186 réponses à ce sujet

[ziloe]

In Exile wrote...

ziloe wrote...
Epilogue stills aside, the last section before you walk out the doors into a cheering crowd, that was great. It made you feel like a real hero. And I was still feeling that, when the stills came along.

Except for the fact that there is no crowd or cheering. But there are lots of other reasons that the ending doesn't work for me, part of it being my own issues with the typical save the status quo western fantasy plots, and part of it being the last minute shell-game that Morrigan and Suicide-by-Jumping play on you. 

Yes there was. When you walk out the door at the end of the hall, there's a flash of light to represent the sun filtering in, and then it ends with the sounds of people cheering on your appearance. 

[Taleroth]

ziloe wrote...

In Exile wrote...

ziloe wrote...
Epilogue stills aside, the last section before you walk out the doors into a cheering crowd, that was great. It made you feel like a real hero. And I was still feeling that, when the stills came along.

Except for the fact that there is no crowd or cheering. But there are lots of other reasons that the ending doesn't work for me, part of it being my own issues with the typical save the status quo western fantasy plots, and part of it being the last minute shell-game that Morrigan and Suicide-by-Jumping play on you. 

Yes there was. When you walk out the door at the end of the hall, there's a flash of light to represent the sun filtering in, and then it ends with the sounds of people cheering on your appearance. 

Unless you make the sacrifice, which seems to be what he is implying happened for him.

The totality of his commentary doesn't seem to reflect a particular distaste for epilogue slides, but a distaste for the entire plot.

Modifié par Taleroth, 27 août 2013 - 07:52 .

[ziloe]

Taleroth wrote...

ziloe wrote...

In Exile wrote...

ziloe wrote...
Epilogue stills aside, the last section before you walk out the doors into a cheering crowd, that was great. It made you feel like a real hero. And I was still feeling that, when the stills came along.

Except for the fact that there is no crowd or cheering. But there are lots of other reasons that the ending doesn't work for me, part of it being my own issues with the typical save the status quo western fantasy plots, and part of it being the last minute shell-game that Morrigan and Suicide-by-Jumping play on you. 

Yes there was. When you walk out the door at the end of the hall, there's a flash of light to represent the sun filtering in, and then it ends with the sounds of people cheering on your appearance. 

Unless you make the sacrifice, which seems to be what he is implying happened for him.

The totality of his commentary doesn't seem to reflect a particular distaste for epilogue slides, but a distaste for the entire plot.

Hm. I actually liked the Sacrifice one. I did that my first playthrough, as an elf. And I thought it was very touching, what Alistair said. Regardless, it was definitely better than what we saw for DA2. 

Admittedly, I was happy with the visual ending and had actually asked if they could do that this time. However, it would have been nice, had it been longer. 

[Wompoo]

fchopin wrote...

If the journey is not good then I never see the ending.

If the ending is bad they never see another cent from me in terms of DLC. Endings are the culmination of my journey. When they are really bad >> ME3, I just can't even be bothered to complete that journey again. Books get recycled and turned into toilet paper and movies fail at the box office... yes they are important when your product is a story based whatever.

[ziloe]

Wompoo wrote...

fchopin wrote...

If the journey is not good then I never see the ending.

If the ending is bad they never see another cent from me in terms of DLC. Endings are the culmination of my journey. When they are really bad >> ME3, I just can't even be bothered to complete that journey again. Books get recycled and turned into toilet paper and movies fail at the box office... yes they are important when your product is a story based whatever.

Damn. I'd hate to think what you'd do if you hated an e-book.

[ziloe]

Cowboy Saunter wrote...

too many promises were made, with BIG hype fueling such rewards to an end for ones own Shepard.the fanbase is part of the blame.i was quite happy with the endings even before EXE.

Personally i find that DA:I will have an decent wrap up.plus DA:O and DA2's ending where good to me.sooo that said, those who drink should get slushed when they begin the last mission/quest

Well, when someone claims all your choices will affect the game, and then all of that is dimished into three options regardless... that isn't being disappointed by hype, that's being misled. 

Modifié par ziloe, 27 août 2013 - 10:25 .

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree. As counter to logic as it may seem, I think the key to replayability is a solid, varied ending. And replayability is the number one draw for a guy like me.

I think branching content in-game is what matters (ala TW2). A varied ending is like a functional UI - the game will be a lot worse without it, but having it there doesn't make the game replayable. 

