99 réponses à ce sujet

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

MORE SCREEN SHOTS FURTHER DOWN THIS POST

I like to be able to see an idea of how many HPs remain on a creature during a combat (above their heads) and therefore like the HP bar that comes with many RPGs. This is currently lacking in NWN2, but for my module, The Scroll, I intend to have an option where they can be switched on for combated creatures.

Here is an example of the thing I am talking about. Note, this is just an example. I do not intend to have HP Bars on top of creatures that are not in combat. And as I say, this will be an option for the player to turn on or off.



Also, I would like to know from those interested:-

1) It will be a percentage bar: How many graduations would you prefer in steps? (Currently 10, but 20?)
2) It currently only shows HP, but I could make the bar change colour to show poison or other effect in place?
3) Bar size? Too big, too small?

Anything other comment?

Thanks,
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 18 octobre 2013 - 10:16 .

[Arkalezth]

I think I'd have to play a bit the game like that to judge how much I love/loathe it, but it's an interesting idea.

1) I think 10 are enough. Actually, I thought you were going to use the standard 5 graduations (intact, slightly injured, injured, badly injured, near death). Would you still see those if you highlight the enemy?

2) That'd be cool, like green for poison, etc.

3) Bigger may be too big. I would like to see how it looks when the PC is surrounded by enemies, and if the bars from different enemies overlap with each other.

[Tchos]

Yes, I want this. I would make it narrower than pictured, but otherwise that's the way I'd have it. I think the more gradation steps, the better. Poison indication would be a nice bonus, but I wouldn't miss its absence, as seldom as I use poisons.

[Lance Botelle]

Arkalezth wrote...

I think I'd have to play a bit the game like that to judge how much I love/loathe it, but it's an interesting idea.

1) I think 10 are enough. Actually, I thought you were going to use the standard 5 graduations (intact, slightly injured, injured, badly injured, near death). Would you still see those if you highlight the enemy?

2) That'd be cool, like green for poison, etc.

3) Bigger may be too big. I would like to see how it looks when the PC is surrounded by enemies, and if the bars from different enemies overlap with each other.

Hi Arkalezth,

Having the option to turn it off in the game (as I will set it up) will help if it gets too in the way. Answering your comments:-

1) As you say, ten steps appears to be good to me. And YES, you still get to see the normal graduations when highlighting. Also, in my module, you also get an indication of their challenge in colour and word format attached to their name. (I'll try to include a couple more screenshots when I have all the code in place. Most is done now.)

2) I am still debating this point. It's "easy" enough to do, but I am wondering if it would be too much info (meta game info).

3) The size appears about right at the moment, although I have not tested it much yet. It needs to be about this size, as it (obviously) gets smaller the further away you are from the creature. (As I say above, I'll try to include some more screenshots with more enemies soon.)

Tchos wrote...

Yes, I want this. I would make it narrower than pictured, but otherwise that's the way I'd have it. I think the more gradation steps, the better. Poison indication would be a nice bonus, but I wouldn't miss its absence, as seldom as I use poisons.

Hi Tchos,

See my replies to Arkalezth above too.

SIZE: I may make the image slightly smaller; it's hard to gauge at this stage. However, once the code is out there, in theory people can change the images to whatever they want, as long as they honour the naming convention (and know how to use the effects editor).

Actually, adding more graduation steps (and or colour differences) is a bit of a pain in the next as the way this works, involves adding more "images" for each graduation/colour. It's easy to do, mundane in practice.

That said, I am sure that once others have the code in hand (and see how it is done), then they can add/alter to their hearts content, and maybe I can benefit from their alterations/edits too.

Great feedback all!

I'll try to bundle a quick code package for those interested some time later if interested.

Lance.

[Arkalezth]

Lance Botelle wrote...
2) I am still debating this point. It's "easy" enough to do, but I am wondering if it would be too much info (meta game info).

