123 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

AstusOz wrote...

In Exile wrote...

AstusOz wrote...

I'm curious about the Mage Warden's Harrowing from DAO actually. The Pride Demon seemed to be genuinely testing The Warden as if he had been set a task. There was no real malice to him. Had The Mages struck a deal with certain demons in order for the testing?

The Pride demon isn't part of your Harrowing. DA:O had a lot of cut features. One of them was going to be that each origin gave us a personal nemesis that would feature as part of the game and then eventually contract into the main story. You see elements of that in the HN origin with Howe, for example.

My guess was that the Pride demon would have somehow tied into the Circle takeover and would have hounded you as a mage to try and take you over. 

Really? That's interesting. It's fascinating just hearing about how much was cut. It was already an extensive game and you'd think that immensely long development time would have allowed them to essentially get in everything. 

Still, I never got the impression that the Pride Demon was antagonistic. I imagine it could have easily overwhelmed the Warden at that point had it any desire to but it seemed somewhat impressed by its efforts. I just got the impression that its appearance was somewhat coordinated due to the fact that it reveals itself as you're exiting your Harrowing. It would have been interesting to run into him down the track. 

I had the exact opposite thoughts. The demon was stroking the player's ego, congratulating it on managing to kill a Rage demon (which you do nearly a hundred more times over the course of the game). I think the demon was puffing up your pride because it is... well, a pride demon. And when it's vessel begins to feel prideful is when its power and influence is greatest.

[Lee80]

Star fury wrote...

Lee80alabama wrote...

The harrowing is just a symptom of the true problem. Mages are thought as somehow less then a "human/person". No matter how many examples there are of mages who live their whole life doing nothing but good, every time one goes over to the demon side that's all people choose to see. Never mind the fact that Templars get possessed too... Until they can gain the freedom and respect due to all human beings, things like the harrowing and worse will continue.

Uhm, don't think Thedas has a concept of equal rights yet. Humans have arictocracy, dwarves have castes which is even worse. Mages being opressed makes sense, even if you don't include blood magic, abominations, Tevinter into equation.  

I totally agree.  I doubt that there will ever truly be equality in Thedas, if for no other reason then "perfect worlds" are unrealisitc and don't make for good video games. 

[phantomrachie]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

This all may be very true... but the examples you gave of the Keepers or the Seers are roles with steeped traditions and methods. Giving Mages total freedom outside of any structure at all could be miles more destructive than the Circle system. Besides, the Keepr and Seers have static, dedicated Master/Apprentice roles. It is one-on-one training, which, in every field, discipline or subject, improves the likelhiood of success.

Those systems may very well completely fall apart when applied to the level of scale needed to train and teach every Mage across Thedas, which is the task the Circle and Chantry have - or, at least, had. I'm not saying I agree with the system, but I don't think it is fair to say there is a better one by giving the Keepers and Seers as examples.

Do Keepers and Seers always have one on one training? I know Merrill did, but I was under the impression that that was because the Clan had no other Mages. I also can’t find a whole lot of lore on how Seers are trained but the Rivaini Circle did seem to train their daughters in the ways of the Seer which one indicate that it wasn’t one on one training there.

However I think you make a good point; the difference in abomination rates between the two may simply be due to the fact that they receive much more personal attention due to their smaller numbers. And while it is difficult to compare circle Mages to Keepers and Seers due to their numbers I think doing so in this case has merit because we don’t really know how many Seers, Keepers and Shaman exist in the world and because the Chantry  has caused there to be so few ways of training Mages.

Is it numbers or is it that people won’t rebel and fall prey to demons if they are treated with respect and know that they are valued?

I prefer to think that it is the latter but without more data it’s difficult to prove.

The Circle Mages that have rebelled are now in a dangerous position though – they’ve always been the oppressed underdog and as they are fighting for their freedom will be use tactics that will justify the reason for the circle in the first place? Also do they have a sold alternative Chantry oversight? So far they don’t seem to. Hopefully we’ll find out in DA:I:D

[Wulfram]

phantomrachie wrote...

Do Keepers and Seers always have one on one training? I know Merrill did, but I was under the impression that that was because the Clan had no other Mages.

Well, Lanaya seems like she was trained among others before she was picked as First, but presumably once you become First you get one on one training.

But presumably not all mages become Firsts and Keepers - people Lanaya beat for the job must have gone somewhere.  We've got Aneirin just wandering about alone.  And I believe some of the clan turn out to be mages if you attack them.

