123 réponses à ce sujet

[elfdwarf]

Lokiwithrope wrote...

What I want to know is why the Pride Demon let the Mage Warden go. Why would it do that, in any circumstance? It knew the Mage Warden was an apprentice... why not possess him? A Pride Demon's surely powerful enough to overcome a few Templars.

was mouse a pride demon? (i was hoping he would be  Despair Demon  or new type demon)

[Star fury]

Evamitchelle wrote...
According to The World of Thedas Kirkwall (then named Emerius) was founded in -620 Ancient "as a settlement for slaves, largely to mine the jet stone used for construction of the great temples of Minrathous". There's no indication that the Veil was already thin when they settled there (unless I skipped something in the codex ?). 

Then in -395 Ancient "in secret, a group of the most powerful Tevinter magisters open a gate into the Golden City, entering it physically. They are cast violently back into the physical world twisted and corrupted - the first darkspawn", which is in accordance with what the Band of Three found out. 

Considering that Corypheus is just outside Kirkwall, I'm pretty convinced Kirkwall is where the magisters entered the Golden City. 

The Veil is thin in Kirkwall because of a death of Tevinter slaves, who had worked in a mine in brutal conditions, and from possible sacrifices. Magisters demanded production no matter the cost.

[Ieldra]

Evamitchelle wrote...
Also I think it's been heavily implied that the reason the Veil is so thin in Kirkwall is that it was the place where the Magisters physically entered the Black City. No wonder they have so many problems. 

Not exactly, no. It is hinted that it may have something to do with Corypheus presence in the vicinity, and/or with the deaths of slaves in the mines. Death on a large scale is known to thin the Veil.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2013 - 09:32 .

[Evamitchelle]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Not exactly, no. It is hinted that it may have something to do with Corypheus presence in the vicinity, and/or with the deaths of slaves in the mines. Death on a large scale is known to thin the Veil. 

According to the Band of Three, hundreds of slaves disappeared every year from Kirkwall. If they were simply used to work the mines the magisters would not have needed to make them disappear, since mining is the city's official business. "At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?"  I think it more likely that the slaves were used as blood sacrifices, and my idea is that they were used in an attempt to physically enter the Fade and the Golden City. It's mentioned in the codex that 2/3 of Tevinter's lyrium supply and the lifeblood of several hundred slaves were required to achieve that, and since Emerius/Kirkwall was the major slave settlement in the Imperium, it makes sense that the sacrificed slaves would be from this city. 

Also I'm not questionning that Corypheus influenced (badly) Kirkwall a great deal, I'm questionning what he was doing so close to Kirkwall in the first place. We know he's now a powerful darkspawn, but he used to be a Tevinter magister who worshipped Dumat and went into the Golden City and has apparently been trapped ever since. "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long ?"

All in all I'm pretty convinced that Kirkwall was indeed the place where they physically the Fade, which I think is bound to cause some major problems with Veil-thinning, demons and blood mages. 

[Lord Raijin]

Cantina wrote...

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

I'm surprise nobody mention this but non-mages can not only be influenced by demons, but they can also be posessed by them as well. If the Harrowing was so effective then why aren't Non-Mages forced to undergo this practice? Especially Templars who specifically deal with mages?

Remember when we first metup with the Knight-Captain Cullen in DA2? He was seen beating up his own Templar recruit who shortly turned into an Abomination. In his own words "Normally, we only worry that mages will
fall victim to posessesion."



By the Chantry logic behind the Harrowing everyone should be forced to be taken away from their homes, and to be sent to the Circle where they would undergo the Harrowing ritual to determine if they can fight off the posession and influences of a demon.

[Gwinever]

Evamitchelle wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
Not exactly, no. It is hinted that it may have something to do with Corypheus presence in the vicinity, and/or with the deaths of slaves in the mines. Death on a large scale is known to thin the Veil. 

According to the Band of Three, hundreds of slaves disappeared every year from Kirkwall. If they were simply used to work the mines the magisters would not have needed to make them disappear, since mining is the city's official business. "At least a thousand unfortunates died here every year for centuries. For what ungodly purpose would one need so much power?"  I think it more likely that the slaves were used as blood sacrifices, and my idea is that they were used in an attempt to physically enter the Fade and the Golden City. It's mentioned in the codex that 2/3 of Tevinter's lyrium supply and the lifeblood of several hundred slaves were required to achieve that, and since Emerius/Kirkwall was the major slave settlement in the Imperium, it makes sense that the sacrificed slaves would be from this city. 

