348 réponses à ce sujet

[draken-heart]

leaguer of one wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

for the topic? Sure, if it is used for evil.

Merrill and the grey wardens show that the "evil" magic can be used for good, but also that some people just do not see it that way.

Merril's actions were selfish,made her a pariah to her own clan and ultimately got someone killed.The Wardens at best are morally dubious.

Ah the ol' "It's not us it's them.":whistle:

Merrill's actions were the cause of a demon using her to get to her keeper/mentor/mother figure. The wardens do anything to protect the populace from the darkspawn. Remeber that before the wardens were created, life was almost extinguished.

The only "evil" use of blood magic is Tevinter, and they are evil the core even without it.

No, the demon was try to get free, not get to the keeper.

Itused Merrill because it knew that Marethari would try to protect her. IT wanted ot get free and used Merrill to get to the more powerful mage to get free.

Merrill's use of blood magic to help her fellow Dalish=/=evil. just blind to the reason things happen.

[LadyRaena13]

Both Jowan and Merrill say that blood is like lyrium it's a power source. However, it was my belief to learn magic you had to consort with demons first, therefore making it evil.

[leaguer of one]

draken-heart wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

for the topic? Sure, if it is used for evil.

Merrill and the grey wardens show that the "evil" magic can be used for good, but also that some people just do not see it that way.

Merril's actions were selfish,made her a pariah to her own clan and ultimately got someone killed.The Wardens at best are morally dubious.

Ah the ol' "It's not us it's them.":whistle:

Merrill's actions were the cause of a demon using her to get to her keeper/mentor/mother figure. The wardens do anything to protect the populace from the darkspawn. Remeber that before the wardens were created, life was almost extinguished.

The only "evil" use of blood magic is Tevinter, and they are evil the core even without it.

No, the demon was try to get free, not get to the keeper.

Itused Merrill because it knew that Marethari would try to protect her. IT wanted ot get free and used Merrill to get to the more powerful mage to get free.

Merrill's use of blood magic to help her fellow Dalish=/=evil. just blind to the reason things happen.

It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 août 2013 - 07:53 .

[Pzykozis]

Filament wrote...

Pzykozis wrote...

I wouldn't say Blood magic goes either way, the fact that it's used more to commit 'evil' than it is to do 'good' just speaks in general of the human/elf condition rather than anything about blood magic itself.

I don't see how these can really be separated. Blood magic doesn't really exist in a way that is relevant outside of the human/elf condition. A tool without a user is just a hunk of matter. (well, not "matter" this case, but that's not the point)

But because the human condition is as such, it seems fairly reasonable to ban it from general use with possible dispensations for extraordinary circumstances or pardoning in such circumstances after the fact where its use was deemed justified. Not that there's a snowball's chance in hell of a fair trial for a blood mage, unless it's something the inquisitor can take charge of and be uncharacteristically progressive about (relative to Thedas). Beyond that, the discussion of what "evil" really means does not serve much practical purpose. Is mustard gas evil? Whatever. Don't use it.

So, the conclusion to draw? Living things are capable of evil and capable of using tools for evil, practically yes it makes little sense or is essentially pointless to classify a tool as inherently moral or immoral, though that does kind of ignore the point of this thread.

Practically blood magic's main problem is its potency it can be used to save lives and it can be used to end or control them en masse with very little in the way of counters or controls, that's why it needs to be controlled or whatever rather than whether or not it has moral grounds.

[draken-heart]

LadyRaena13 wrote...

Both Jowan and Merrill say that blood is like lyrium it's a power source. However, it was my belief to learn magic you had to consort with demons first, therefore making it evil.

it's "evil" because it is uber-powerful. Demons have something to do with it, sure, but if it was not awesome, no one would learn it nor would the chantry forbid the circle teaching it.

[Taleroth]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Wardens are only needed to kill an archdemon to keep it from returning any man can kill darkspawn.

And killing an Archdemon is required to stop the darkspawn from overruning the world.

It also enables people to fight the darkspawn without dying from every little scratch.

LadyRaena13 wrote...

it was my belief to learn magic you had to consort with demons first, therefore making it evil.

It seems a faulty assumption to me.

If just about any mage can deal with a demon without getting possessed, then the harrowing is kind of pointless.

Modifié par Taleroth, 22 août 2013 - 07:53 .

[leaguer of one]

LadyRaena13 wrote...

