348 réponses à ce sujet

[andar91]

I don't necessarily think of Blood Magic as evil in and of itself, but it does open up a mage to great temptation (mind control especially) and danger (demons pay more attention to blood mages) of possession. Blood Magic can do evil things other magic cannot such as strip free will from somebody. Could that be used for good? Theoretically, I suppose you could mind control an abusive spouse and stop the abuse...but mind control is an extremely slippery slope. Where do you cross that line? It's difficult to say.

At its core, blood magic is just another fuel. It's like using electricity to power your car instead of gasoline (albeit with much more implications than that sort of thing). So you could use blood magic to cast normal spells, extending the range of magic one can cast. This, too, can lead to abuse though, as seen in Tevinter where the magisters regularly sacrifice slaves to power their spells. One does not HAVE to do this, however. I think it's more cultural than inherent in the magic.

In summary, I do not think blood magic is evil, but it can sure be a powerful tool for evil people or a temptation to evil. Look at Merill. She used magic with the best of INTENTIONS--I would not call her evil. If I were a mage in Thedas, I would recognize that blood magic is a powerful tool, but I wouldn't screw with it. It's not worth the risk.

[Ieldra]

cjones91 wrote...
One thing I hear people say is blood magic is evil because it can control minds or summon demons,however would'nt be fair to say that blood magic isn't evil just the person who uses it for bad things?Blood magic can be used for good and I don't really see the point in demonizing something that is a tool at best.

Blood magic isn't evil, just like a gun isn't evil. Both pose some risk to the user and their environment, especially if they aren't emotionally stable, but at its most basic blood magic is just another way for powering magic.

Only actions are ever evil, never tools.

[Ianamus]

The problem is that we rarely see blood magic do anything good, and whenever it does there is always a price or consequence that completely negates the good it did.

Modifié par EJ107, 22 août 2013 - 05:39 .

[cjones91]

Jorina Leto wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

The chantry says blood magic is evil. This means blood magic is evil.

The Chantry says many things....most of them are for their own benefit.

The point is: "BLOOD MAGIC IS EVIL!" is a central dogma of the andrastian faith.

To oppose this dogma means to oppose the chantry as a whole.

Sorry but I distrust all groups who use dogma for their own ends,most people would let themselves be sheep but the Chantry has it's own evil history so what they say does not matter.

[cjones91]

Ieldra2 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
One thing I hear people say is blood magic is evil because it can control minds or summon demons,however would'nt be fair to say that blood magic isn't evil just the person who uses it for bad things?Blood magic can be used for good and I don't really see the point in demonizing something that is a tool at best.

Blood magic isn't evil, just like a gun isn't evil. Both pose some risk to the user and their environment, especially if they aren't emotionally stable, but at its most basic blood magic is just another way for powering magic.

Only actions are ever evil, never tools.

Exactly,blood magic by itself is just a way for mages to use magic without Lyrium, so to say it's completely evil is thinking only in black and white.

[Navasha]

cjones91 wrote...

How so?If something can be used for good then who cares if it's seen as evil?

So if you could cure someone with cancer by killing another person, that would be okay to you?  

Reminds me of the Babylon 5 episode where the last survivor of an alien race develops a way to make people immortal.    The main ingredient of course must be harvested from another living sentient being.   Her entire purpose of creating it was to sow misery and chaos among the races that wiped hers out.    

Nope, not all research is worthy if you have to sacrifice humanity to achieve it.   The ends DO NOT justify the means to many people.

[cjones91]

Navasha wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

How so?If something can be used for good then who cares if it's seen as evil?

So if you could cure someone with cancer by killing another person, that would be okay to you?  

Reminds me of the Babylon 5 episode where the last survivor of an alien race develops a way to make people immortal.    The main ingredient of course must be harvested from another living sentient being.   Her entire purpose of creating it was to sow misery and chaos among the races that wiped hers out.    

Nope, not all research is worthy if you have to sacrifice humanity to achieve it.   The ends DO NOT justify the means to many people.

Many people sign up to used for drug experiments that can help cure illnesses,they know the drugs may cause deadly side effects but those people do it so others can benefit from the research.