What counts as branching content? KotOR, where everything you do on one planet stays on that planet and is never seen again? (DA:O too, except for some ending slides and different toons at the Battle of Denerim) Or is KotOR non-replayable?

[ziloe]

AlanC9 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I disagree. As counter to logic as it may seem, I think the key to replayability is a solid, varied ending. And replayability is the number one draw for a guy like me.

I think branching content in-game is what matters (ala TW2). A varied ending is like a functional UI - the game will be a lot worse without it, but having it there doesn't make the game replayable. 

What counts as branching content? KotOR, where everything you do on one planet stays on that planet and is never seen again? (DA:O too, except for some ending slides and different toons at the Battle of Denerim) Or is KotOR non-replayable?

Unfortunately, I've yet to play it even though I just bought the two parts on Steam, recently.

[AlanC9]

Well, without getting spoilerrific, you can think of KotOR as ME1 without UNC worlds. The only worlds you can go to are primary mission planets which you can do in any order you see fit, and nothing that happens on one of those planets has any effect once you leave that planet, including on the endgame. (Come to think of it, ME1 is pretty lousy too, if branching content is important to you)

The endgame has LS and DS branches with a final alignment choice point before you start, but 90% of gameplay in the two branches is identical -- you get one different battle, and there are different intermediate and final cutscenes, but that's it.

[ziloe]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, without getting spoilerrific, you can think of KotOR as ME1 without UNC worlds. The only worlds you can go to are primary mission planets which you can do in any order you see fit, and nothing that happens on one of those planets has any effect once you leave that planet, including on the endgame. (Come to think of it, ME1 is pretty lousy too, if branching content is important to you)

The endgame has LS and DS branches with a final alignment choice point before you start, but 90% of gameplay in the two branches is identical -- you get one different battle, and there are different intermediate and final cutscenes, but that's it.

Hm. I was a late bloomer to both series. My friends were going on about it and I decided to give it a try. I can't recall which one I tried first though, but I enjoyed both equally. 

I think with ME it helped that at the time, my computer was in the livingroom and so my mother could hear all the dialogue choices I'd make and despite not being a gamer herself, I could hear her laughing,etc while making dinner and so on. And that was a time my mother was still a little hesitant in my pursuit of a game design career, so she got to see what was on the horizon for games in general. And for me, that was definitely a positive. 

[ziloe]

bump

[In Exile]

ziloe wrote...
Yes there was. When you walk out the door at the end of the hall, there's a flash of light to represent the sun filtering in, and then it ends with the sounds of people cheering on your appearance. 

I wasn't talking about the US - I never got the ending myself. I just didn't remember it. It didn't really leave much of an impression on me at all. 

Taleroth wrote...
The totality of his commentary doesn't seem to reflect a particular distaste for epilogue slides, but a distaste for the entire plot.

As much as I enjoyed DA:O, it was probably one of my least favourite Bioware plots, and certainly not highly rated among video game plots I've seen. But it really all comes down to the darkspawn-archdemon, and how I don't think it was handled in a satisfying way. But it's all YMMV. When I said the ending to DA:O wasn't satisfying, I wasn't trying to make an objective case, just saying how I feel. 

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...
What counts as branching content? KotOR, where everything you do on one planet stays on that planet and is never seen again? (DA:O too, except for some ending slides and different toons at the Battle of Denerim) Or is KotOR non-replayable?

I don't mind everything staying on one planet, though I wouldn't say KoTOR had a branching plot. That being said, I don't think games need to have branching plots to be replayable - they can be replayable for lots of reasons, such as the game just plain being fun. 

I just don't think varied ending epilogues make the game replayable. 

[AlanC9]

Sure. My point there was that Bio historically hasn't been very keen on branching. Their way of implementing consequences has typically been to have big off-screen consequences, but little on-screen.

[ziloe]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure. My point there was that Bio historically hasn't been very keen on branching. Their way of implementing consequences has typically been to have big off-screen consequences, but little on-screen.

It was probably more cost effective that way, though, I imagine it will be easier now that they're using a different engine altogether, with many more capabilities. 

Modifié par ziloe, 28 août 2013 - 06:19 .

[ziloe]

Things may just get more interesting, now that we know of the Keep. With all the variations we can choose from to form the quest as a whole, it would be cool to see that play out in the end as well, somehow.

[ziloe]

In Exile wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What counts as branching content? KotOR, where everything you do on one planet stays on that planet and is never seen again? (DA:O too, except for some ending slides and different toons at the Battle of Denerim) Or is KotOR non-replayable?