I thought about that, but don't you normally get an indication (some sort of visual/sound effect) when an enemy gets poisoned? Anyway, like Tchos said, I rarely use poison or other effects that could be represented in the bar.

[Lance Botelle]

Arkalezth wrote...

Lance Botelle wrote...
2) I am still debating this point. It's "easy" enough to do, but I am wondering if it would be too much info (meta game info).

I thought about that, but don't you normally get an indication (some sort of visual/sound effect) when an enemy gets poisoned? Anyway, like Tchos said, I rarely use poison or other effects that could be represented in the bar.

Hi Arkalezth,

True ... comment noted.

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

As long as you can switch it off I can't see it being a problem having them. Personally I don't like them and when you have a lot of enemies to fight they make it all confusing.

Sometimes I play with everything switched off ( the h button ) so you can't see how anybody's getting on and it makes fights look better and adds to suspense as you never know who's going to die next.

Hi Kamal, "IFMP" (Ooops! - Sorry!)

Yes, an option is always best.

Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 22 août 2013 - 03:00 .

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

OK, some more screen shots...

Distant "H" Pressed:



Distant No "H" Pressed:



GUI On Close:



GUI Half HPs:



GUI Close Combat Shot:



Thanks,

Lance.

[kamal_]

Lance Botelle wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...
...

Hi Kamal,

I'm the other yeti! I used to have that avatar but I switched a while ago.

Modifié par kamal_, 22 août 2013 - 02:53 .

[Lance Botelle]

kamal_ wrote...

Lance Botelle wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...
...

Hi Kamal,

I'm the other yeti! I used to have that avatar but I switched a while ago.

Hi Kamal,

Sorry about that. Now corrected!

Lance.

[Dann-J]

I'd hate having those bars above every hostile creature all the time. "Goodbye immersion - I'll miss you!" I'd definitely be turning it off.

There's already a small HP bar when you right-click on a creature you're in combat with. I've always found that more than sufficient, and you can choose whether or not to view it.

[manageri]

As a lover of good, clear UIs, this is awesome to me. Consistent bars are way superior to having to tab between targets to check their HP and decide what to stab next etc. As for your questions:

1) 10 steps is probably good enough, but more precision never hurt anyone, so I guess the more the merrier. If it's a pain in the ass to add them then don't worry about it though.
2) Bar color changes are a solid idea in general, though poison is a very rare effect for the PCs to inflict, so that may not be the most practical thing. I think just having the color change as HP depletes might be most useful (I'm thinking just one color switch when below ~30%, to keep the screen from turning into a confusing rainbow).
3) Size seems ok.

[Arkalezth]

DannJ wrote...

There's already a small HP bar when you right-click on a creature you're in combat with.

That's a good point. Now that I think of it, I tend to use the keyboard to target first and then attack, rather than clicking with the mouse, so I already see the current enemy's HP all the time, which would make those other bars redundant in my case (except for multiple enemies, but I usually focus on one at a time).

Then again, there's nothing wrong with having the option. Just saying that, for me and my playstyle, those bars may not really add much.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 23 août 2013 - 12:56 .

[Tchos]

I imagine that if they work similarly to my quest indicators, then it'll be a very simple option for players who don't like them to remove them from any module that uses them, so it shouldn't be a problem.

[Dann-J]

One way I could see them being useful is if they were restricted to special bosses who have a lot more than the usual number of HPs, and a bunch of immunities. I'd be locking the bar to a specific location on the screen though, rather than have it hang over the boss's head.

[seraphimsage]

DannJ wrote...

One way I could see them being useful is if they were restricted to special bosses who have a lot more than the usual number of HPs, and a bunch of immunities. I'd be locking the bar to a specific location on the screen though, rather than have it hang over the boss's head.

I concur on that one, DannJ. The only notable problem though with a
fixed hp-bar is finding a location on the screen. Given all the
numerous GUIs that are already there that is not always easy. 