Also I'm not questionning that Corypheus influenced (badly) Kirkwall a great deal, I'm questionning what he was doing so close to Kirkwall in the first place. We know he's now a powerful darkspawn, but he used to be a Tevinter magister who worshipped Dumat and went into the Golden City and has apparently been trapped ever since. "The light. We sought the golden light. You offered... the power of the gods themselves. But it was... black... corrupt. Darkness... ever since. How long ?"

All in all I'm pretty convinced that Kirkwall was indeed the place where they physically the Fade, which I think is bound to cause some major problems with Veil-thinning, demons and blood mages. 

Reading the codex back again after a long time i actually think you might be right mostly cause of this section:

A master mason made a comment that set my mind afire. She said that
of all the cities she's worked in, Kirkwall was the most difficult, and
that the city is almost literally a maze. Recollecting my first years in
Kirkwall, I have to agree. Getting lost was commonplace. The city was a
sprawling mess.
The mason showed me a plan of the city, and my heart skipped a
beat. There were patterns in the intersections, back alleys, and
boulevards. Some magisters believed in the power of symbols or shapes.
In the oldest parts of the city, one can make out the outlines of glyphs
in the very streets! What manner of magic is this?
And it made me believe Kirkwall will play another huge role in DA:I cause of this:
We went to the center of it all. F. is dead and I am alone and
injured. I must go back and put an end to it. The maddening thing is
there is still no answer. But the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it
is, must be destroyed. I fear one may already be unbound.
I foreswear my oaths. The magister's lore must be burned and the ashes scattered. No good can come of it. And Maker help us if someone does answer what we could not.
The forgotten one might be the next antagonist/end boss and the one that is unbound might be reverring to either Gaxkang, or another of the Ancient demons

[Gwinever]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

I'm surprise nobody mention this but non-mages can not only be influenced by demons, but they can also be posessed by them as well. If the Harrowing was so effective then why aren't Non-Mages forced to undergo this practice? Especially Templars who specifically deal with mages?

Remember when we first metup with the Knight-Captain Cullen in DA2? He was seen beating up his own Templar recruit who shortly turned into an Abomination. In his own words "Normally, we only worry that mages will
fall victim to posessesion."



By the Chantry logic behind the Harrowing everyone should be forced to be taken away from their homes, and to be sent to the Circle where they would undergo the Harrowing ritual to determine if they can fight off the posession and influences of a demon.

Ofcourse normal people can be posesed, but they can't be posesed fromout the Fade cause they do not experience the Fade in a  waking state. And therefor are only a reason to worry of being possesed when blood magic/ripped veil is in play

Modifié par Gwinever, 23 août 2013 - 12:57 .

[Evamitchelle]

Gwinever wrote...
Reading the codex back again after a long time i actually think you might be right mostly cause of this section:

A master mason made a comment that set my mind afire. She said that
of all the cities she's worked in, Kirkwall was the most difficult, and
that the city is almost literally a maze. Recollecting my first years in
Kirkwall, I have to agree. Getting lost was commonplace. The city was a
sprawling mess.
The mason showed me a plan of the city, and my heart skipped a
beat. There were patterns in the intersections, back alleys, and
boulevards. Some magisters believed in the power of symbols or shapes.
In the oldest parts of the city, one can make out the outlines of glyphs
in the very streets! What manner of magic is this?
And it made me believe Kirkwall will play another huge role in DA:I cause of this:
We went to the center of it all. F. is dead and I am alone and
injured. I must go back and put an end to it. The maddening thing is
there is still no answer. But the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it
is, must be destroyed. I fear one may already be unbound.
I foreswear my oaths. The magister's lore must be burned and the ashes scattered. No good can come of it. And Maker help us if someone does answer what we could not.
The forgotten one might be the next antagonist/end boss and the one that is unbound might be reverring to either Gaxkang, or another of the Ancient demons

Maybe he was referring the Forbidden One that was under Kirkwall (and that Hawke possibly killed) ? I think there are 4 in total, so there are probably 2 others still walking around. Or maybe he's talking about Corypheus ?

[leaguer of one]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Evamitchelle wrote...
Also I think it's been heavily implied that the reason the Veil is so thin in Kirkwall is that it was the place where the Magisters physically entered the Black City. No wonder they have so many problems. 

Not exactly, no. It is hinted that it may have something to do with Corypheus presence in the vicinity, and/or with the deaths of slaves in the mines. Death on a large scale is known to thin the Veil.