[Stella-Arc]

^That is true. Imagine my shock when Elora used Fireball on me.

I believe that mages should be tested but the way they do it is wrong. Mages are dangerous and can't be made safe. But how you treat mages could make the biggest difference. Even though the Dalish are few doesn't mean that they can't be used as an example. There are barbarian tribes that have mages and thus far seem fine. It appears that the Circle system produces more abominations than the dalish, the Seers and Shamans combined.

[MisterJB]

Evamitchelle wrote...
I'd say the abuses really are routine in most Circles. Some are worse than others (Kirkwall vs Ferelden), but all of them have not so good things happening in them. For one thing all children are taken away from their mage parents as soon as they are born (Wynne's son), mages are forcibly taken away from their families, solitary confinement as a punishment, not being allowed outside, being watched 24/7 etc. The list goes on.

When you speak of "abuses", my mind conjures images of Karras taking advantage of Alain and threatening him with Tranquility should he report it. That is to say, Templars breaking the laws of the Chantry and Circle for their own purposes. But you seem to be referring to the very methods upon which the foundations of the Circle are built which I do not believe to be abuse.
I consider taking mage children away from their non-magical families to be no more abuse than when the child protection services do the same. Non-mage parents are simply not qualified to handle mage children.

Regardng that which I consider to be actual abuses, even in Kirkwall which the devs admitted was an attempt to show both sides at their absolute worst, you can find mages who think the Circle isn't that bad and who acknowledge that most templars are just regular men and women trying to protect the people from magic, mages include; see Bethany, Ella and one mage walking around the Gallows.
Templars like Alrik and Karras are, clearly, an extreme minority.

Also I find it very telling when you say "in a place where abominations and blood mages have no access to victims". What about all the other mages who are not possessed or blood mages and have never done anything wrong ? What about all the kids ? Are they not victims too just because they have magic ?

A poor choice of words. I meant that Abominations will have an harder time finding defenseless victims because the average mage can defend himself or herself better than the average normal and since the population density of a Circle will be smaller than that of a city and the templars are just down the corridor, the number of casualties will be much smaller.

[TheKomandorShepard]

MisterJB wrote...

Evamitchelle wrote...
I'd say the abuses really are routine in most Circles. Some are worse than others (Kirkwall vs Ferelden), but all of them have not so good things happening in them. For one thing all children are taken away from their mage parents as soon as they are born (Wynne's son), mages are forcibly taken away from their families, solitary confinement as a punishment, not being allowed outside, being watched 24/7 etc. The list goes on.

When you speak of "abuses", my mind conjures images of Karras taking advantage of Alain and threatening him with Tranquility should he report it. That is to say, Templars breaking the laws of the Chantry and Circle for their own purposes. But you seem to be referring to the very methods upon which the foundations of the Circle are built which I do not believe to be abuse.
I consider taking mage children away from their non-magical families to be no more abuse than when the child protection services do the same. Non-mage parents are simply not qualified to handle mage children.

Regardng that which I consider to be actual abuses, even in Kirkwall which the devs admitted was an attempt to show both sides at their absolute worst, you can find mages who think the Circle isn't that bad and who acknowledge that most templars are just regular men and women trying to protect the people from magic, mages include; see Bethany, Ella and one mage walking around the Gallows.
Templars like Alrik and Karras are, clearly, an extreme minority.

1:02 templars know about it:)
well they don't have problem with torture
Arlic and karras seems have own peoples who follow them
We can hear mages beaten in gallows
We can hear templars calling mages robes which is insult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7UfzZIVAUA wow great reaction to apostate we can feel love:)

from origins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAMLoI9W3JI 4:04 gregoir try punish our character even if we help circle for reason well guess if you are mage you can be punished for whatever but if chantry men need be punished you need do a lot stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogFDLxcAPUg irving try give us advice gregoir interrupts increasing the chances of our death or possession.


from asunder
“You think I don’t know every templar in the tower by now? Some of them far better than I’d like. She touched the bruise on her cheek, and the elven boy scowled but said nothing"

"Few of the tower’s templars were kind, and most believed that mages constantly conspired to commit unspeakable horrors when the truth was usually much more mundane. Most of their conversation consisted of gossip."

