That does not mean it was aim just after Marethari only. It would take Merrill if Marethari did not act.draken-heart wrote...
Just because it would have gone after them, does not mean irt wanted to use Merrill to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?draken-heart wrote...
Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
It would of gone after ether of them.
Demons go after power naturally, and Merrill is in no way on the same level as Marethari. Plus, Marethari's actions played right into it's plans, which makes Marethari a more likely candidate for the demon's target than accepting that it just wanted free and used a pathetic elven apprentice to do so.
Can Blood Magic be evil even if it's just a tool?
Débuté par
cjones91
, août 22 2013 05:05
#101
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:16
leaguer of one
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#102
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Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:16
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Not exactly ignoring it. My point, though somewhat noncommital, was that yes, for practical purposes we can consider it an immoral weapon. Considering it as just a tool is not really a meaningful conversation to have, since tools don't do anything without users with intent. This tool just happens to facilitate evil intent with more ease and versatility than most other tools.Pzykozis wrote...
So, the conclusion to draw? Living things are capable of evil and capable of using tools for evil, practically yes it makes little sense or is essentially pointless to classify a tool as inherently moral or immoral, though that does kind of ignore the point of this thread.
Practically blood magic's main problem is its potency it can be used to save lives and it can be used to end or control them en masse with very little in the way of counters or controls, that's why it needs to be controlled or whatever rather than whether or not it has moral grounds.
I did want to focus on the fact that regardless of its evilness it should be banned, lest we lose sight of that, but I do think that implies, in a certain sense, that you could say there is an certain evilness in the tool itself. If created only by its association with its users.
Too powerful, yes, is another reason we tend to ban weapons, but that's not the only factor here. It particularly excels in causing gratuitous suffering or other violating acts, which is why it seems apt to compare it to the difference between mustard gas and a machine gun.
#103
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:17
Ianamus
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draken-heart wrote...
a bow and arrow and a sword can be used to kill people as well.
Blood magic is only evil because the Chantry brainwashes people into believing it.
I don't see how the chantry "brainwashes" people into believing it. Everything they say about it is true. By this logic the government "brainwashes" us that smoking, drinking and taking illegal drugs are bad.
Besides, a bow and sword aren't powered by pain and suffering.
#104
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:17
leaguer of one
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That still not beiign selfish. If it was selffish she would of only don't it out of personal gain. It being stubborn and prideful.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Just my belief her clan and Elders told her repeatedly it wasn't worth the risk and she disregarded them every time thinking she knew better seemed selfish to me.leaguer of one wrote...
I would not go as far as that. She believe she is doing this for her people. Selfishness is not the issue here. Pride is.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
And selfish too.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
Hence why it was a pride demon Merril made the deal with.
Selfish is lust.
Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 août 2013 - 08:18 .
#105
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:18
draken-heart
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leaguer of one wrote...
That does not mean it was aim just after Marethari only. It would take Merrill if Marethari did not act.draken-heart wrote...
Just because it would have gone after them, does not mean irt wanted to use Merrill to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?draken-heart wrote...
Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
It would of gone after ether of them.
Demons go after power naturally, and Merrill is in no way on the same level as Marethari. Plus, Marethari's actions played right into it's plans, which makes Marethari a more likely candidate for the demon's target than accepting that it just wanted free and used a pathetic elven apprentice to do so.
It would HAVE taken Merrill, yes, but Marethari was likely the demon's true target though.
More power=brighter beacon.
#106
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:19
leaguer of one
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And we have proof to show if that is true.draken-heart wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
That does not mean it was aim just after Marethari only. It would take Merrill if Marethari did not act.draken-heart wrote...
Just because it would have gone after them, does not mean irt wanted to use Merrill to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?draken-heart wrote...
Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
It would of gone after ether of them.
Demons go after power naturally, and Merrill is in no way on the same level as Marethari. Plus, Marethari's actions played right into it's plans, which makes Marethari a more likely candidate for the demon's target than accepting that it just wanted free and used a pathetic elven apprentice to do so.
It would HAVE taken Merrill, yes, but Marethari was likely the demon's true target though.
More power=brighter beacon.
#107
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:24
draken-heart
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leaguer of one wrote...
And we have proof to show if that is true.draken-heart wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
That does not mean it was aim just after Marethari only. It would take Merrill if Marethari did not act.draken-heart wrote...
Just because it would have gone after them, does not mean irt wanted to use Merrill to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?draken-heart wrote...
Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
It would of gone after ether of them.
Demons go after power naturally, and Merrill is in no way on the same level as Marethari. Plus, Marethari's actions played right into it's plans, which makes Marethari a more likely candidate for the demon's target than accepting that it just wanted free and used a pathetic elven apprentice to do so.
It would HAVE taken Merrill, yes, but Marethari was likely the demon's true target though.
More power=brighter beacon.
And we have proof that Varric was a liar so DA 2 may not have actually happened.
#108
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:26
Shadow Fox
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Disregarding others' wishes is a form of selfishness to me though.leaguer of one wrote...
That still not beiign selfish. If it was selffish she would of only don't it out of personal gain. It being stubborn and prideful.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Just my belief her clan and Elders told her repeatedly it wasn't worth the risk and she disregarded them every time thinking she knew better seemed selfish to me.leaguer of one wrote...
I would not go as far as that. She believe she is doing this for her people. Selfishness is not the issue here. Pride is.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
And selfish too.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
Hence why it was a pride demon Merril made the deal with.
Selfish is lust.
#109
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:31
kinderschlager
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seeing as i use blood magic in all my mage playthroughs? i would say tyhat no, it is NOT evil, it just provides an alernative to mana. useful, not evil. it's that people use it for the wrong purposes that is why it is seen as "evil" the tevinter imperium abused blood magic and that is why modern thedas views it so negatively
#110
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:31
leaguer of one
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That does not equal to selfness.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Disregarding others' wishes is a form of selfishness to me though.leaguer of one wrote...
That still not beiign selfish. If it was selffish she would of only don't it out of personal gain. It being stubborn and prideful.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Just my belief her clan and Elders told her repeatedly it wasn't worth the risk and she disregarded them every time thinking she knew better seemed selfish to me.leaguer of one wrote...
I would not go as far as that. She believe she is doing this for her people. Selfishness is not the issue here. Pride is.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
And selfish too.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
Hence why it was a pride demon Merril made the deal with.
Selfish is lust.
#111
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:32
leaguer of one
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Except that he was made to tell the truth and we have a blown up chantry comferming the story.draken-heart wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
And we have proof to show if that is true.draken-heart wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
That does not mean it was aim just after Marethari only. It would take Merrill if Marethari did not act.draken-heart wrote...
Just because it would have gone after them, does not mean irt wanted to use Merrill to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
Nope. Why would it pick to possesse some who can restrict it even when it possesse them?draken-heart wrote...
Judging my Merrill's willful blindness, I think it is more likely that it wanted Marethari and chose Merrill for the reason of it wanting to use the more powerful mage to get free.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
It would of gone after ether of them.
Demons go after power naturally, and Merrill is in no way on the same level as Marethari. Plus, Marethari's actions played right into it's plans, which makes Marethari a more likely candidate for the demon's target than accepting that it just wanted free and used a pathetic elven apprentice to do so.
It would HAVE taken Merrill, yes, but Marethari was likely the demon's true target though.
More power=brighter beacon.
And we have proof that Varric was a liar so DA 2 may not have actually happened.
#112
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:34
draken-heart
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leaguer of one wrote...
Except that he was made to tell the truth and we have a blown up chantry comferming the story.
How do you know? HE could have exaggerated it.
Modifié par draken-heart, 22 août 2013 - 08:34 .
#113
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:36
Shadow Fox
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Inconsiderate then?leaguer of one wrote...
That does not equal to selfness.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Disregarding others' wishes is a form of selfishness to me though.leaguer of one wrote...
That still not beiign selfish. If it was selffish she would of only don't it out of personal gain. It being stubborn and prideful.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
Just my belief her clan and Elders told her repeatedly it wasn't worth the risk and she disregarded them every time thinking she knew better seemed selfish to me.leaguer of one wrote...
I would not go as far as that. She believe she is doing this for her people. Selfishness is not the issue here. Pride is.Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
And selfish too.leaguer of one wrote...
It would of possesed ether one. It goal was only to get free. And Merrill's use of blood magic is not evil...Stupid not evil.
Hence why it was a pride demon Merril made the deal with.
Selfish is lust.
#114
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:36
Sundance31us
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I got the impression from DA2 that it's (Blood Magic) link to demons is what made it evil.
#115
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:37
leaguer of one
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And Cassandra would of exaggerted the knife she threw etween his croutch more to the center.draken-heart wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
Except that he was made to tell the truth and we have a blown up chantry comferming the story.
