31 réponses à ce sujet

[Tchos]

Basically, the question is: has anyone come up with a good way of including zombies of different races?  The D&D sourcebooks say that any race can be made into an undead, but all we get are human-shaped zombies.

Vampires and ghosts can be done with just an effect, and even skeletons can be accomplished to a limited extent with resizing, though the proportions don't look very good or convincing for most of them, and the tattered clothing on the armour parts still looks human-sized.  It's mainly the tattered clothing and the exposed bones that make this sort of thing difficult, while if I could justify a zombie wearing intact clothes, then I could just retexture the heads.  Also, what about the hunched, zombie-like pose?

Undead gnolls and bugbears and other monsters would be nice, too, but I focus mainly on the playable races just because there are so many other customisation options available for them which makes them more flexible to use in a module.

[Happycrow]

I hesitate to say it, but it seems to me the only way to do so is to take the model and put it onto a zombie skeleton (assuming you want the zombie animations to run with it), and then texture in the various bones, wounds, etcetera.

Could be done, and would even be fun to do...MASSIVE amount of work, however. I could theoretically help you with it once I've finished my own cc armor project (though I'm a self-taught neophyte compared to most of this forum's denizens)..

[MokahTGS]

There are a couple of undead models that can be faked quite well into undead ogres or giants. Dwarves are easy as you just scale the undead to look like a dwarf. For the other creatures, there are some texture packs on the vault that can work for making undead non-humanoid variants.

[Tchos]

With the way they're hunched over and with their head tilted at an angle, scaling a zombie introduces very noticeable distortion to the proportions. I cannot scale it so that it looks like a dwarf to my satisfaction. Dwarves also need to look stockier and more muscular, with thicker and shorter limbs in proportion to their heads, which scaling cannot provide.

Which are the ones that could be used for ogres or giants, Mokah?

I know of, for instance, the .SEF approach in Pain's Monster Pack that applies a rotten meat texture uniformly to any creature, but it would still need an undead-like posture, and I think that .SEF approach would also ignore all texture transparency, so even if the creature's clothing were already ripped/tattered, the effect would cause it to be whole.

I suppose texturing a creature would be the best way, if the playable races can be made to use the zombie skeleton as you suggest, Happycrow.

[Happycrow]

Well, it would need to be modelling *and* texturing, as the playable-race model would need to be rigged to the zombie model (essentially building "extra armor sets" for the zombie), and then scaled appropriately in the case of gnomes and goblins and such. It took me for-bloody-EVER to grok rigging (turns out I'm one of the freaks who prefers the weight tables, who knew), and I'm still pretty much a neophyte at uvmapping (can do it, but haven't figured out how to remove a previously-existing seam, so I tend to go "kludge rather than elegant" when reusing somebody else's models), but it can be done, and so far as I know, it's the ONLY way to do it and get what you're looking for.

Pain in the ***, but I think it would be useful for a LOT of people.

[Tchos]

Well, I don't know anything about rigging, but I know UV mapping.

[Happycrow]

Just finished part of my current setup. I have a module I'd like to work on, but until I can learn enough about scripting to make it viable, I'll see what I can do to make you a stable of ugly non-human zombies.

[Tchos]

That would be of great use to me, and no doubt to many others as well. I, for my part, can texture them.

[Alupinu]

Happycrow wrote...

Just finished part of my current setup. I have a module I'd like to work on, but until I can learn enough about scripting to make it viable, I'll see what I can do to make you a stable of ugly non-human zombies.

Yes, I for one second this idea and find this most recent development promising.

[Happycrow]

Hrm. Not going to be able to get away without scaling, no matter how this is done - unless all your half-orcs, dwarves, and kobold zombies all HAPPEN to be the same height.

Zombies are divided between body and heads, which is pretty good. What I ought to be able to do right off the bat is create thinner and stockier zombies, which should result in pretty good visual differences in a crowd and when (moderately) scaled. I can knock that out today, np.

Then we might be able to fiddle with putting alternate heads on them (the leaning is part of their animation, not the base model). Now, zombies with dwarf beards... that's gonna be a bit of a trick.

[Tchos]

The only bad scaling is trying to scale non-proportionally in the toolset (such as height-only), when the posture is already applied. Of course, whole-body scaling has no problems in that regard.

