186 réponses à ce sujet

[cindercatz]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Find bad guy. Kill bad guy. Be a big god damn hero.

And if you tease me with blue babies, I better live to have them.

cindercatz wrote...

I honestly don't even care if there is a last boss fight.

For DA:O, the entire battle of Denerim up to the Archdemon was just me typing killallhostiles.

Thank goodness for being on PC.

 That's why I'm in favor of having story mode or skip combat options if you're not into that aspect of a game.

And I agree. I want my blue babies.

[riccaborto]

THIS is the perfect ending:

[werewoof]

i actually sort of liked da2's ending from a story standpoint even if origins had more closure. i thought it was interesting that in some respects hawke fails. they can't stop anders from blowing up the chantry, can't stop orsino from his breakdown, you don't just get to be the big mega godmod hero that stops all the bad things and saves the day, you kind of lose a bit. a lot of people rly hated that i guess but i honestly liked it as a narrative, thought it made for a more interesting story.

so, i dunno. i want to see a good ending but that doesnt mean i want an ending where you win everything if you make the right choices throughout the game.

also: i kind of like the boss fights so far, theyre generally pretty interesting and thats what matters to me i guess??? theyre drawn out and interesting. i'd rather run through a fight thats time consuming but really interesting (the creepy statues and meredith losing her marbles for instance) than have to restart a fight thats just plain difficult 600 times. but then again im actually a horrible gamer and combat has never been my strong point.

Modifié par tiktac, 22 août 2013 - 04:12 .

[Taleroth]

tiktac wrote...

i actually sort of liked da2's ending from a story standpoint even if origins had more closure. i thought it was interesting that in some respects hawke fails. they can't stop anders from blowing up the chantry, can't stop orsino from his breakdown, you don't just get to be the big mega godmod hero that stops all the bad things and saves the day, you kind of lose a bit. a lot of people rly hated that i guess but i honestly liked it as a narrative, thought it made for a more interesting story.

so, i dunno. i want to see a good ending but that doesnt mean i want an ending where you win everything if you make the right choices throughout the game.

It's a problem because of why Hawke fails.

Does Hawke fail because he's a human dealing with great forces? Does Hawke fail because of his tragic flaw?

No, Hawke fails because everyone around him is an idiot. Work against Meredith every step of the way, protect mages, tell her to go stuff it? Well too bad, the plot won't progress until you do some of her bidding. And now, because of that, the people doing everything you've stood for the entire game all hate you. And the one moment of clarity where someone realizes just how stupid the entire thing is, that is the same moment where the rest of them turn out to be crazy.

Then that's repeated again for Orsino and Meredith. Help the mages? Orsino immediately declares the entire thing is hopeless and his one desperate attempt to save the mages is to start killing his own people. If Hawke weren't a superhero that should have been game over. A hopeless situation made worse when your own side turns on you.

The problem with DA2's ending is that the characters aren't acting with motivation. They're acting with crazy spontaneous needs to turn into boss fights.

[werewoof]

Taleroth wrote...

tiktac wrote...

i actually sort of liked da2's ending from a story standpoint even if origins had more closure. i thought it was interesting that in some respects hawke fails. they can't stop anders from blowing up the chantry, can't stop orsino from his breakdown, you don't just get to be the big mega godmod hero that stops all the bad things and saves the day, you kind of lose a bit. a lot of people rly hated that i guess but i honestly liked it as a narrative, thought it made for a more interesting story.

so, i dunno. i want to see a good ending but that doesnt mean i want an ending where you win everything if you make the right choices throughout the game.

It's a problem because of why Hawke fails.

Does Hawke fail because he's a human dealing with great forces? Does Hawke fail because of his tragic flaw?

No, Hawke fails because everyone around him is an idiot. Work against Meredith every step of the way, protect mages, tell her to go stuff it? Well too bad, the plot won't progress until you do some of her bidding. And now, because of that, the people doing everything you've stood for the entire game all hate you. And the one moment of clarity where someone realizes just how stupid the entire thing is, that is the same moment where the rest of them turn out to be crazy.