I don't mind everything staying on one planet, though I wouldn't say KoTOR had a branching plot. That being said, I don't think games need to have branching plots to be replayable - they can be replayable for lots of reasons, such as the game just plain being fun. 

I just don't think varied ending epilogues make the game replayable. 

I rarely play games more than once, with the exception of those that have alternate outcomes. Beyond that, the only one I replayed out of it being fun and not caring for a variant, was the recent The Last of Us. However, games like the DA series and ME, that boast alternate choices, also require more than a simple colour swap.

[Elhanan]

DAO scored high on replay vale for me; more than a score of Wardens were created and viewed in action. Not only due to the varied conclusions which were given, but the Classes could be different designs; not all wearing and wielding the same items, and using varied Talents and Spells. It is my hope DAI will have such again.

[jvaz]

Hilarystamp wrote...

I really hope there is a good end this time.......and I want a boss who is actually a challenge again. Origins had it. DA2 did not, even on hard it was so easy. I want to be biting my nail by the end of the game. Bioware make it happen.

None of the "bosses" in DAO had a challenge to them. They were all HP soaks, kiting, and focus fire.  Granted DA2 did the same thing with the exception of the ARW (only when you fight it for the first time though).  There is no mental challenge or real innate strategy (i.e. weak points that need to be destroyed first, etc) to the bosses in either game. 

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sure. My point there was that Bio historically hasn't been very keen on branching. Their way of implementing consequences has typically been to have big off-screen consequences, but little on-screen.

Oh, I totally agree with you on that. I just think that there are better ways of doing it, and while Bioware games are replayable for me, it's not their choice/consequence set up that makes them replayable. 

ziloe wrote...
I rarely play games more than once, with the exception of those that have alternate outcomes. Beyond that, the only one I replayed out of it being fun and not caring for a variant, was the recent The Last of Us. However, games like the DA series and ME, that boast alternate choices, also require more than a simple colour swap.

No, I often replay games that I think are fun. 

[Fast Jimmy]

In Exile wrote...

ziloe wrote...
I rarely play games more than once, with the exception of those that have alternate outcomes. Beyond that, the only one I replayed out of it being fun and not caring for a variant, was the recent The Last of Us. However, games like the DA series and ME, that boast alternate choices, also require more than a simple colour swap.

No, I often replay games that I think are fun. 

Play games for fun? 

...WHAT?

[AngryFrozenWater]

I am not a fan of the epilogue and don't want to see what happened through slides or cut scenes. Instead I want to experience what happened in-game - not as a spectator, but as the interactive player playing a role in that story. If DA2 did something right then it wasn't the ending, but the way Varric told the stories which led to the ending. So you not only see Varric tell his story, you'll become part of it. But, because the actual ending fell apart, the game crushes down there.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 29 août 2013 - 06:58 .

[ziloe]

In Exile wrote...

ziloe wrote...
I rarely play games more than once, with the exception of those that have alternate outcomes. Beyond that, the only one I replayed out of it being fun and not caring for a variant, was the recent The Last of Us. However, games like the DA series and ME, that boast alternate choices, also require more than a simple colour swap.

No, I often replay games that I think are fun. 

Yes, that's why I play them too. But that doesn't mean I find they have replay value. I have other games that may be waiting to be played, and ones I go back to while waiting for others.

[In Exile]

ziloe wrote...
Yes, that's why I play them too. But that doesn't mean I find they have replay value. I have other games that may be waiting to be played, and ones I go back to while waiting for others.

I guess to me "replay value" is just a measure of whether or not it's worth it to replay the game. Variance in plot might be a reason, but I haven't replayed every game that had branching plots. For example, if the gameplay sucks or is tedius, I might not stomach playing it. I tried TOR, but TOR is way to tedius to play (IMO). 

[ziloe]

In Exile wrote...

ziloe wrote...
Yes, that's why I play them too. But that doesn't mean I find they have replay value. I have other games that may be waiting to be played, and ones I go back to while waiting for others.

I guess to me "replay value" is just a measure of whether or not it's worth it to replay the game. Variance in plot might be a reason, but I haven't replayed every game that had branching plots. For example, if the gameplay sucks or is tedius, I might not stomach playing it. I tried TOR, but TOR is way to tedius to play (IMO). 

I won't deny that I'm not really one for fetch quests. Outside of bigger side quests, it took a lot of effort to replay through DA:O the first few times. But the ending always satisfied me, unlike a lot of games I've played in the past.