276 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

StreetMagic wrote...

grey_wind wrote...

Replaying ME3 with a Kaidan Survives import, and I'm really enjoying the way his character is implemented into the main game.
Unlike Ashley, where it just seems they spent all their time and resources redesigning her rather than giving her anything relevant to do during the game, it feels like the devs really put a lot of love into Kaidan's content. His conversations are fun, he's constantly socializing with the crew, and at times he offers interesting perspectives, all the while keeping him "normal and grounded".

ME3 Kaidan is the first time over the course of the entire trilogy BioWare's succeeded at making the "normal" guy an interesting character.

To be honest, I never stuck with an ME3 playthrough with Kaidan, except a quick run to unlock his skills. Now I'm playing a Vanguard with him as the survivor and decided to stick with it. I look forward to seeing how it pans out.

It's really a shame how Bioware treats their characters

[Omega Torsk]

My main problem with Jacob is that he seems to have an exceedingly high standard of himself.

He sealed it when he essentially told Shepard "No, Shepard. The Normandy is your true love. Only I am allowed to love and have a family. By the way, how about we spill some drinks I'm never going to buy?"

And I don't think I even need to MENTION his treatment of a romanced Femshep.

[David7204]

You know, I think some people have might have missed an important clue.

You ever notice how the most 'active' squadmates are the most popular?

Liara becomes Shadow Broker, Garrus becomes a vigilante, Tali is an admiral and leading missions in ME 2.

Jacob doesn't do anything like that at all. At look at that. Probably the least popular squadmate.

[Sir DeLoria]

David7204 wrote...

You know, I think some people have might have missed an important clue.

You ever notice how the most 'active' squadmates are the most popular?

Liara becomes Shadow Broker, Garrus becomes a vigilante, Tali is an admiral and leading missions in ME 2.

Jacob doesn't do anything like that at all. At look at that. Probably the least popular squadmate.

It's the other way around. Tali, Liara and Garrus aren't popular due to their role in the story. They're popular due to their likeable, well written, well made and well acted personalities, the fans love them. That's why they play such important roles throughout the series. Jacob is unpopular and oblivious, why waste ressources on him?

Modifié par Necanor, 23 août 2013 - 07:13 .

[LiL Reapur]

This ain't high school, who cares if he wasn't popular he was a corsair. Some type of backstory could have been introduced.

[David7204]

That just isn't true.

Personality isn't enough. Action is what defines characters more. Jacob should serve as proof. He's a perfectly nice, capable, friendly character in ME 2. There's no reason to dislike him. Yet he's immensely unpopular.

Modifié par David7204, 23 août 2013 - 07:24 .

[LiL Reapur]

He just didn't have a decent backstory and decent writing behind him but he has potential.

[David7204]

No. That's not true either.

Does Garrus have that 'decent' of a backstory? Not really. He was a cop who didn't along well with his superiors. That's really it. And yet he's an incredibly popular character.

Backstories do not make characters. In fact, I rather frown on a plot moving along too much based on what characters did or were in the past. Wheaden has a tendency to overrely on that.

Modifié par David7204, 23 août 2013 - 07:33 .

[David7204]

That is silly. If such a thing worked, then developers wouldn't bother with putting effort into characters at all. Just have a character repeat how good of buddies you are.

You may not like him, but there's no questioning Garrus' popularity.

Modifié par David7204, 23 août 2013 - 07:40 .

[Sir DeLoria]

David7204 wrote...

That just isn't true.

Personality isn't enough. Action is what defines characters more. Jacob should serve as proof. He's a perfectly nice, capable, friendly character in ME 2. There's no reason to dislike him. Yet he's immensely unpopular.

He's utterly oblivious and has few visible flaws. I don't dislike him, but I frankly couldn't care for him less. Every great character has flaws, they're what make them realistic. Tali is incompetent and extremely emotional, Garrus is a reckless vigilante, Liara is introverted and unsocial etc.