Then that's repeated again for Orsino and Meredith. Help the mages? Orsino immediately declares the entire thing is hopeless and his one desperate attempt to save the mages is to start killing his own people. If Hawke weren't a superhero that should have been game over. A hopeless situation made worse when your own side turns on you.

The problem with DA2's ending is that the characters aren't acting with motivation. They're acting with crazy spontaneous needs to turn into boss fights.

i dunno, i thought it was kind of valid that hawke fails because you dont have control over your companions. i wont get into whether or not what anders did was justifiable or whatever but i did like that you had no control over what he did because he's his own character doing his own thing and if you dont like it, tough ******. 

the idea of doing meredith's bidding was a bit shoved at you but it makes sense given the power she has in the city. and orsino caught the idiot ball a bit but it was hinted at earlier on with All That Remains, just not expanded on enough. i kind of chalk both of those up to things that would have made more sense if bioware had had time to actually...finish making the game. so no, i disagree, i think they had motivations, i just wish they'd been expanded on more. which is what im hoping this extra year of dev time will do for da:i.

basically i dont think it was perfect and i want a better ending for this next game, but compared to the usual "pick all the right options and the game ends happy and you win" thing, it was at least a more interesting narrative. 

[Taleroth]

tiktac wrote...

i dunno, i thought it was kind of valid that hawke fails because you dont have control over your companions. i wont get into whether or not what anders did was justifiable or whatever but i did like that you had no control over what he did because he's his own character doing his own thing and if you dont like it, tough ******. 

I'm not even talking about Anders. I'm talking about the rebellion led by Thrask that attacks you just because the game needed an excuse for more combat.

No, they did not have motivations. Orsino being a moron isn't what All That Remains hinted at.
And Meredith being crazy because of red lyrium isn't a motivation, either.

Modifié par Taleroth, 22 août 2013 - 04:56 .

[Deverz]

If they haven't learned anything from the whole ME3 debacle I'll be shocked.

Just don't end it with some twist ending pseudo-intellectual nonsense (ME3) or cut the ending in half (DA2). Most importantly: provide closure, and there won't be any problems from me. Just take your time and don't rush it.

Too many rushed endings from Bioware lately.

[Clertar]

I liked the DA2 ending. There was supposed to be an expansion afterwards, which would have picked up there, and we'd have played the seed of what is now DAI with Hawke and (maybe) our original companions, which would have been cool for me.

As it is now, it's not bad either: there's the mystery of what happened to Hawke and Co., and now in DAI we'll have THE Varric as one of our companions, and also Cassandra (who spent some time researching Hawke's doings). Plus, it's been hinted that we'll reconnect with both Hawke's and the Warden's fates... so where's the problem? We're going to find out whatever Hawke's been up to.

It would have s*cked if DA2 had been a stand-alone game with no sequels or anything, but as it is we'll still find out what happened to the Hawke troupe. With these conditions, Hawke vanishing into some mysterious affairs after the game is a sublime ending for me.

Modifié par Clertar, 22 août 2013 - 05:05 .

[werewoof]

Taleroth wrote...

tiktac wrote...

i dunno, i thought it was kind of valid that hawke fails because you dont have control over your companions. i wont get into whether or not what anders did was justifiable or whatever but i did like that you had no control over what he did because he's his own character doing his own thing and if you dont like it, tough ******. 

I'm not even talking about Anders. I'm talking about the rebellion led by Thrask that attacks you just because the game needed an excuse for more combat.

No, they did not have motivations. Orsino being a moron isn't what All That Remains hinted at.
And Meredith being crazy because of red lyrium isn't a motivation, either.

we're talking about the ending though. and that bit might have been part of act 3 but it wasnt the ending. 

and i guess that's how you interpreted it? but i thought they both had motivations for what they did, whether or not those couldve been clearer had there been more time to expand on them farther than "and then they went crazy" we will never know. but whatever you seem pretty thoroughly convinced that you are correct in whats mostly a matter of interpretation so have fun with that. 

Modifié par tiktac, 22 août 2013 - 06:04 .

[wright1978]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

What I would really like to see? Little to no option offered at the end.