Or the war with the elves on sundermount.

[leaguer of one]

Evamitchelle wrote...

Gwinever wrote...
Reading the codex back again after a long time i actually think you might be right mostly cause of this section:

A master mason made a comment that set my mind afire. She said that
of all the cities she's worked in, Kirkwall was the most difficult, and
that the city is almost literally a maze. Recollecting my first years in
Kirkwall, I have to agree. Getting lost was commonplace. The city was a
sprawling mess.
The mason showed me a plan of the city, and my heart skipped a
beat. There were patterns in the intersections, back alleys, and
boulevards. Some magisters believed in the power of symbols or shapes.
In the oldest parts of the city, one can make out the outlines of glyphs
in the very streets! What manner of magic is this?
And it made me believe Kirkwall will play another huge role in DA:I cause of this:
We went to the center of it all. F. is dead and I am alone and
injured. I must go back and put an end to it. The maddening thing is
there is still no answer. But the Forgotten One, or demon or whatever it
is, must be destroyed. I fear one may already be unbound.
I foreswear my oaths. The magister's lore must be burned and the ashes scattered. No good can come of it. And Maker help us if someone does answer what we could not.
The forgotten one might be the next antagonist/end boss and the one that is unbound might be reverring to either Gaxkang, or another of the Ancient demons

Maybe he was referring the Forbidden One that was under Kirkwall (and that Hawke possibly killed) ? I think there are 4 in total, so there are probably 2 others still walking around. Or maybe he's talking about Corypheus ?

But he/she has a point.... Look at this concept art of DAI...



And the lines with it is...
"What pride had wrought…"

Modifié par leaguer of one, 23 août 2013 - 02:39 .

[leaguer of one]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

I'm surprise nobody mention this but non-mages can not only be influenced by demons, but they can also be posessed by them as well. If the Harrowing was so effective then why aren't Non-Mages forced to undergo this practice? Especially Templars who specifically deal with mages?

Remember when we first metup with the Knight-Captain Cullen in DA2? He was seen beating up his own Templar recruit who shortly turned into an Abomination. In his own words "Normally, we only worry that mages will
fall victim to posessesion."



By the Chantry logic behind the Harrowing everyone should be forced to be taken away from their homes, and to be sent to the Circle where they would undergo the Harrowing ritual to determine if they can fight off the posession and influences of a demon.

A demon can only possesse a non-mage with help from Mages. That mission states that fact.

[Lokiwithrope]

elfdwarf wrote...

Lokiwithrope wrote...

What I want to know is why the Pride Demon let the Mage Warden go. Why would it do that, in any circumstance? It knew the Mage Warden was an apprentice... why not possess him? A Pride Demon's surely powerful enough to overcome a few Templars.

was mouse a pride demon? (i was hoping he would be  Despair Demon  or new type demon)

He was. His spikes and size gave it away.

[Beerfish]

Star fury wrote...



I think this is a very interesting point to discuss. What are your thoughts about it. In my opinion, Harrowing is a failed attempt to make the game more dark and realistic, instead it's just stupid. It's just stupid waste of rare talent, not even mentioning moral aspects.   

The Grey Wardens are the very worst at stupid wastes of rare talent.

As for the harrowing, yeah tough to know what to think about it as a test.  I think without it the number of possessed mages and the havoc they coulc wreak would increase by alot.

[legbamel]

I think the reason we see much more demonic possession and turning to blood magic in the Circles than in the Dalish or Chasind is that they don't live under the daily stress that Circle mages do. From the time they're taken from their parents to the time they die, every day involves their being told in one way or another that they're not to be trusted.

Some people might deal quite well with a theoretically quiet, studious life. They may be comfortable and learn to slide through life with their heads down just doing their thing. But mages with a bit of spirit, mages who would like to be the sorts of people they saw out in the world before being locked behind stone walls for the crime of being who they are, mages who want a modicum of privacy or the freedom to grow a garden or run a shop, they have no options.

Mages are told, despite providing every evidence required that they can handle themselves, that they are weak and dangerous. They're told this their whole lives, despite any mastery they acquire. They're told they can't raise their own children because...I don't even know why.

If they were allowed to create small schools, where kids could still be a part of the world and their own families, wouldn't that help alleviate the frustration and resentment that the Chantry ingrains in mages? Wouldn't it eliminate the fear, if they could actually report abuses and have something done about a rogue Templar or a teacher promoting blood magic? Wouldn't it prevent a large number of people being cooped up with nothing to do but seethe and learn to be more powerful?