How do you know? HE could have exaggerated it.
Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 août 2013 - 08:37 .
#116
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:38
leaguer of one
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It more to how it's used. Demon are not inheritly evil. More like carnivores.Sundance31us wrote...
I got the impression from DA2 that it's (Blood Magic) link to demons is what made it evil.
#117
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:40
draken-heart
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leaguer of one wrote...
And Cassandra would of exaggerted the knife she threw etween his croutch more to the center.draken-heart wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
Except that he was made to tell the truth and we have a blown up chantry comferming the story.
How do you know? HE could have exaggerated it.
let's just quit befor the lock hammer swings down on us.
In the end, Blood magic is magic, and it is only evil because of how powerful it is, not because a demon in involved or because the chantry says so or whatever.
Modifié par draken-heart, 22 août 2013 - 08:42 .
#118
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:43
leaguer of one
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It does not matter if it's evil or not. The fact remain that it's inheritly dangerious.draken-heart wrote...
In the end, Blood magic is magic, and it is only evil because of how powerful, it is, not because a demon in involved or because the chantry says so or whatever.
#119
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:45
DKJaigen
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Its fairly simple. Does bloodmagic alter your thoughts and perspective? if not its just a tool. If it is you may need to stay away from it.
#120
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:47
DKJaigen
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leaguer of one wrote...
It does not matter if it's evil or not. The fact remain that it's inheritly dangerious.draken-heart wrote...
In the end, Blood magic is magic, and it is only evil because of how powerful, it is, not because a demon in involved or because the chantry says so or whatever.
All magic is inheritenly dangerous. But you minimize the danger by understanding and then mastering it.
#121
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:48
leaguer of one
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But to get it, ussually you have to deal with demons that can alter your thougts and perspectives=].DKJaigen wrote...
Its fairly simple. Does bloodmagic alter your thoughts and perspective? if not its just a tool. If it is you may need to stay away from it.
#122
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:49
Shadow Fox
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It does.DKJaigen wrote...
Its fairly simple. Does bloodmagic alter your thoughts and perspective? if not its just a tool. If it is you may need to stay away from it.
#123
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:51
leaguer of one
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Nope. Magic is not inheritly dangerious. That is up to the user. No creation spells destroys or kill any one and entrophy spell may effect people but not kill them. Magic is inheritly choatic as seen in the fade, those it has to be regulated. Magic can be benifical. Blood magic on the other had is the ak-47 of magic. It is inheritly dangerious.DKJaigen wrote...
leaguer of one wrote...
It does not matter if it's evil or not. The fact remain that it's inheritly dangerious.draken-heart wrote...
In the end, Blood magic is magic, and it is only evil because of how powerful, it is, not because a demon in involved or because the chantry says so or whatever.
All magic is inheritenly dangerous. But you minimize the danger by understanding and then mastering it.
Modifié par leaguer of one, 22 août 2013 - 08:52 .
#124
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:54
draken-heart
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Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...
It can.DKJaigen wrote...
Its fairly simple. Does bloodmagic alter your thoughts and perspective? if not its just a tool. If it is you may need to stay away from it.
fixed. Can and does depends purely on the person using it.
#125
Posté 22 août 2013 - 08:54
Blooddrunk1004
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Because demon will start screwing with your mind, which is something that should be done in DA:I if Blood Magic will be available again. Blood Mage will either become demon's slave, abomination or he will learn how to control it.
However IMO the biggest reason why people consider Blood Magic evil is because the way it's executed.
The fact you cut yourself with knife and inflict pain upon yourself or your companions to cause even bigger destruction on enemy side. Which makes me wonder if Blood Mage enjoys inflicting the pain upon himself or his friends. Either way the only thing i want is DA:I to recognize you as a Blood Mage, whether it's effected by companions or NPC's. I just want it to be there. Hawke was not even recognized as an apostate (if he/she was mage, yet Bethany was), let alone Blood Mage.
However IMO the biggest reason why people consider Blood Magic evil is because the way it's executed.
The fact you cut yourself with knife and inflict pain upon yourself or your companions to cause even bigger destruction on enemy side. Which makes me wonder if Blood Mage enjoys inflicting the pain upon himself or his friends. Either way the only thing i want is DA:I to recognize you as a Blood Mage, whether it's effected by companions or NPC's. I just want it to be there. Hawke was not even recognized as an apostate (if he/she was mage, yet Bethany was), let alone Blood Mage.