In DA:O, you killed the Archdemon. Blight ended. Sure, you had some choice about the Dark Ritual or the Ultimate Sacrifice, but, all in all, it was one solution - you took the Big Bad down. The endings were still wildly varied and ranged in consequences mainly because it reacted to your choices made throughout the game, not to one big one at the end.

That's what I'd hope to see. A few choices at the end, but no Big Choices at the end. Let the choices the player has been making all game define how the game ends and where the chips fall.

I agree that choices player has already made should define how the game ends rather than having a big showstopping make a giant decision at the very last second that is going to have huge ramifications

Also the lessons from ME3 which are so basic imo they shouldn't have needed to be learned are a) there should not be forced railroaded killing of the protaganist(choices should play into whether this happens) don't have the protaganist have to go on bended knee to the antagonist to get an ending other than a gameover screen.

[Raging Nug]

Mass effect was a trilogy. Dragon Age is not. This isn't the final dragon age game, and there will be at least two others. Can we please stop trying to use ME3 as a point of reference?

[AlanC9]

wright1978 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

What I would really like to see? Little to no option offered at the end.

In DA:O, you killed the Archdemon. Blight ended. Sure, you had some choice about the Dark Ritual or the Ultimate Sacrifice, but, all in all, it was one solution - you took the Big Bad down. The endings were still wildly varied and ranged in consequences mainly because it reacted to your choices made throughout the game, not to one big one at the end.

That's what I'd hope to see. A few choices at the end, but no Big Choices at the end. Let the choices the player has been making all game define how the game ends and where the chips fall.

I agree that choices player has already made should define how the game ends rather than having a big showstopping make a giant decision at the very last second that is going to have huge ramifications

This isn't a request for fewer choices, right? It's a request to have the choices that do exist displaced back further in the tiimeline of the game?

[Little Princess Peach]

If the ending has a good boss fight I'd be happy, I don't think I want to handle another starchild encounter or even the maker him self, stick to traditional gaming, Trying out new things is all well and good but if you can't execute it correctly it will flop.

[AlanC9]

ziloe wrote...
Personally, I'd like to think developers have learned from what went on, but with a game so big and boasting so many choices and reactivity, it's no wonder most who make this sort of game, leave it to a more generic ending. After all, you can't please everyone. Even so, ME3 and DA2 left a sour taste in my mouth after hours of enjoyment, simply in the fact that reloading and picking an alternate choice, resulted in essentially the same outcome. Colours, or the same boss as it was in DA2; there was little deviation. 

 

ME3's a pretty lousy example of this, since the three endings result in radically different situations. Might I suggest substituting The Witcher instead? Nothing Grealt devcides makes much differnece there. He can't engineer a Scoia'tael victory, for instance.

Unless we're just talking about how different the cutscenes are or some such.

[berelinde]

I'd like a more comprehensive denouement. Tie off the loose ends, that kind of thing.

[AlanC9]

Tharja wrote...

If the ending has a good boss fight I'd be happy, I don't think I want to handle another starchild encounter or even the maker him self, stick to traditional gaming, Trying out new things is all well and good but if you can't execute it correctly it will flop.

Boss fights? Ewww......

[ziloe]

AlanC9 wrote...

ziloe wrote...
Personally, I'd like to think developers have learned from what went on, but with a game so big and boasting so many choices and reactivity, it's no wonder most who make this sort of game, leave it to a more generic ending. After all, you can't please everyone. Even so, ME3 and DA2 left a sour taste in my mouth after hours of enjoyment, simply in the fact that reloading and picking an alternate choice, resulted in essentially the same outcome. Colours, or the same boss as it was in DA2; there was little deviation. 

 

ME3's a pretty lousy example of this, since the three endings result in radically different situations. Might I suggest substituting The Witcher instead? Nothing Grealt devcides makes much differnece there. He can't engineer a Scoia'tael victory, for instance.

Unless we're just talking about how different the cutscenes are or some such.

The majority of the ending choices of Witcher 2, developed over the final act. The entire section was essentially an epilogue. Witcher 1 was different in the fact that it played out very differently, if you either remained neutral or sided with either of the warring factions. ME3, however, before the free dlc, was literally just a few colour swaps. Even so, that visualization of how vastly different it could be, simply wasn't there. And we were left with little closure to our characters or their allies. It just... ended.

