22 réponses à ce sujet

[NocturneNight]

First off I'm only as far as Lothering (been to Brecilian Forest abit and travelled back to Lothering after getting my butt kicked :> ), so I'd ask that you try not to spoil anything.

I've been looking at my Rogue, and I'm confused what to do with him, really. Rogues have so many class talents that I doubt there'll be enough points to take them all and at the same time max out two specializations AND a weapon tree...

I see most people seem to ditch the Lockpicking-line of talents and instead rely on high CUN to open locks, but... really, my Rogue has 2 ranks in the Lockpicking-tree & 20 CUN, and he can't disarm the traps in that random encounter when you travel towards Lake Calenhad (You get ambushed by a bunch of wolves). Nor could he disarm any traps in the bandit encounter when I travelled back to Lothering. I worry I'll miss out on loot and free xp if I go down that route. I plan on skipping Evasion and Feign Death, but other than that, I'd pretty much love to take the rest of the talents. :S

So how do you build a rogue?

Also, I saw somewhere that you can buy multiple talent books from Bodahn. I'm wondering if you have to buy them at specific times or you'll lose the oppertunity?

[metatheurgist]

The tougher areas in the game are The Brecilian Forest, parts of Denerim and Orzammar. I wouldn't do those areas first - that might be why you feel a bit weak. It's been too long since I've played the game so I can't offer any advice about build specifics.

[keeneaow]

My preference for the main quests are
1] redcliffe
2] mage tower
3] brecilian forest
4] haven & dragon
5] orzammar
tho you can mix a bit, doing some things in denirim but not getting into backstreet valley etc,
go and buy lifegiver ring in orzammar, but going after jarvia is inadvisable below lv 16.
You can buy a tome from bodhan first time you enter camp, and then a 2nd next time you come,
due to the fact that his stock replenishes that single time.
There is also a tome for sale in orzammar.
I'll leave the rouge building to the rouge experts

[NocturneNight]

So by travelling away from the camp without buying the tome means I've lost one? That's really stupid...but thanks.

[keeneaow]

Yes, the first time you enter you MUST buy one, or it is forever lost, tho there will be 1 single tome left to buy next time you go

[Urshakk]

Well, what kind of rogue do you want to build? Backstab? Archery? Dual-wield?

You're on the right track for lockpicking, I only ever get the first 2 talents in Deft Hands and the rest of my bonus comes from Cunning. 2 into DH + 34 cunning can open the 60xp chests if I remember correctly. If you can't disarm the traps from the world encounters just yet, try to reload and travel without triggering them. So that you can get them at a later time when you are able to.

When you first leave Lothering and you have the Archdemon dream back at camp, that is a special instance of the party camp. As such, make sure to buy the Backpack from Bodahn and any of the skill tomes (if you can afford them) before you leave. When you return to camp later, it will be the regular instance of the party camp and his wares will be restocked, allowing you to buy another backpack or the skill books.

Modifié par Urshakk, 23 août 2013 - 05:22 .

[NocturneNight]

Well Dual-wield, preferably...although I got it into my head that that would be the same as a backstab-rogue? Hmm you're saying I'll get these encounters again? 70 CUN is supposedly enough to open every chest in the game, though I'm uncertain if it's even possible to get that high. Most people seem to recommend only 1 point in the lockpicking line and then rest into CUN, the problem I see with this is that it'll take a long time before one can actually pick everything.

I see. I have missed it then, for certain. Thanks for clearing that up guys.

[keeneaow]

Granted, i havnt done a rouge, but the difference would be in the amount of dexterity you have to allocate, if you take a look at the dual wield talents, momentum require 24 dex and DW mastery 36 dex
http://dragonage.wik...lents_(Origins)
A DW would at a bare minimum for momentum, most likely mastery too,
while a backstabber probably would want to reserve a good chunk of those points into cun,
at least one that sing a song of courage in a middle of a fight to death

Modifié par keeneaow, 23 août 2013 - 06:01 .