"The Lord Seeker leapt forward and grabbed Rhys by the throat.
The steel gauntlets pressed painfully into his skin as the man
forced Rhys to look at him. Those grey eyes burned now, his patience
at an end. “Confess,” he demanded.
-You will tell the first enchanters you have been under the influence of a demon. You
killed the elf, killed all of them, and unwittingly empowered this
demon to manipulate the mages of this tower.
And if I don’t?” Rhys said between gritted teeth.
Then you will die. He released his grip, stepping back once again"

"One of the templars had loomed over him, a fellow with a
large nose— the same one that had been waiting at Adamant.
Now you’ ll get what you deserve, all of you he’d said . . . and then
stabbed Rhys. He could still feel the cold blade sliding into his
stomach as if it were yesterday."

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 22 août 2013 - 05:00 .

[Cantina]

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

[Dave of Canada]

Cantina wrote...

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

Except the Harrowing's purpose isn't to prove the mage immune to demonic corruption, it proves the mage can defend themselves if left to their own. It weeds out those who'd get possessed and slaughter dozens more.

If they really intended to make sure no demons spilled out, they'd slaughter all mages. That isn't the purpose, though. They're trying to offer mages a comfortable life away from the angry masses, something which protects them and the common folk. The Harrowing would make that comfortable life a scary hell.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 août 2013 - 06:51 .

[Star fury]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Except the Harrowing's purpose isn't to prove the mage immune to demonic corruption, it proves the mage can defend themselves if left to their own. It weeds out those who'd get possessed and slaughter dozens more.

If they really intended to make sure no demons spilled out, they'd slaughter all mages. That isn't the purpose, though. They're trying to offer mages a comfortable life away from the angry masses, something which protects them and the common folk. The Harrowing would make that comfortable life a scary hell.

I don't see common folk protesting against mages. Some even ask help from witches or apostates, like Fereldens in Kirkwall went to Anders' clinic. 

[In Exile]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
I alwasy felt that the Pride Demon that possessed Uldred being the demon you talked with would have been a cool touch. A line like "Don't you remember me? You promised me you would get me out of the Fade... well here I am."

Similarly, I think they could have done something with the Tevinter slavers in Denerim so that it would have tied to the Landsmeet section, just like Howe did. 

I like the idea of an Origin-specific nemesis. That would have been a blast to play.

DA:O had a lot of great ideas that were left on the cutting room floor. Also some really not so great ideas (see e.g. your post about what we would have had instead of the DR). 

AstusOz wrote...
Really? That's interesting. It's fascinating just hearing about how much was cut. It was already an extensive game and you'd think that immensely long development time would have allowed them to essentially get in everything.

I think this was cut in the concept stage (it was before my time on the old, old bioware DA boards), but apparently DA:O was originally going to be a multiplayer game like NWN, with each "origin" being a starter area for a character and the party meeting at Ostagar as a group of GWs. Kind of like what TOR became.

I imagine it could have easily overwhelmed the Warden at that point had it any desire to but it seemed somewhat impressed by its efforts. I just got the impression that its appearance was somewhat coordinated due to the fact that it reveals itself as you're exiting your Harrowing. It would have been interesting to run into him down the track.  

The Pride demon wants to you to let it in. It's not as good a match when it's not a voluntary takeover. 

[Evamitchelle]

MisterJB wrote...
When you speak of "abuses", my mind conjures images of Karras taking advantage of Alain and threatening him with Tranquility should he report it. That is to say, Templars breaking the laws of the Chantry and Circle for their own purposes. But you seem to be referring to the very methods upon which the foundations of the Circle are built which I do not believe to be abuse.

Well yeah, I do believe the Circle is usually wrong even when the Chantry's rules are being followed (like not allowing mages to step outside the tower, making Tranquil apprentices you think might be too weak etc.), but there are plenty of instances of templars not following the rules in Circles other than Kirkwall's. Like the templars forgetting about Cole in the White Spire.

MisterJB wrote...
I consider taking mage children away from their non-magical families to be no more abuse than when the child protection services do the same. Non-mage parents are simply not qualified to handle mage children.

And though I agree that a non-mage parent is not adequately equipped to train a mage child, separating them entirely is not a good option. Finn is pretty much the only mage we've met that was still in contact with his parents, and that's probably because they're rich and/or influential. The De Launcet in Kirkwall hadn't seen their son since he was 6 years old...