[azarhal]

leaguer of one wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

I'm surprise nobody mention this but non-mages can not only be influenced by demons, but they can also be posessed by them as well. If the Harrowing was so effective then why aren't Non-Mages forced to undergo this practice? Especially Templars who specifically deal with mages?

Remember when we first metup with the Knight-Captain Cullen in DA2? He was seen beating up his own Templar recruit who shortly turned into an Abomination. In his own words "Normally, we only worry that mages will
fall victim to posessesion."



By the Chantry logic behind the Harrowing everyone should be forced to be taken away from their homes, and to be sent to the Circle where they would undergo the Harrowing ritual to determine if they can fight off the posession and influences of a demon.

A demon can only possesse a non-mage with help from Mages. That mission states that fact.

A none-mage require a Mage "help" to be possessed only if the demon comes from the Fade. The mage helps connecting the none-mage to the Fade so the demon can have access to them. This is all they do.

A demon walking around out of the Fade already can possess anything, from trees to corpses without any mage help.

[dragonflight288]

leaguer of one wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

Cantina wrote...

Personally, the “Harrowing” is an idiotic test that is nothing more than The Chantry’s way of having more control over the mages. The test itself does not prove or disprove that a mage can overcome the effects of any demon.

“Oh, you past the test!” “Congrats!” “Here are your spiffy new robes,a ring and a title that does not mean squat!” Three years later the same damn mage takes an offer from a demon and decides blood magic is way cooler than regular magic.

Uldred is a great example that the "Harrowing" is a pointless test.

I'm surprise nobody mention this but non-mages can not only be influenced by demons, but they can also be posessed by them as well. If the Harrowing was so effective then why aren't Non-Mages forced to undergo this practice? Especially Templars who specifically deal with mages?

Remember when we first metup with the Knight-Captain Cullen in DA2? He was seen beating up his own Templar recruit who shortly turned into an Abomination. In his own words "Normally, we only worry that mages will
fall victim to posessesion."



By the Chantry logic behind the Harrowing everyone should be forced to be taken away from their homes, and to be sent to the Circle where they would undergo the Harrowing ritual to determine if they can fight off the posession and influences of a demon.

A demon can only possesse a non-mage with help from Mages. That mission states that fact.

Not true. A non-mage can be possessed by a demon in the real world just as easily as a mage. The only difference is mages can enter the fade consciously, whether using a lot of lyrium or if the mage in question is a somniari/dreamer. A mage can help turn a non-mage into an abomination, by helping a demon come to this side of the veil, but even non-mages can sunder the veil.

This happened by the actions of the chantry and the templars when they called an exalted march on the rivaini qunari. They slaughtered them in such numbers that the veil was sundered...and then denied doing it. It happened in the Becilian forest because of a war, and spirits came across to our end, and started possessing the first things they came across....in this case, trees, and thus became sylvans.

Lady Herriman is certainly not a mage as is made clear in-game, but a Desire demon had given her blood-magelike powers, and she didn't have the help of a mage.

When a demon comes to our side, whether they were summoned by an idiotic mage, or because they were able to force their way across in an area where the veil is torn, at that point, anything and anyone is fair game. Mage, non-mage, animals, trees, dead corpses....anything.

[MisterJB]

legbamel wrote...
They're told they can't raise their own children because...I don't even know why.

Three very simple reasons.
1-Children create emotional instability. Parents do things for their kids they would never do for themselves. A mage parent who faces the perspective for his/her offspring spending all their lives inside the Circle might just do something we will all regret.

2-Magical talent doesn't manifest until around puberty. What if the kid is normal? S/he will have spent their childhood years inside the Circle for no real reason and then be thrown into the world without as much preparation as s/he should have.
I guess that they might have the options of becoming templars since it's something they're familiar with but I wouldn't trust a Templar whose family members were mages, just look at Thrask.

3-Population control. The Circle is supposed to be a self sustainable community. If we add mages reproducing themselves to the constant inflow of mage children born to outside parents, we have an overpopulation problem on our hands. mages will start looking to the outside world as the solution to their problem (not that they already don't overglorify it, naive that they are) and the less mages there are, the easier they are to control.

Modifié par MisterJB, 23 août 2013 - 04:10 .

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
This happened by the actions of the chantry and the templars when they called an exalted march on the rivaini qunari.