I would say the only remaining places are either the top-center or
bottom-right between special-abilities/spells and the stances, and
both obscure part of your vision. If there are any others, or perhaps
even a chance for a vertical bar, it eludes me.

Modifié par seraphimsage, 23 août 2013 - 05:14 .

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

Addressing each point as I read them ...

EDIT: There is one proviso about these bars: In a MP game, they are either visible or not visible for ALL players. So, hopefully, players will be in agreement in a MP game.

DannJ wrote...

I'd hate having those bars above every hostile creature all the time. "Goodbye immersion - I'll miss you!" I'd definitely be turning it off.

There's already a small HP bar when you right-click on a creature you're in combat with. I've always found that more than sufficient, and you can choose whether or not to view it.

DANNJ: Personally, I find having the enemies condition more accessible easier to work with. That right-click option is never clear enough for me. However, it is very easily switched off, and the "option" will be off by default. I intend to have the GUI introduced as a FEAT called "Observe Condition", which can be acquired by reading a book on "Observing Your Enemy In Combat". Once the book is acquired and read (it will be accessible near enough from the start of the game), then the feat is added and the player can switch the option on (or off again) from the feat. (EVEN dynamically during combat.)

manageri wrote...

As a lover of good, clear UIs, this is awesome to me. Consistent bars are way superior to having to tab between targets to check their HP and decide what to stab next etc. <SNIP>

MANAGERI: That's how I feel bout them. I agree with you on all the points you raise. I also considered the colour switch towards the end, but opted for consistency in the end, as I would probably not notice it too much during combat. Of course, it is still possibly something I'd consider in the future, as well as any other options.

Arkalezth wrote...

That's a good point. Now that I think of it, I tend to use the keyboard to target first and then attack, rather than clicking with the mouse, so I already see the current enemy's HP all the time, which would make those other bars redundant in my case (except for multiple enemies, but I usually focus on one at a time).

Then again, there's nothing wrong with having the option. Just saying that, for me and my playstyle, those bars may not really add much.

ARKALEZTH: (Reference the right click HP bar option already available.) Personally, I don't tend to see this bar very easily/often during combat. Like you, I like to concentrate on one creature at a time, but I have found instant reference to all creatures a better way to gauge the overall situation. Anyway, as you say, there will be an option to add or remove the bars at the click of a button.

Tchos wrote...

I imagine that if they work similarly to my quest indicators, then it'll be a very simple option for players who don't like them to remove them from any module that uses them, so it shouldn't be a problem.

TCHOS: Very simple indeed. They will even be off by default, and the player has to want them to activate them. See my post to DannJ above.

DannJ wrote...

One way I could see them being useful is if they were restricted to special bosses who have a lot more than the usual number of HPs, and a bunch of immunities. I'd be locking the bar to a specific location on the screen though, rather than have it hang over the boss's head.

DANNJ: I am already considering working on that type of bar as an extension to the system. Having a "fixed" GUI bar for one creature (BOSS TYPE - that can be dragged by the player if they wish) is actually easier to implement. For me, it's a question of whether to include it as a "full addition" to the same system or as an "alternative" option. i.e. There may be some people who do not want the BOSS BAR on screen, or may want the "individual" "hover over head" type for it rather than the "big one" as it were.

seraphimsage wrote...

I concur on that one, DannJ. The only notable problem though with a fixed hp-bar is finding a location on the screen. Given all the numerous GUIs that are already there that is not always easy. 

I would say the only remaining places are either the top-center or bottom-right between special-abilities/spells and the stances, and both obscure part of your vision. If there are any others, or perhaps even a chance for a vertical bar, it eludes me.

SERAPHIMSAGE: See the post above ... A BOSS BAR can easily be designed to be dragged anywhere the player likes. However, I am still considering my options for the variations possible with the current system.

Thanks All,
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 23 août 2013 - 07:26 .

[ColorsFade]

I would welcome this. I didn't take the time to read all the posts, but I have to ask: are you making this available to other modders? Because I'd use this.