Even mage parents are not allowed to keep their children, though it seems to me that a parent-child training would be a lot better than what the Circle could offer (Malcolm did a fine job with Bethany and mage Hawke for example, and I'm pretty sure Wynne would have been an awesome mentor for her son). 

MisterJB wrote...
Regardng that which I consider to be actual abuses, even in Kirkwall which the devs admitted was an attempt to show both sides at their absolute worst, you can find mages who think the Circle isn't that bad and who acknowledge that most templars are just regular men and women trying to protect the people from magic, mages include; see Bethany, Ella and one mage walking around the Gallows.
Templars like Alrik and Karras are, clearly, an extreme minority.

As for mages who think Kirkwall isn't so bad, I'm pretty sure Bethany is sheltered from the worst of it because she's Hawke's sister (in the same way that Merrill and Anders aren't too bothered by the templars despite being well-known apostates), and I haven't sent Ella back to the Circle in a while so I don't remember what she says. 

[Lokiwithrope]

What I want to know is why the Pride Demon let the Mage Warden go. Why would it do that, in any circumstance? It knew the Mage Warden was an apprentice... why not possess him? A Pride Demon's surely powerful enough to overcome a few Templars.

Modifié par Lokiwithrope, 23 août 2013 - 04:24 .

[LadyRaena13]

Evamitchelle wrote...

They never said being in the Fade was necessary to become possessed, or do you think all the mages in Kinloch Hold were in the Fade with Uldred ? It's especially clear in the final battle against him when they show you a mage turning into an abomination simply by saying "yes" to Uldred's proposition. There are also several codex entries that report mages turning into abominations when being cornered by templars.

See this is were it gets a little tricky...Uldred and his conspiritors were blood mages, and Uldred was an abomination already when he started turning the other mages in the Harrowing Chamber into abominations as well. THUS he was a demon in human form and didn't need to be in the fade. Blood mages learn magic from demons and can sunder the veil to bring the demons into the real world.

[Star fury]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

What I want to know is why the Pride Demon let the Mage Warden go. Why would it do that, in any circumstance? It knew the Mage Warden was an apprentice... why not possess him? A Pride Demon's surely powerful enough to overcome a few Templars.

Otherwise it would have been a game over for a mage player.

 

[Star fury]

LadyRaena13 wrote...
See this is were it gets a little tricky...Uldred and his conspiritors were blood mages, and Uldred was an abomination already when he started turning the other mages in the Harrowing Chamber into abominations as well. THUS he was a demon in human form and didn't need to be in the fade. Blood mages learn magic from demons and can sunder the veil to bring the demons into the real world.

More likely it means that Bioware don't know yet what to do with their own lore and metaphysics. 

Modifié par Star fury, 23 août 2013 - 04:44 .

[LadyRaena13]

Star fury wrote...

LadyRaena13 wrote...
See this is were it gets a little tricky...Uldred and his conspiritors were blood mages, and Uldred was an abomination already when he started turning the other mages in the Harrowing Chamber into abominations as well. THUS he was a demon in human form and didn't need to be in the fade. Blood mages learn magic from demons and can sunder the veil to bring the demons into the real world.

More likely it means that Bioware don' know yet what to do with their own lore and metaphysics. 

OMG LOL yes! That's also a possibilty writers and devs probably get so confused on all the junk codex pages and the massive amounts of lore they keep piling onto the stack that by now they have no clue how to sort it all out.

[Nightdragon8]

Evamitchelle wrote...

Ukki wrote...

Evamitchelle wrote...

They never said being in the Fade was necessary to become possessed, or do you think all the mages in Kinloch Hold were in the Fade with Uldred ? It's especially clear in the final battle against him when they show you a mage turning into an abomination simply by saying "yes" to Uldred's proposition. There are also several codex entries that report mages turning into abominations when being cornered by templars.

That's why Harrowing is useless. For any mage their entire life is just constant Harrowing. Why go to Fade when demons can come to you when you are taking a dump? For any mage reaching adulthood is initself a proof that he can keep demons out. Otherwise he would be running around as a teen age monster.

Obviously it's not a fool-proof method, otherwise there would never be any abominations. But they had to come up with some kind of test, so they figure that if a teenager can resist a demon after being dragged in the Fade in the middle of the night without warning or explanation it's an indication that in normal circumstances they won't get possessed. 

And you are exaggerating how easy it is to possess a mage. You don't get possessed because you had a micro-second of inattention, you get possessed when you agree to let a spirit/demon in. 