[MisterJB]

Blood magic is a tool. But the nature of the tool in question is to cause pain and suffering. It is clearly stated in World of Thedas that the more pain caused and the more blood spilled, the more powerful the spell will be. Therefore, the very nature of blood magic demands that pain be caused. Blood is not just a component like any other; it's the pain caused by the spilling of the blood that powers the magic. If blood magic was a person, it would be a sadist.

Therefore, we could say that the nature of the tool in question is actually quite evil despite the fact it can be used for good.

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 août 2013 - 05:54 .

[ScarMK]

cjones91 wrote...

Navasha wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

How so?If something can be used for good then who cares if it's seen as evil?

So if you could cure someone with cancer by killing another person, that would be okay to you?  

Reminds me of the Babylon 5 episode where the last survivor of an alien race develops a way to make people immortal.    The main ingredient of course must be harvested from another living sentient being.   Her entire purpose of creating it was to sow misery and chaos among the races that wiped hers out.    

Nope, not all research is worthy if you have to sacrifice humanity to achieve it.   The ends DO NOT justify the means to many people.

Many people sign up to used for drug experiments that can help cure illnesses,they know the drugs may cause deadly side effects but those people do it so others can benefit from the research.

That's the point.  They willingly sign up.  I don't think a blood mage will ask before they steal someone's life energy, even less chance of them actually consenting to such an action.

[hoorayforicecream]

cjones91 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
One thing I hear people say is blood magic is evil because it can control minds or summon demons,however would'nt be fair to say that blood magic isn't evil just the person who uses it for bad things?Blood magic can be used for good and I don't really see the point in demonizing something that is a tool at best.

Blood magic isn't evil, just like a gun isn't evil. Both pose some risk to the user and their environment, especially if they aren't emotionally stable, but at its most basic blood magic is just another way for powering magic.

Only actions are ever evil, never tools.

Exactly,blood magic by itself is just a way for mages to use magic without Lyrium, so to say it's completely evil is thinking only in black and white.

I'm sure that you can cite many examples in the lore of people using blood magic for good.

[anzurose]

The way I always saw it, Blood Magic is using either self-harm, or harming others to perform more potent magic.

So... I'd say yes, I guess? You could make an argument that self-harm isn't hurting anyone but yourself, and if that's in the pursuit of the greater good then it's okay. But, I would argue in rebuttal that self-harm in itself isn't really a good thing to practice.

[Navasha]

cjones91 wrote...

Many people sign up to used for drug experiments that can help cure illnesses,they know the drugs may cause deadly side effects but those people do it so others can benefit from the research.

I think the problem is that everyone has a different definition of what "good" entails.   I don't want to make this an ME3 thread, but its another clear example everyone here probably knows.  

Mordin thought everything he was doing with the Genophage was "good".   The term "for the greater good" is usually used as a rationalization for doing something terrible.   

A blood mage might be doing something he believes to be "good".   I mean sacrificing the blood of that one innocent old man, who has already lived, sitting on the street to save an orphanage full of children might be deemed a "good" act in their mind.    Others would whole-heartedly disagree on that point.  

[Wulfram]

MisterJB wrote...

Blood magic is a tool. But the nature of the tool in question is to cause pain and suffering. It is clearly stated in World of Thedas that the more pain caused and the more blood spilled, the more powerful the spell will be. Therefore, the very nature of blood magic demands that pain be caused. Blood is not just a component like any other; it's the pain caused by the spilling of the blood that powers the magic. If blood magic was a person, it would be a sadist.

Therefore, we could say that the nature of the tool in question is actually quite evil despite the fact it can be used for good.

Has that bit of info turned up before World of Thedas or can I start whinging about them evilling up Blood magic because people were too OK with it?

Though if you're stabbing and incinerating people anyway, I don't see much wrong with taking advantage of that.  Or much morally wrong with hurting yourself for a greater end, of course.

Modifié par Wulfram, 22 août 2013 - 06:05 .