[Urshakk]

Subtle differences, but similar. Dual-wielding you should get at least 32 Strength, 36 Dexterity and the rest into Cunning. Rogue tree: Get the first 3 talents of the top 2 trees. Dual Wield: the top 4 talents and the first 3 on the bottom line first. I would skip the middle tree at early levels, you won't have sufficient stamina to use those abilities much. Use Momentum as soon as you can, focusing on auto attack damage.

I prefer Assassin / Duelist for specializations, for the added bonuses to Cunning, Mark of Death and the 10 attack/defense from Dueling. I also like using Stealth, so I tend to max that out as well.

I suggested 2 points into lockpicking early on because it will help you open the harder chests earlier. When your Cunning gets even higher, you could re-spec in Awakening to take a point out of Deft Hands if you desire. I don't know the magic number for that though.

I'm saying that if you got an encounter you didn't want yet, you could re-load your save to before that and travel on the map without triggering it. If you already had the encounter, you will not run into it again.

I never got my Cunning that high except towards the end of Awakening.

Modifié par Urshakk, 23 août 2013 - 06:10 .

[Blazomancer]

Try not to trigger those encounters early-on as mentioned by Urshakk.

It's not possible to max out all the rogue talents, two specializations and master a weapon style completely by level 25, even if you grab that extra tome from Bodahn; you'll be one or two ability short of that goal. But as you are aware, you don't really need everything - say, Feign Death and Evasion as you put it yourself. The trick is to decide which talents you will prioritize depending on your build and party setup. For instance, having another rogue dedicated towards utility means you free up 4 talents from the Deft Hands tree. Or may be your warden is the only rogue in the party, but by virtue of being CUNN focussed, you can ignore 1-4 of the Deft Hands talents (This of course assuming you can get past the feeling of being not able to disarm a few traps early-on).

Since I'm not sure what sort of build you are going for, and since I can't really predict at what level your warden will be by endgame, it's hard to say what abilities to pick and what to ignore. If it's any help, I'd just want to point out that I was able to learn a total of 33 talents by level 25.

Also, note that 70 CUNN is very much possible to achieve. The max I've achieved by level 25 is 102 (89+13), which can even go a bit further.

As for the talent progression, assuming you are a backstabbing sort (& that this is what you asked about when you mentioned 'how to build'), get Momentum and DW Training asap, then upto Coup de Grace. Then fill up whatever you like, may be prioritizing the DW training tree, Lethality & your primary spec. Now it'll be upto you to decide where the lockpicking-trap disarming talents (if any) are going to fit in in this sequence.

[NocturneNight]

Sounds to me like you're talking about Daggers VS Big Weapons, no? Either way, that's pretty much what I had in mind, yes. I'd prefer using large weapons, even if it means less damage in the long run. To that end, I've heard people saying it might be better to just go DW Warrior instead. Is that true?

With 2 ranks in Lockpicking I'd need 50 CUN in order to be able to pick every lock in the game. I'm not sure if that's reachable with a DW build considering I have to dump so many pts into STR. I've no idea what those numbers are for Awakening, however (and I do intend to complete Awakening too, not decided if it'll be with the same char though, depends oh how fun he'll become to play).

That could work I suppose, but when travelling to Redcliffe I've noticed I always get the same encounter with a bunch of attacking Darkspawn and loads of traps that require 2 ranks LP & 30 CUN or 3 ranks LP & 20 CUN. But since I intend to do the Broken Circle quest I might have that by the time I turn towards Redcliffe.

Anyways thanks for the info!

EDIT
Posted just before you Blazomancer.  

Modifié par NocturneNight, 23 août 2013 - 08:25 .

[NocturneNight]

Sounds to me like you're talking about Daggers VS Big Weapons, no? Either way, that's pretty much what I had in mind, yes. I'd prefer using large weapons, even if it means less damage in the long run. To that end, I've heard people saying it might be better to just go DW Warrior instead. Is that true?

With 2 ranks in Lockpicking I'd need 50 CUN in order to be able to pick every lock in the game. I'm not sure if that's reachable with a DW build considering I have to dump so many pts into STR. I've no idea what those numbers are for Awakening, however (and I do intend to complete Awakening too, not decided if it'll be with the same char though, depends oh how fun he'll become to play).