Honestly think of the barrior between the fade and reality like a cotton fabric. Put it in rain, and while water will get though (magic) it till still protect, however make the cotton thin in a place and alot more can come though at it allows Demons to get though easier.

The Barrier in Kirkwall was propusfully weakened by the treventors in order for them to more easily do there experments. I mean it was a Trevenior prison for god sakes I wouldn't doubt the averenge lifespan was under 5 years in there.

So the Harrowing is not a full proof plan that takes into consideration that the Barrior can be propsuflly be thined in a CITY wide area. In DA:O it was thinner in Redcliff(??) outside the castle. Cause of a ranpaging demon, Now if a group of mages proposfully made the veil thin in a city wide area. There is no test that could really prevent that sort of thing from happening.

Also do we even know if they where post Harrowed mages anyway? All I remember most of them saying is "Mage"
It would stand to reason that there would be more non-circle mages than circle mages in a given area.

Also from what I remember the ones in the Temple with you didn't turn into possised mages. It was only the Grand Enchanter that did it, and just took the bodies of the others. (which at that time I don't think they get a choice in what people do with there bodies)

So unless all the mages in Kirkwall where circle mages then I would say you have a valid arguement. Sadly something like this can only be answered by the writers so.

[septembervirgin]

So the Harrowing is not a full proof plan that takes into consideration that the Barrior can be propsuflly be thined in a CITY wide area. In DA:O it was thinner in Redcliff(??) outside the castle. Cause of a ranpaging demon, Now if a group of mages proposfully made the veil thin in a city wide area. There is no test that could really prevent that sort of thing from happening.

The cause of a thin veil in Redcliffe might not just have been a demon.  We are given cause to wonder why Redcliffe is called Redcliffe.  Leliana suggests that such a place name might be due to a cataclysm or slaughter.  It might just be that Redcliffe was so-called due to an event which permenantly weakened the Veil.  Of course, we'll probably never know.

The Harrowing seems to me to be a safeguard.  It exists as the best protection the Templars and Mages can think of -- and they don't really have anything better.  To emulate another culture would be forbidden to them, at least while they were Andrastean.  The worship of Andraste would suggest against any sort of agreement or friendship or formal contract with demons.  This alone might be what is causing so many Abominations.

[Evamitchelle]

Nightdragon8 wrote...
Honestly think of the barrior between the fade and reality like a cotton fabric. Put it in rain, and while water will get though (magic) it till still protect, however make the cotton thin in a place and alot more can come though at it allows Demons to get though easier. 

The Barrier in Kirkwall was propusfully weakened by the treventors in order for them to more easily do there experments. I mean it was a Trevenior prison for god sakes I wouldn't doubt the averenge lifespan was under 5 years in there.

So the Harrowing is not a full proof plan that takes into consideration that the Barrior can be propsuflly be thined in a CITY wide area. In DA:O it was thinner in Redcliff(??) outside the castle. Cause of a ranpaging demon, Now if a group of mages proposfully made the veil thin in a city wide area. There is no test that could really prevent that sort of thing from happening.

Also do we even know if they where post Harrowed mages anyway? All I remember most of them saying is "Mage"
It would stand to reason that there would be more non-circle mages than circle mages in a given area.

Also from what I remember the ones in the Temple with you didn't turn into possised mages. It was only the Grand Enchanter that did it, and just took the bodies of the others. (which at that time I don't think they get a choice in what people do with there bodies)

So unless all the mages in Kirkwall where circle mages then I would say you have a valid arguement. Sadly something like this can only be answered by the writers so.

The apprentice mages (aka non-Harrowed) are always the most numerous in the Circle. Once they pass the Harrowing they simply move out of the apprentice dormitories into the mage dormitories, though they can also be transferred to other Circles (Karl from Ferelden to Kirkwall). When Orsino turned into the Harvester he used the dead bodies of the other mages I think, so no need for their permission. 

Also I think it's been heavily implied that the reason the Veil is so thin in Kirkwall is that it was the place where the Magisters physically entered the Black City. No wonder they have so many problems. 

[Gwinever]

From the wiki on why Redcliffe is called Redcliffe:
Sitting on the western shore of Lake Calenhad, the village of Redcliffe is so named for the reddish hues of the cliffs that tower above it. A path leads up into the hills and across a bridge to an island where the ancient Castle Redcliffe has stood far longer than the village itself.