[Lee80]

Most of my mage characters have been blood mages, and they aren't evil characters. They make choices that reflect their ideals of what is right and just. I agree that blood magic is more of a tool then actually being evil in itself.

However, I do understand why it will always be frowned upon in the DA universe as it's really unpleasant-and is generally tied to demons. Especially DA 2's whole stab yourself with the staff animations. :-/ That always seemed a bit too extreme to me. Not sure what they were thinking when that choice was made.

[draken-heart]

for the topic? Sure, if it is used for evil.

Merrill and the grey wardens show that the "evil" magic can be used for good, but also that some people just do not see it that way.

[mikeymoonshine]

No blood magic isn't evil but there are all kinds of prolems with it. It seems to make mages eaier tarets for deamons, It's giving one person a massive amount of power and thats generally not a good thing and it can be used to d very bad things (like controling peoples minds and harking and killing others to make you stronger).

Merril is a good example, she wasn't evil and she never really did anything evil with blood magic but she was being fooled by a demon who was evil and was manipulating her, blood maic was a tool of that manipulation.

[MisterJB]

Wulfram wrote...
Has that bit of info turned up before World of Thedas or can I start whinging about them evilling up Blood magic because people were too OK with it?

Not that I can recall no so, it's possible they're purposefully increasing the negative connotations of blood magic. The very same page (109) also specifies that practicioners of blood magic are at a greater risk of being posessed.

Modifié par MisterJB, 22 août 2013 - 06:26 .

[Ieldra]

Wulfram wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Blood magic is a tool. But the nature of the tool in question is to cause pain and suffering. It is clearly stated in World of Thedas that the more pain caused and the more blood spilled, the more powerful the spell will be. Therefore, the very nature of blood magic demands that pain be caused. Blood is not just a component like any other; it's the pain caused by the spilling of the blood that powers the magic. If blood magic was a person, it would be a sadist.

Therefore, we could say that the nature of the tool in question is actually quite evil despite the fact it can be used for good.

Has that bit of info turned up before World of Thedas or can I start whinging about them evilling up Blood magic because people were too OK with it?

You can start, and I'll chime in. No, that particular piece of info didn't exist before WoT, and "evilling up blood magic" is exactly how this comes across to me.

Though if you're stabbing and incinerating people anyway, I don't see much wrong with taking advantage of that.  Or much morally wrong with hurting yourself for a greater end, of course.

Also this...

[Jackums]

Evil is a point of view.

[Ianamus]

Wulfram wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Blood magic is a tool. But the nature of the tool in question is to cause pain and suffering. It is clearly stated in World of Thedas that the more pain caused and the more blood spilled, the more powerful the spell will be. Therefore, the very nature of blood magic demands that pain be caused. Blood is not just a component like any other; it's the pain caused by the spilling of the blood that powers the magic. If blood magic was a person, it would be a sadist.

Therefore, we could say that the nature of the tool in question is actually quite evil despite the fact it can be used for good.

Has that bit of info turned up before World of Thedas or can I start whinging about them evilling up Blood magic because people were too OK with it?

Well, blood magic always seems to involve directly injuring yourself or another, so it was implied. Otherwise mages would just carry around a bucket of animal blood for use in blood magic spells. 

Modifié par EJ107, 22 août 2013 - 06:36 .

[Zeta42]

Blood magic itself isn't evil; it allows you to perform magical rituals which require lots of power. The means of getting blood can be evil, and that's about it. Risking to become a host for a demon doesn't count as evil, it's just dangerous.

[Angrywolves]

I consider blood magic evil by definition .
As far as evil just being a point of view history would seem to prove o it's more than that.

[thats1evildude]

JackumsD wrote...

Evil is a point of view.

It's funny how the people who always espouse that view in fiction always turn out to be villains.

"Son, labels like 'good' and 'evil' are just words. Words with many possible capitalizations. They're outdated concepts that do nothing but cause conflict. What I'm trying to do here is move beyond those ideas into a world where no one has any reason to fight each other. But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others."

Modifié par thats1evildude, 22 août 2013 - 06:46 .

[Steelcan]

I see nothing wrong with blood magic itself.