No one called an Exalted March on the Rivaini Qunari. That massacre was conducted by Rivaini nationalists and I would like to call to attention the fact that, by remaining in Rivain, those qunari were breaking the terms of the treaty that called for an armstice.

Lady Herriman is certainly not a mage as is made clear in-game, but a Desire demon had given her blood-magelike powers, and she didn't have the help of a mage.

She wasn't possessed by a demon. She was seduced by one,

When a demon comes to our side, whether they were summoned by an idiotic mage, or because they were able to force their way across in an area where the veil is torn, at that point, anything and anyone is fair game. Mage, non-mage, animals, trees, dead corpses....anything.

But, at best, a sylvan or a corpse will try to hit you with its arms. An actual Abomination has acess to magical abilities making them that much more dangerous.

[dragonflight288]

[quote]MisterJB wrote...

[quote]dragonflight288 wrote...
This happened by the actions of the chantry and the templars when they called an exalted march on the rivaini qunari.
[/quote]
No one called an Exalted March on the Rivaini Qunari. That massacre was conducted by Rivaini nationalists and I would like to call to attention the fact that, by remaining in Rivain, those qunari were breaking the terms of the treaty that called for an armstice.[/quote]

The Llmaerryn Accords make it clear it was the Rivaini Chantry that violated the treaty and slaughtered them. The point I was making though, is that non-mages can sunder and tear the veil themselves, and it was done by the Riviani Chantry, who then denied attacking the Qunari who refused to leave.

Non-mages still sundered the veil.

[quote][quote]
Lady Herriman is certainly not a mage as is made clear in-game, but a Desire demon had given her blood-magelike powers, and she didn't have the help of a mage. [/quote]
She wasn't possessed by a demon. She was seduced by one,[/quote]

And was given mage-like powers by said demon, despite not being a mage, and she didn't have the help of a mage getting in contact with the demon.

[quote][quote]When a demon comes to our side, whether they were summoned by an idiotic mage, or because they were able to force their way across in an area where the veil is torn, at that point, anything and anyone is fair game. Mage, non-mage, animals, trees, dead corpses....anything.
[/quote]
But, at best, a sylvan or a corpse will try to hit you with its arms. An actual Abomination has acess to magical abilities making them that much more dangerous.

[/quote][/quote]

But the threat of possession, even for templars, is just as strong as it is for a mage, once the demon is outside the Fade.

[MisterJB]

dragonflight288 wrote...
The Llmaerryn Accords make it clear it was the Rivaini Chantry that violated the treaty and slaughtered them.

No, according to the codex, the qunari received the "northern archipelago" while the mainland belongued to humanity. Rivain, north or south, is part of the mainland and when the rivaini qunari refused to leave, they brke the treaty first.

the Riviani Chantry, who then denied attacking the Qunari who refused to leave.

According to the Codex, the attack was staged by the "Rivaini Chantry and Rivaini nationalists". According to The World of Thedas, there are more followers of the "Natural Way" than there are Andrasteans in Rivain and those are probrably the" nationalists" the codex refers to.
The Rivains, Andrasteans and otherwise, wanted qunari to abide by the treaty.

Non-mages still sundered the veil.

True but it takes many normals in order to do this. A blood mage can do it on his own.

Lady Herriman is certainly not a mage as is made clear in-game, but a Desire demon had given her blood-magelike powers, and she didn't have the help of a mage.

She wasn't possessed by a demon. She was seduced by one,

And was given mage-like powers by said demon, despite not being a mage, and she didn't have the help of a mage getting in contact with the demon.

But the threat of possession, even for templars, is just as strong as it is for a mage, once the demon is outside the Fade.

The spirits who possess corpses or trees are those unable to distinguish between living and non-living creatures. While templars and mages are, probrably, at an equal risk of being possessed by these; those who can distinguish between a human and a tree are also likely capable of distinguishing between a mage and a non-mage and will prefer the former.

[Star fury]

Beerfish wrote...
The Grey Wardens are the very worst at stupid wastes of rare talent.

On one hand, yes. The Joining doesn't look like very realistic and grim as it was intended, I mean drinking darkspawn blood? It's also an attempt to look mature and G.R.R. Martin like. But I like Grey Wardens and inclined to let it pass.
On the other hand, the Joining is not that much waste of talent because wardens recruit anybody they can, even criminals. Just like Night's Watch in ASOIAF. Duncan conscripted Daveth for example.