As for the Harrowing, i think it was mostly put into place to protect the inhabitins of the towers by weeding out the week who refuse tranquility. We are told the practise of bloodmagic is rare in circles and even more so are demonic posesions/abominations.
Gameplay bloats these things out of proportians for the sake of gameplay and having stuff to do/kill

[Gwinever]

Evamitchelle wrote...

Nightdragon8 wrote...
Honestly think of the barrior between the fade and reality like a cotton fabric. Put it in rain, and while water will get though (magic) it till still protect, however make the cotton thin in a place and alot more can come though at it allows Demons to get though easier. 

The Barrier in Kirkwall was propusfully weakened by the treventors in order for them to more easily do there experments. I mean it was a Trevenior prison for god sakes I wouldn't doubt the averenge lifespan was under 5 years in there.

So the Harrowing is not a full proof plan that takes into consideration that the Barrior can be propsuflly be thined in a CITY wide area. In DA:O it was thinner in Redcliff(??) outside the castle. Cause of a ranpaging demon, Now if a group of mages proposfully made the veil thin in a city wide area. There is no test that could really prevent that sort of thing from happening.

Also do we even know if they where post Harrowed mages anyway? All I remember most of them saying is "Mage"
It would stand to reason that there would be more non-circle mages than circle mages in a given area.

Also from what I remember the ones in the Temple with you didn't turn into possised mages. It was only the Grand Enchanter that did it, and just took the bodies of the others. (which at that time I don't think they get a choice in what people do with there bodies)

So unless all the mages in Kirkwall where circle mages then I would say you have a valid arguement. Sadly something like this can only be answered by the writers so.

The apprentice mages (aka non-Harrowed) are always the most numerous in the Circle. Once they pass the Harrowing they simply move out of the apprentice dormitories into the mage dormitories, though they can also be transferred to other Circles (Karl from Ferelden to Kirkwall). When Orsino turned into the Harvester he used the dead bodies of the other mages I think, so no need for their permission. 

Also I think it's been heavily implied that the reason the Veil is so thin in Kirkwall is that it was the place where the Magisters physically entered the Black City. No wonder they have so many problems. 

Orsino turned to bloodmagic to turn into the Harvester after everyone was death and corpses don't have oppinions:devil:

The Veil was allrdy thin at Kirkwall when the city was founded (it's why they chose the location to build the city) as to why that was/is no reason is given, however the magisters thinned it further on purpose. The Band of Three codex entrees implies the Magisters where doing so secretvely and dangerous they didn't want even the rest of tevinter knowing about what they doing there (at the time kirkwall was located outside Tevinters borders).

Also, the Legacy DLC implies that Corypheus played a large part of why Kirkwall is teeming with Bloodmages and having so much troubles.

[Evamitchelle]

Gwinever wrote...
The Veil was allrdy thin at Kirkwall when the city was founded (it's why they chose the location to build the city) as to why that was/is no reason is given, however the magisters thinned it further on purpose. The Band of Three codex entrees implies the Magisters where doing so secretvely and dangerous they didn't want even the rest of tevinter knowing about what they doing there (at the time kirkwall was located outside Tevinters borders).

Also, the Legacy DLC implies that Corypheus played a large part of why Kirkwall is teeming with Bloodmages and having so much troubles.

According to The World of Thedas Kirkwall (then named Emerius) was founded in -620 Ancient "as a settlement for slaves, largely to mine the jet stone used for construction of the great temples of Minrathous". There's no indication that the Veil was already thin when they settled there (unless I skipped something in the codex ?). 

Then in -395 Ancient "in secret, a group of the most powerful Tevinter magisters open a gate into the Golden City, entering it physically. They are cast violently back into the physical world twisted and corrupted - the first darkspawn", which is in accordance with what the Band of Three found out. 

Considering that Corypheus is just outside Kirkwall, I'm pretty convinced Kirkwall is where the magisters entered the Golden City. 

[Zanallen]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'll be honest--one thing worries me a bit about the Harrowing. If a mage is a dunce, just thick as bricks, stupid, whatever non-PC description you can come up with--they will be easy pickings for the demon, even if they don't have evil or even bad intentions.

Only mages who have proven themselves ready are eligible to undertake the Harrowing. People who refuse or are just too incompetent are either killed or made Tranquil.