I think the fact that you can turn it off addresses everything necessary. Folks who don't like it can do away with it.

For me, where my mod is very much focused on encounters and tactics, I would love to have this. I am an old school MMO guy and I love having the bars myself.

[Arkalezth]

Isn't there some sort of "boss bar" on the Vault?

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

If the main function is just to figure out which baddies are a hit or two from death, then maybe a simpler, less 'gamey' vfx could get the job done. It could be naturalistic, like a bit of blood splatter on the creature, or iconic, like a flashing skull floating above the creature's head. Ultimately, you have to think about the kind of gameplay you feels fits best with your module, and how the hitpoint system fits into that. Sometimes you want the player to be well aware of the numbers, other times you want the abstracted HP to be more or less hidden.

[Lance Botelle]

ColorsFade wrote...

I would welcome this. I didn't take the time to read all the posts, but I have to ask: are you making this available to other modders? Because I'd use this.

I think the fact that you can turn it off addresses everything necessary. Folks who don't like it can do away with it.

For me, where my mod is very much focused on encounters and tactics, I would love to have this. I am an old school MMO guy and I love having the bars myself.

ColorsFade: I do intend to release the code soon(ish).  I just wanted to make sure I had ironed out a few minor issues, and taken some feedback. Keep an eye on this post for details .... or I may announce it with a link on my blog. (Link in Sig.)

Arkalezth wrote...

Isn't there some sort of "boss bar" on the Vault?

Arkalezth: Yes, there is a "BOSS BAR", which uses GUI code. I have looked at, and altered some of it for my own "puzzle counters" and may well include it as part of this system. As I say though, it approaches the issue a different way, and does not "attach" itself to the creatures, and is limited to the type of thing it does (one target).

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

If the main function is just to figure out which baddies are a hit or two from death, then maybe a simpler, less 'gamey' vfx could get the job done. It could be naturalistic, like a bit of blood splatter on the creature, or iconic, like a flashing skull floating above the creature's head. Ultimately, you have to think about the kind of gameplay you feels fits best with your module, and how the hitpoint system fits into that. Sometimes you want the player to be well aware of the numbers, other times you want the abstracted HP to be more or less hidden.

LotRS: I only added it because I like to see the state of the creatures as I combat them. I come from a PnP background where I liked to keep track of things. I know some people won't like it, and is why I leave it off by default. However, for those that like the feedback, it will be available as a "FREE" feat if they want it (and work for it).

Thanks for all the feedback.
Lance.

Modifié par Lance Botelle, 23 août 2013 - 04:48 .

[Lance Botelle]

Hi All,

OK, I have this working with the feat button just fine now. However, I want to carry on looking at further options that I may add, such as "BOSS BAR" variations - a further toggle that may add or remove the additional bar ... or make it the only bar (as an option) if you see what I mean.

If anybody is interested in this as a download, then please let me know, as I will only concentrate on it if I get the time now. I am currently sorting other bits out, like adding some Fog of War options ... I am making a GREY option that only partially obscures the screen for areas that are known by the PCs, but not yet explored. (I am also allowing a special feat, called FORESIGHT, which allows the FOW to be switched between BLACK, GREY and OFF.)

Anyway, I'll write more in my blog.

Thanks all.
Lance.

[manageri]

I'd certainly be interested in testing a standalone release of this.

[Lance Botelle]

manageri wrote...

I'd certainly be interested in testing a standalone release of this.

Hi Manageri,

I'll see what I can put together over the coming days. I decided to put the "Boss Bar" option as a separate toggle button (and separate bar) that operates over and above this part of the system, and so will probably release this as a standalone creature bar option.

If you have not heard anything, just drop another comment to remind me. It's not that I have forgotten, but that I am working on other stuff at the moment and so need to find the time to put it into a "package" that I feel comfortable with ... and that will take a little time.

Many Thanks,
Lance.

[Eguintir Eligard]

Useful and superior