[Happycrow]

Yeah, problem I'm coming across is, whatever mesh I put in is pretty much going to have to be aligned to the zombie skeleton, which has a certain proportion to it already - I can't go much outside that without breaking the rigging entirely and creating a mess. So I can take a dwarven skin and slap it on the zombie frame, but by the time I'm done scaling and resizing and all of that, I've basically just got another zombie skin with a different texture. (Somebody who actually knows what they're doing may be able to play with the skeleton in ways that I can't)

So what I've done so far is take the zombie cloth model and tweak a number of variations, ranging from "elf decides to become a runway model" to "hulked out bodybuilder," and a couple variants in-between (including "just plain fat")

I've also made a nead with pointy ears and a narrower jawline, and one with a stronger skull and larger, stouter jaw. Third will have more of a notably jutting jaw, for half-orcs and the like, and I'll make sure there's a "jutting jaw pointy-eared" version for zombie bugbears.

Won't precisely solve your problem - but with a little creative texture-work, should get you much closer. I'll throw it up on the Vault or Nexus late tonight or this weekend, depending on when I manage to get home.

[Happycrow]

 Sorry that took so long. Nexus is... interesting... to work with.

http://neverwinter2....=publish&id=822

[Tchos]

Thank you.  I've downloaded them, though the actual URL is http://neverwinter2....ds.com/mods/822 (the other one is your personal file management page, which I can't access).  I'll see how these work.

[Tchos]

I'm afraid these variations do not go far enough to be able to tell the difference. It needs to be very much exaggerated. For a dwarven zombie in particular, the head would need to be increased in size, so that when the overall creature is shrunk, it will be about the same size proportionally, but with a smaller body. Likewise, the arms and legs would need to be thickened and bulked up much more than they are now, especially where they're thin at the knees, angles, wrists, etc., so that when the overall model is scaled, it will look proportionally more like a dwarf's stumpy limbs.

I don't know if thickening and widening to that extent is possible with this skeleton or not, but that's what it would take.

[kamal_]

I checked these out, nice. The nexus page needs a pic though so people know what they're getting.

[Happycrow]

I'll try my hand at making something workable for you, Tchos, and create an update and post images soon.

[kamal_]

One Nexus tip, if there's no picture the file will not appear on the "latest files" list, so fewer people will see it.

[Happycrow]

Took some futzing, Tchos, but I have one that will be a little more suitable. Should be up in a little bit. Have pushed the envelope as far as I dare rigging-wise, however.

[Tchos]

Sounds good!

[Happycrow]

Image shows the outsized head scaled down, but does NOT show the superthick limbs. It should be mostly workable for your needs.

Not 100% by any stretch, but I hope this gets you closer to where you need to go.

[-Semper-]

do you really need the animations of the zombie creature? perhaps it's better to re-texture an orcish or dwarfen appearance, give their hide the zombie walk property for slow movement (at least i hope this iprp does that stuff!) and equip them with an invisible weapon, so that they appear to be unarmed but don't use the martial arts animations. for atmosphere they could also carry over diseases on hit.

yeah, they won't walk and attack like the creepy z-hordes but at least they will be recognizable

[Happycrow]

I've done something similar (though didn't do the invisible weapon), and while not totally satisfying, that does let you mix in kids and stuff (which players properly tend to find disturbing).

[Tchos]

I'm going to try opening these up in Gmax and seeing if anything further can be done. Your efforts are appreciated, Happycrow.

Semper: That is a possibility I've considered. I know from posts elsewhere (I saw Dann mention it, and probably others as well) that the "zombie walk" property causes the slow movement, but the ramrod-straight standing posture of the playable races, and the casual sauntering they do during slow movement, I think would ruin any attempt at convincing a player that this is a zombie. This other, similarly difficult method is an attempt to convince a player that this zombie is a non-human. The problem for me is that I would be using these creatures for more than just attacking players, so the idle stances are important.

I've looked at alternate animations for the playable races, and the closest ones for this purpose look like the "dejected" and "drunk_idle" ones. That could work for standing characters. I also looked at "talk_injured", which might be usable for an occasional one, but it's pretty noticeable with the arm-holding and the alert-looking head movements. There's an animation called "walk_injured", but nothing played in the animation viewer for that one, so it might not exist in NWN2, and if it does, I don't know how to force a character to use a particular walking animation.

Perhaps the best solution would be to get the playable races to use the zombie's skeleton, or at least some monster's skeleton that makes them at least pose in a more bestial manner.

[Tchos]

As a followup, it seems that heads exported from Gmax don't show up on the bodies, even if I just open and resave a head without making any changes.