menu interface also. My hype meter is full!

Same here, can't wait to explore every map... and find more treasure maps

I'm just hoping the "treasures" aren't the junk we found so much in previous games.

[cJohnOne]

I enjoy exploring the game world if it isn't too difficult. We'll see if you have to hurry along or take your time. Sounds like you can take your time to explore. I can see that can interfere with a sense of urgency but I'd feel I'd be missing out on part of the game.

They put in exploration because it's fun for people I imagine.

[ConvictedFish]

I want, whatever they give me. I would buy this game, if it was the worst piece of garbage on the planet. I'm a fan of Dragon Age. It's devs, its lore... everything. Whatever they give me, I will love.

[Pzykozis]

Wulfram wrote...

Look, unless you think the people who like exploration and are therefore cheering are totally kidding themselves and will be terribly disappointed, then can you please just accept that I don't like exploration and thus am not happy about it being expanded.

Haha, its all good. I can't say I understand, I love exploration almost beyond anything else but that's your thing I will say though looking at the no regen thread really doesn't make "acceptance" seem a likely event.

Well  I have to say this is looking pretty interesting definitly turning into a game to keep my beady eyes on.

Also I guess that gameinformer does the editing of the vids and chooses the soundtrack.. man that jazz, I was expecting a plumber to turn up to the inquisitors pad.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 21 août 2013 - 08:47 .

[Magdalena11]

I'm looking forward to finding all kinds of stuff. I'm not sure how it will work out yet, whether during my first game, as a post-game cool-off, or on a second playthrough. I'll see when it comes out.