[MissOuJ]

leaguer of one wrote...

A demon can only possesse a non-mage with help from Mages. That mission states that fact.

Not true. Remember Kitty? And all those Sylvans in the Brecilian Forest? Even the Tranquil can become possessed. And even if they do not possess their victims and turn them into abominations, the demons can charm non-mages to do their bidding, like the desire demon who charmed that one Templar that you'll run into during the Broken Circle quest. Demons can be just as dangerous to non-mages as they are to mages.

[Scroll]

I always presumed the Harrowing would leave some kind of magical mark or trace. In the Mage origin we are told by Jowan and Lilly that only a Mage that has undergone the Harrowing can open the door to the phylactery repository area.

There must be some history to the ritual of the Harrowing. Would be interesting to know where it came from and how it was designed.

[dragonflight288]

Scr0ll wrote...

I always presumed the Harrowing would leave some kind of magical mark or trace. In the Mage origin we are told by Jowan and Lilly that only a Mage that has undergone the Harrowing can open the door to the phylactery repository area.

There must be some history to the ritual of the Harrowing. Would be interesting to know where it came from and how it was designed.

Well, the Harrowing takes a great deal of lyrium to send a mage into the Fade to confront a demon, and the OP said showed that the templars only put promising and skilled apprentices through the Harrowing. Those who are believed to be weak, lack talent, or are considered dangerous are either killed or or made tranquil.

It could be that the lyrium itself leaves a mark on the mage in question.

[dragonflight288]

MisterJB wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...
The Llmaerryn Accords make it clear it was the Rivaini Chantry that violated the treaty and slaughtered them.

No, according to the codex, the qunari received the "northern archipelago" while the mainland belongued to humanity. Rivain, north or south, is part of the mainland and when the rivaini qunari refused to leave, they brke the treaty first.

I never said otherwise, and you're completely ignoring the original point I made. That it's possible for non-mages to sunder the veil, which will allow demons to come through into our world. The Chantry of Rivain did this because of the slaughter of the Riviani qunari.

the Riviani Chantry, who then denied attacking the Qunari who refused to leave.

According to the Codex, the attack was staged by the "Rivaini Chantry and Rivaini nationalists". According to The World of Thedas, there are more followers of the "Natural Way" than there are Andrasteans in Rivain and those are probrably the" nationalists" the codex refers to.
The Rivains, Andrasteans and otherwise, wanted qunari to abide by the treaty.

The codex said it was violated twice, first by the Qunari Rivaini, then it was violated a second time by the Chantry of Rivain. And World of Thedas says they denied doing the attack after it happened. And it was their attack that sundered the veil.

Not mentioning the violation of the Qunari does not mean I'm defending them, since the only point I'm making here is that non-mages can sunder the veil, and it was extremists of the Chantry and nationalists of Rivain who were not mages that did so.

Non-mages still sundered the veil.

True but it takes many normals in order to do this. A blood mage can do it on his own.

If given enough study and training....or is an idiot and came back from a jaunt in the Fade as an abomination of a Desire Demon or a Pride demon, who then can sunder the veil on their own. The average mage cannot.

Lady Herriman is certainly not a mage as is made clear in-game, but a Desire demon had given her blood-magelike powers, and she didn't have the help of a mage.

She wasn't possessed by a demon. She was seduced by one,

And was given mage-like powers by said demon, despite not being a mage, and she didn't have the help of a mage getting in contact with the demon.

But the threat of possession, even for templars, is just as strong as it is for a mage, once the demon is outside the Fade.

The spirits who possess corpses or trees are those unable to distinguish between living and non-living creatures. While templars and mages are, probrably, at an equal risk of being possessed by these; those who can distinguish between a human and a tree are also likely capable of distinguishing between a mage and a non-mage and will prefer the former.

So....the more powerful demons, who simply want to see the world as we see it. Like the desire demon who ensared the templar in broken circle by playing on his longing for a family, or the templars taken over by desire demons in Kirkwallduring the Right of Annulment....

Anger, Hunger, and weaker demons will possess whatever, sloth, desire or pride will be a bit more picky...

Exactly how does this take away from my original point seeing as there are plenty of examples when the demons are running around of the non-mages getting possessed despite more powerful demons tendency to be a little more picky? (Sophia Dryden, that templar in Broken Circle, the templars in Kirkwall during the Right of Annulment, etc...)

Modifié par dragonflight288, 23 août 2013 - 08:05 .