Both Jowan and Merrill say that blood is like lyrium it's a power source. However, it was my belief to learn magic you had to consort with demons first, therefore making it evil.

I would not call demons in DAO evil.  More like carnivores. Spirits are more like hervibora. Both are dangerous

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Any use for blood magic that could be labeled as "good" could be done using the other schools of magic or with lyrium, the fact that blood magic uses suffering and pain to empower itself should indicate it isn't the happiest of magical schools and when it's only unique wide-spread purposes are controlling minds and raising the dead, I see why it's outlawed.

MisterJB wrote...

Blood magic is a tool. But the nature of the tool in question is to cause pain and suffering. It is clearly stated in World of Thedas that the more pain caused and the more blood spilled, the more powerful the spell will be. Therefore, the very nature of blood magic demands that pain be caused. Blood is not just a component like any other; it's the pain caused by the spilling of the blood that powers the magic. If blood magic was a person, it would be a sadist.

Therefore, we could say that the nature of the tool in question is actually quite evil despite the fact it can be used for good.

thats1evildude wrote...

Blood magic is not inherently evil, but it does lend itself to evil purposes.

Virtually every great evil in the setting ties back to blood magic - the fall of Arlathan, the invasion of the Golden City, the trapped souls of the Blackmarsh community in the Fade, Zathrian's werewolf curse, the creation of the Harvester, etc. What good has blood magic ever done in the setting? Individually, the potential for abuse is far greater than that of regular magic, and the use of blood magic in and of itself makes one more susceptible to demonic possession.

Would we hand out live grenades to Kindergarten students on the chance that one of them might throw a grenade at a serial rapist or a terrorist? It could happen! The piles of exploded children are simply a necessary casaulty. Support my "Toys for Bombs" initiative today!

These humans know better. Reflect upon their comments.

[draken-heart]

Taleroth wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Wardens are only needed to kill an archdemon to keep it from returning any man can kill darkspawn.

And killing an Archdemon is required to stop the darkspawn from overruning the world.

It also enables people to fight the darkspawn without dying from every little scratch.

LadyRaena13 wrote...

it was my belief to learn magic you had to consort with demons first, therefore making it evil.

It seems a faulty assumption to me.

If just about any mage can deal with a demon without getting possessed, then the harrowing is kind of pointless.

Anders even mentions a mage can cut himself/herself and figure things out, so I do not understand how demons are REQUIERD to learn it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I don't think it's evil so much as the risk is usually far too great.

[Plato]

My personal belief on this is that, blood magic is a magic school. I don't believe a school of magic can be good or evil. It's all about how you wield it.
Following the idea that Blood Magic can do bad things, hence it's evil. Well fire magic can burn down a village, yet that isn't considered evil.

[Shadow Fox]

Taleroth wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

The Wardens are only needed to kill an archdemon to keep it from returning any man can kill darkspawn.

And killing an Archdemon is required to stop the darkspawn from overruning the world.

It also enables people to fight the darkspawn without dying from every little scratch.

LadyRaena13 wrote...

it was my belief to learn magic you had to consort with demons first, therefore making it evil.

It seems a faulty assumption to me.

If just about any mage can deal with a demon without getting possessed, then the harrowing is kind of pointless.

Hence morally dubious a necessary evil if you will.
Mages and Archers don't have to touch them though.

[General Malor]

cjones91 wrote...

One thing I hear people say is blood magic is evil because it can control minds or summon demons,however would'nt be fair to say that blood magic isn't evil just the person who uses it for bad things?Blood magic can be used for good and I don't really see the point in demonizing something that is a tool at best.

Blood magic can't be used for good. And not for good in the sense of "Oh Hey, my Warden/Hawke used blood magic and they saved the world/killed a Qunari..." I mean good in a sense of what it can accomplish.

It's a tool based out of Demons, used by sacrifice that has been shown over and over again in the series to be a negative. Jowan betrays you, Orsino turns into a monster, Merill messes up her whole life, Zathrian causes the suffering of hundreds throuhout the centuries, Quentin kills Hawke's mother...

I can't think of one equally good thing as the things on the list that an NPC does with blood magic.

Blood magic is evil, you trade with demons and either get posessed or go insane. Blood magic is not a tool it's more along the lines of a last ditch ploy by the weak, frightened, sadistic or moronic. Sorry, I just don't think that it's a good method of getting things done.

No judgement on players who use it, that's your story and game to enjoy. Bleed Thedas dry.