Jacob what is Jacob? He has a problem with his dad, which leads to a mediocre loyalty mission. That's it.

His cheesy combat banter doesn't help much.

[Sir DeLoria]

StreetMagic wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. That's not true either.

Does Garrus have that 'decent' of a backstory? Not really. He was a cop who didn't along well with his superiors. That's really it. And yet he's an incredibly popular character.

I think Garrus is the product of memetic programming (for lack of a better way of putting it). Call someone your best buddy enough, and some people start believing it. Yet, he says barely anything in the first two games.

I never understood why people love Garrus that much. I like Garrus a lot, but he could never be my favourite character.

[David7204]

Garrus is not reckless. Tali is not incompetent or particularly 'emotional.' Being introverted is not a flaw.

People like characters in stories for the same reason they like other people in real life. Not because of flaws. When flaws are compelling, it's because of how characters react and overcome them. Not because of the flaws themselves.

Modifié par David7204, 23 août 2013 - 07:43 .

[Sir DeLoria]

David7204 wrote...

Garrus is not reckless. Tali is not incompetent or particularly 'emotional.' Being introverted is not a flaw.

People like characters in stories for the same reason they like other people in real life. Not because of flaws. When flaws are compelling, it's because of how characters react and overcome them. Not because of the flaws themselves.

Tali is an incompetent leader and can't handle major responsibility at all. She is very emotional, especially during her loyalty mission and on Rannoch. Being emotional isn't a flaw, but Tali has a tendency to let her personal feelings distract her from the mission. This is coming from one of the biggest Tali fans around.

Garrus is absolutely reckless. He goes to Omega with his band of vigilantes and kills many dozens of mercs and criminals, not realizing the devastating consequences his actions carried on him and especially his team.

[David7204]

No. First of all, Garrus completely realized the consequences of his actions. Garrus is not stupid. He knows what combat is and knows that people die. It wasn't something he did lightly.

Secondly, criticizing characters for being 'emotional' when one of their parents is killed or when their entire race is on the brink of extinction is absurd. I've seen this countless times with Liara, and it's irritating. When is Tali's judgement compromised because of her emotions?

Thirdly, sometimes things just go wrong on missions, and that's the end of it. Tali is no savant, but that doesn't make her a particularly 'incompetent' leader. Not everyone is Shepard. That's not a flaw any more for her than it is for the other 9 squadmates on the suicide mission that get killed as leaders.

Modifié par David7204, 23 août 2013 - 08:00 .

[David7204]

The recruitment of Garrus and Wrex in ME 1 wasn't done very well. Wrex, in particular. Both of them should have been mandatory.

[LiL Reapur]

Well you guys have fun with your debate it's four in the morning and i need sleep i'll be back on later to discuss the prize.........

[David7204]

I think I would have made the player do the main missions in a mandatory order as well. Therum-Feros-Virmire-Noveria.

Modifié par David7204, 23 août 2013 - 08:12 .

[KaiserShep]

StreetMagic wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No. That's not true either.

Does Garrus have that 'decent' of a backstory? Not really. He was a cop who didn't along well with his superiors. That's really it. And yet he's an incredibly popular character.

I think Garrus is the product of memetic programming (for lack of a better way of putting it). Call someone your best buddy enough, and some people start believing it. Yet, he says barely anything in the first two games.

I think this all depends on how you approach Garrus throughout the trilogy, which is kind of the same with Wrex (though Wrex does have a lot more backstory to stand and listen to). I did all of the dialogue with him, took him on the mission to find Dr. Saleon, and actually did take him on my squad to Feros, Noveria and Ilos, which made his comment on the Citadel much more fitting. It would definitely have helped if Garrus had more to say in ME2, though.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 23 août 2013 - 08:18 .

[David7204]

What comment are you talking about?

[KaiserShep]

David7204 wrote...

What comment are you talking about?

After the Citadel coup, when you meet with Garrus to shoot bottles at the top of the Presidium, he mentions all the things they've been through since their missions on the SR-1, and he mentions those three planets.