That could work I suppose, but when travelling to Redcliffe I've noticed I always get the same encounter with a bunch of attacking Darkspawn and loads of traps that require 2 ranks LP & 30 CUN or 3 ranks LP & 20 CUN. But since I intend to do the Broken Circle quest I might have that by the time I turn towards Redcliffe.

Anyways thanks for the info!

Blazomancer wrote...

Try not to trigger those encounters early-on as mentioned by Urshakk.

It's not possible to max out all the rogue talents, two specializations and master a weapon style completely by level 25, even if you grab that extra tome from Bodahn; you'll be one or two ability short of that goal. But as you are aware, you don't really need everything - say, Feign Death and Evasion as you put it yourself. The trick is to decide which talents you will prioritize depending on your build and party setup. For instance, having another rogue dedicated towards utility means you free up 4 talents from the Deft Hands tree. Or may be your warden is the only rogue in the party, but by virtue of being CUNN focussed, you can ignore 1-4 of the Deft Hands talents (This of course assuming you can get past the feeling of being not able to disarm a few traps early-on).

Since I'm not sure what sort of build you are going for, and since I can't really predict at what level your warden will be by endgame, it's hard to say what abilities to pick and what to ignore. If it's any help, I'd just want to point out that I was able to learn a total of 33 talents by level 25.

Also, note that 70 CUNN is very much possible to achieve. The max I've achieved by level 25 is 102 (89+13), which can even go a bit further.

As for the talent progression, assuming you are a backstabbing sort (& that this is what you asked about when you mentioned 'how to build'), get Momentum and DW Training asap, then upto Coup de Grace. Then fill up whatever you like, may be prioritizing the DW training tree, Lethality & your primary spec. Now it'll be upto you to decide where the lockpicking-trap disarming talents (if any) are going to fit in in this sequence.

EDIT
Posted just before you Blazomancer.  

Yes, I suspected as much. Having two rogues would've been grand indeed, though I have been planning on my Warden being the only Rogue actually. Right now, it looks like the party will be Alistair, Morrigan, Wynne & Warden. Pretty much the standard setup - I'm an old BG player and also WoW player so the mentality of Tank/DPS/Healer/Mage-is-must is etched firmly in my mind... It depends entirely on how interesting the other party members are, but seeing as I've no idea where I will meet them and when, I think it's probably best to let the Warden handle the lockpicking.

I'm only counting on getting to ~20, 21, myself. I've no DLC and I've no intention of getting any, either. Do you think it will be possible to reach 70+ CUN with a STR-build? 

I'd love to be able to master the DW tree. Some of the stuff in the middle line looks fun, but maybe I'll do a temporary respecc just to try it out eventually. Is Coup de Grace and Combat Movement really that good? I've found I don't have much trouble positioning my Rogue for backstabs normally honestly. There is the extra crit too, but honestly, do a Rogue really need crit? I mean backstab does essentially the same thing.

Sigh, doublepost! Sorry.

Modifié par NocturneNight, 23 août 2013 - 08:43 .

[Urshakk]

That's up to you, there are advantages to each class. As a Rogue, you can open chests, backstab, stealth. Warrior gets different class talents, heavier armor, add more into Strength, more health. You will have to keep a Rogue companion with you though to open things. Personally, I dislike the idea of having a companion solely to open locks.

70+ Cunning is indeed very obtainable, I like to add into Willpower and Constitution though for extra health and stamina. I realize this is not necessary, and is totally up to you.

I know the wiki says 2 Deft Hands would mean you need 50 Cunning, but I open the 60xp chests and doors with 2 points and 34 or 38 Cunning (Now I can't remember which, it's been a little while). That's the hardest stuff to open in the game.

Edit: Combat Movement widens the angle for backstabbing. If you want to see for yourself gain a level, save, go into combat and look at the angle. It will be the small black bar on the red circle ring underneath them. Reload, add into it and see how much wider it is. Just makes it easier to get in position, adds to your flanking bonus and you need it to get Coup de Grace.

Coup de Grace is helpful because you will automatically backstab stunned enemies without having to be behind them. It really shines in one-on-one situations like duels or down to just your warden, where moving behind them is not so easy. Crit only comes into play if you're not using a backstab.

Modifié par Urshakk, 23 août 2013 - 09:24 .