I'm just saying from what we see blood magic is only evil. It's not justifiable because it always leads to bad things, or so evidence would have us believe. Besides... why use blood when you can shoot lightning from your hands!? It's lightning! From your hands!

Modifié par General Malor, 22 août 2013 - 08:01 .

[Shadow Fox]

leaguer of one wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

for the topic? Sure, if it is used for evil.

Merrill and the grey wardens show that the "evil" magic can be used for good, but also that some people just do not see it that way.

Merril's actions were selfish,made her a pariah to her own clan and ultimately got someone killed.The Wardens at best are morally dubious.

Ah the ol' "It's not us it's them.":whistle:

Merrill's actions were the cause of a demon using her to get to her keeper/mentor/mother figure. The wardens do anything to protect the populace from the darkspawn. Remeber that before the wardens were created, life was almost extinguished.

The only "evil" use of blood magic is Tevinter, and they are evil the core even without it.

No, the demon was try to get free, not get to the keeper.

Itused Merrill because it knew that Marethari would try to protect her. IT wanted ot get free and used Merrill to get to the more powerful mage to get free.

Merrill's use of blood magic to help her fellow Dalish=/=evil. just blind to the reason things happen.

It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

And selfish too.

[draken-heart]

Billiem wrote...

My personal belief on this is that, blood magic is a magic school. I don't believe a school of magic can be good or evil. It's all about how you wield it.
Following the idea that Blood Magic can do bad things, hence it's evil. Well fire magic can burn down a village, yet that isn't considered evil.

a bow and arrow and a sword can be used to kill people as well.
Blood magic is only evil because the Chantry brainwashes people into believing it.

[leaguer of one]

x

Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 août 2013 - 08:05 .

[Urazz]

Jorina Leto wrote...

The chantry says blood magic is evil. This means blood magic is evil.

And yet the Chantry needs track their mages with phylacteries that require blood in them.  Gotta love the hypocrites in society.

Blood magic can be used for good things but by it's very nature, it tends to be more evil.

[Taleroth]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Hence morally dubious a necessary evil if you will.

What's morally dubious about being immune to a particular infection and able to save the world?

You can say the Grey Wardens are jerks, but that says nothing of the magic that empowers them. The Templars are jerks too, going around and killing kids for truancy. That's just because the world is filled with jerks.

[draken-heart]

leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.

[leaguer of one]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...



It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

And selfish too.

I would not go as far as that. She believe she is doing this for her people. Selfishness is not the issue here. Pride is.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 août 2013 - 08:06 .

[leaguer of one]

draken-heart wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.

Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?

It would of gone after ether of them.

[leaguer of one]

Urazz wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

The chantry says blood magic is evil. This means blood magic is evil.

And yet the Chantry needs track their mages with phylacteries that require blood in them.  Gotta love the hypocrites in society.

Blood magic can be used for good things but by it's very nature, it tends to be more evil.

By it's nature it's dangerouse. It does not matter if it's evil or not.

[Shadow Fox]

draken-heart wrote...

Billiem wrote...

My personal belief on this is that, blood magic is a magic school. I don't believe a school of magic can be good or evil. It's all about how you wield it.
Following the idea that Blood Magic can do bad things, hence it's evil. Well fire magic can burn down a village, yet that isn't considered evil.

a bow and arrow and a sword can be used to kill people as well.
Blood magic is only evil because the Chantry brainwashes people into believing it.

Except neither of those are inherently corrupting,as destructive,open to abuse or undetectable.

Yeah let's ignore Tevinter,much of Dragon Age 2 and the Baroness from Origins.<_<

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 22 août 2013 - 08:18 .

[draken-heart]

leaguer of one wrote...

draken-heart wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.

Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?

It would of gone after ether of them.

Just because it would have gone after them, does not mean irt wanted to use Merrill to get free.

Demons go after power naturally, and Merrill is in no way on the same level as Marethari. Plus, Marethari's actions played right into it's plans, which makes Marethari a more likely candidate for the demon's target than accepting that it just wanted free and used a pathetic elven apprentice to do so.

[Shadow Fox]

leaguer of one wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...



It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.

And selfish too.

I would not go as far as that. She believe she is doing this for her people. Selfishness is not the issue here. Pride is.

Just my belief her clan and Elders told her repeatedly it wasn't worth the risk and she disregarded them every time thinking she knew better seemed selfish to me.