I understand that Bioware had a lot of pressure on them to do it right. No one cared whether it was a happy, sad or bittersweet ending. They just didn't want some experimental art piece. We've invested hours and a lot of money into the franchise, and if the ending is just leaving us sitting there going, "Uh, what the ****?" There's probably an issue. 

So yeah, varied cutscenes help a lot. If you've played them already or don't care about spoilers, check out the example endings I used in my first post. 

[wright1978]

AlanC9 wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

What I would really like to see? Little to no option offered at the end.

In DA:O, you killed the Archdemon. Blight ended. Sure, you had some choice about the Dark Ritual or the Ultimate Sacrifice, but, all in all, it was one solution - you took the Big Bad down. The endings were still wildly varied and ranged in consequences mainly because it reacted to your choices made throughout the game, not to one big one at the end.

That's what I'd hope to see. A few choices at the end, but no Big Choices at the end. Let the choices the player has been making all game define how the game ends and where the chips fall.

I agree that choices player has already made should define how the game ends rather than having a big showstopping make a giant decision at the very last second that is going to have huge ramifications

This isn't a request for fewer choices, right? It's a request to have the choices that do exist displaced back further in the tiimeline of the game?

Well yeah, technically DAO only had one ending, kill the archdemon and not sit down on the archdemon's lap with a cup of cocoa and choose how to end it. Your choices beforehand including dark ritual decided the fate of things in ending and epilogue. Hopefully as mentioned(village destruction because of choice in DAI) DAI will reflect choices too in the story itself as well as ending and epilogue.

[Mykel54]

Maria Caliban wrote...

For DA2, the entire game up to the ending was just me typing killallhostiles.

Thank goodness for being on PC.

Fixed

I also hope bioware doesn´t pull a mass effect.

Modifié par Mykel54, 22 août 2013 - 07:18 .

[ziloe]

Mykel54 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

For DA2, the entire game up to the ending was just me typing killallhostiles.

Thank goodness for being on PC.

Fixed

I also hope bioware doesn´t pull a mass effect.

Man, I should remember that if I ever bother doing going through that again, lol.

[Ieldra]

Mykel54 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

For DA2, the entire game up to the ending was just me typing killallhostiles.

Thank goodness for being on PC.

Fixed

Hehe. That's what I did in my recent DA2 games where I brought my various DAO games forward into DA2. Except it was more typing "killallhostiles" once, then proceeding with [Console Key][Arrow up][Return] for the next 400000 waves.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2013 - 07:56 .

[ziloe]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

For DA2, the entire game up to the ending was just me typing killallhostiles.

Thank goodness for being on PC.

Fixed

Hehe. That's what I did in my recent DA2 games where I brought my various DAO games forward into DA2. Except it was more typing "killallhostiles" once, then proceeding with [Console Key][Arrow up][Return] for the next 400000 waves.

Does it actually continue the scene though, right afterward? 

[Angrywolves]

ME3 will always be a point of reference for Bioware games.
I didn't like how DA2 was conceived or how it ended.
This isn't Shakespeare or a Greek tragedy.
Fans want the protagonist to win not lose.

[ziloe]

Angrywolves wrote...

ME3 will always be a point of reference for Bioware games.
I didn't like how DA2 was conceived or how it ended.
This isn't Shakespeare or a Greek tragedy.
Fans want the protagonist to win not lose.

No see, that's not it. If he should lose, it should be because I made choices that determine that fate.

Spoilers for Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, you lead a rebellion and try to bring the nations together, but in doing so, if you didn't reach certain requirements, during your becoming king, you're assassinated. 

This was a huge shock to me, but when I realized what I'd done, it was well deserved. If I made the right choices and helped people and got a good ending, that needs to be deserved. The war assets we recieved in ME3, did little to point out how bad it really was, had we failed. 

If I side with Meredith at the end of DA2, why am I fighting her? And this is where the visualization and varied acts need to be. And if it were to be something like DA:O, I'm fine with that too. Just as long as they fill the gaps along the way. We don't want to have to count on a new game, DLC or book, to find out everything that happened. If they're going to write something, let it be there already.