[Blazomancer]

Combat movement is ok especially for a CUNN rogue who's already short on attack rating. But Coup de Grace is really useful to take out high priority targets quickly - say following up with a barrage of backstabs on a mage that you've stunned with Dirty Fighting or Riposte, or may be someone that one of your mages have paralyzed or Alistair have stunned. You don't really need it if you don't want to, but it surely helps in dispatching things faster. A backstabbing rogue don't really need a high crit rate, that is true.

While using full sized weapons it would be very difficult to get to 70 CUNN; even if you get it, it'll be like in lvl 20 or so.

When it comes to full sized weapons, then it's optimal to play a warrior from damage dealing PoV, since there's a very good probability that one will end up splitting points into STR & CUNN. It wouldn't matter much if you don't care about that.

[keeneaow]

You may be interested in this
Awakenings: Why Backstab? 100% Melee Critical Chance FTW (Video added)
http://social.biowar...6/index/2056397
I will also say that if you are looking for peak performance in awakening,
you have to keep some un-allocated un-spent skills and talent points,
to immediately spend when you enter awakening, since awakening has more powerful skills/talents
IF you have the points to spend on it.
I suggest at least 3 unspent skills for vitality and probably 6 unspent talent points for
spirit warrior/legionnaire scout/[insert better than origins talents]
this may be of interest
http://dragonage.wik...icient_Approach

[cJohnOne]

Call me strange but I usually don't backstab unless it's with dirty fighting and coup de grace. I do 50% dexterity and 50% cunning. I think getting deft hands allows you to not take Leliana which is good. Come to think of it I never play DW rogues so this more theoretical than I would like to admit ha ha. Also like to get lethality. and below the belt, momentum. That's all I can think of right now.

[NocturneNight]

Well I have now finished the Broken Circle quest on Hard, and my Rogue is coming along well. Finally having a healer at my back made the game significantly easier, and watching my Rogue's damage increase substantially from Lethality was quite cool. I even slew the Revenant, though it was one heck of a tough battle! All in all I'm having lots of fun and I'm happy I didn't turn down the difficulty since that'd make the game way too easy by now.

But I couldn't open all the chests despite my Rogue having 35 CUN and 2 in Lockpicking; I'm guessing you are playing the console version, Urshakk? It's said to be alot easier than the PC version.

[keeneaow]

I use Lock Bash mod, so there's only a couple of chests in mage tower and denirim
where i have to bring Leliana to open them, perhaps some other chest somewhere i cant be bothered to remember.
Yes, i never use Leliana so i max her cunning and stealing and pick locking.

http://dragonage.nex....com/mods/301/?

[caradoc2000]

NocturneNight wrote...

But I couldn't open all the chests despite my Rogue having 35 CUN and 2 in Lockpicking; I'm guessing you are playing the console version, Urshakk? It's said to be alot easier than the PC version.

The circle tower has a couple of very hard locks (you need 60 cunning for those, you only have 55).

[NocturneNight]

keeneaow: that mod sounds like cheating to me tbh.

Thanks Cara, so it seems.

[caradoc2000]

Another use for a rogue is in the trap-heavy areas. Place your party on hold, take a stealthed rogue ahead and disarm the traps, then go fetch your party. Not only does this make the fights easier, but it also nets you quite a bit of xp from the traps.

[keeneaow]

NocturneNight wrote...

keeneaow: that mod sounds like cheating to me tbh.
 

A very mild one, more like an annoyance remover, i go solo all the time anyway so wouldnt bother with teleporting leliana for each and every elf-root that is locked up.
And besides, i'm strong enuff to slay a high dragon on my own, but havnt got the strength to
pick an elf-root in a wooden chest ?

[Urshakk]

NocturneNight wrote...

But I couldn't open all the chests despite my Rogue having 35 CUN and 2 in Lockpicking; I'm guessing you are playing the console version, Urshakk? It's said to be alot easier than the PC version.

I play on the PC, and I may have overlooked the +cunning from gear giving me the boost to 40+ from the mid to high thirties. There are only a couple of 60xp chests in the Circle tower's second to last floor, which you can come back to open later on when you are able to.