215 réponses à ce sujet

[Allan Schumacher]

In Exile wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Now, you can decide that Frank should always be excruciatingly careful about how he says things (I've learned that on this forum myself), but at the same time, Aaryn Flynn was called out on his twitter for the choice of "Do I save the village or let it burn" and responded with something akin to "It didn't come out the way I had meant. I was more meaning do you choose something else at the expense of the village?"

So like in DA:A? 

I think you're over analyzing the specifics of the choice again... hahaha.

But yeah, Amarathine (from what I can remember.  I didn't really work on Awakening nor did I play it through, unfortunately) would probably be appropriate.

It's more generally:  "Choose thing A, which may have consequences elsewhere, or choose something else, which has consequences with how thing A plays out."


Although the example was more to illustrate that something may come across clear in one's head, but others read into it differently.  Aaryn's is a bit more worthy of scrutiny, however, since it was actually part of active promotion of the game.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 24 août 2013 - 08:04 .

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
... and comic companies have, for quite some time, been bending over backwards to create great "jumping on" points - a good tip is a change in creative team on a title.  That usually means things are getting shaken up and a new status quo is about to be set.  Or DC's pseudo-reboot.  Or the fact that Quesada and Bendis, like the kings of Marvel comics, both believe "continuity" is a four-letter word.

And speaking as the potential new audience, that makes it worse, not better. If they wanted new readers, then they can have a proper full reboot with origin story, like the various comic movies do. Otherwise, anything short of that, it won't work. 

That's the medium.  It's like ongoing television series.  If you can't accept that something has had a lot of history to it, that you could potentially not know what some reference in a given story is because you didn't read a previous story, then it isn't for you.

Clearly you don't want what mainstream comic books have to offer.

Manga has it's own quirks.  How many different versions of the same series of characters / stories exist?  How many BGC?  How many KOR?  How many Tenchi, AMG, Evangelion?

American comics may "continues" on for decades with the same characters and world, more or less, and feel overwhelming... but Japanese comics retell the same stories in slightly different ways over and over.

Is one better than the other?

Seriously, you don't like how comic books are made / written / released, that's fine.  I don't think it's for you as you don't seem to want to be pleased.

Either it's too deep and you don't want to jump in, but if they restart stuff or give you a somewhat stable, clean, hand-holding entry-point, that's bad too.

Whatever.  I need to keep reminding myself of the headaches I get when I try to have a conversation with you, In Exile.  You are like the opposite of aspirin.

[ScotGaymer]

I mean this with all due respect to Mr Gibbeau.

He says silly things like this ALL the time. Seriously. I've lost count of the times hes been "quoted" as saying something that makes him sound like a gibbering idiot.

I tend to take it with a pinch of salt now.

[Sejborg]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If that is the case, then only half a dozen games sounds like very few games to have in development for a corporation the size of EA. Bioware alone is bringing 3 of those games. Just admit it makes no sense.

Half a dozen original IPs is the word used. Just admit you are being pedantic to EA because it's EA (rhetorical: I did this to point out it's pretty damned annoying when someone concludes their post with something like this).

Yes. Half a dozen original IP's and when he starts calling Dragon Age a new IP, then I find it hard to believe that EA is only making half a dozen new games. What about the new Mass Effect game, the unnamed new Bioware game, Titanfall, Mirrors Edge, Star Wars Battlefront, the new Star Wars game from Visceral - we are quickly going to exceed half a dozen games.

Just admit that Dragon Age is not a new IP and stop feeding us this bull****. 

And no. I am not doing this because it's EA. I'm doing this because I'm bored and can't move because of a sprained foot.

[In Exile]

MerinTB wrote...
That's the medium.  It's like ongoing television series.  If you can't accept that something has had a lot of history to it, that you could potentially not know what some reference in a given story is because you didn't read a previous story, then it isn't for you.

It's not the history - it's the structure. The best example I can give is that it feels like starting to watch a 45 minute TV show at 25:44. 

Manga has it's own quirks.  How many different versions of the same series of characters / stories exist?  How many BGC?  How many KOR?  How many Tenchi, AMG, Evangelion?

Actually, I prefer manhwa, but that's neither here nor there. There are lots of great manga that only have one version. A lot of the popular anime and manga have lots of versions, but not the ones I read. 

There lots of stories that don't make it stateside that are quite unique. And there's nothing wrong with retelling similar stories - the whole fantasy genre is retelling the same story - when you're using new characters, conflicts, etc. 

Either it's too deep and you don't want to jump in, but if they restart stuff or give you a somewhat stable, clean, hand-holding entry-point, that's bad too. 

I didn't say that. Maybe it isn't apparent to you because of how deep into the genre you are, but something like DC's new 52 doesn't help fix things because the problem is the continuity bloat. They got things backwards, in a sense. 

Whatever.  I need to keep reminding myself of the headaches I get when I try to have a conversation with you, In Exile.  You are like the opposite of aspirin.

Nothing like ending a conversation with a few insults. I don't see why you bother to talk to me if you dislike me so much. 

Modifié par In Exile, 24 août 2013 - 08:20 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Sejborg wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If that is the case, then only half a dozen games sounds like very few games to have in development for a corporation the size of EA. Bioware alone is bringing 3 of those games. Just admit it makes no sense.

Half a dozen original IPs is the word used. Just admit you are being pedantic to EA because it's EA (rhetorical: I did this to point out it's pretty damned annoying when someone concludes their post with something like this).

Yes. Half a dozen original IP's and when he starts calling Dragon Age a new IP, then I find it hard to believe that EA is only making half a dozen new games. What about the new Mass Effect game, the unnamed new Bioware game, Titanfall, Mirrors Edge, Star Wars Battlefront, the new Star Wars game from Visceral - we are quickly going to exceed half a dozen games.

Just admit that Dragon Age is not a new IP and stop feeding us this bull****. 

And no. I am not doing this because it's EA. I'm doing this because I'm bored and can't move because of a sprained foot.

Have you tried soaking it in some Epsom salt mixed with warm water?

[cindercatz]

MerinTB wrote...
Sorry, not only do I write comics I am a comic book retailer.  Kind of a passion of mine.

Mine too.

But life has dictated I fall behind by a few years. Trying to keep up or catch up with all the top down, company wide nonsense (or some of it; I've dropped most of what I collect) has become next to impossible even for me. I agree with most everything you said, straight up, The only thing I have to caution is that, if I'm speaking to a new reader that does want to go back and catch up, depending on the titles involved, I might be highly selective with what the major beats and narrative high points are that I'd suggest. Regardless of price, there's just so much out there that the investment of time alone becomes daunting.

Annnnnd to veer back on topic. This is why it's such a great thing that BioWare is doing its best to respect our import continuity, reinvention or no.

quick edit: New 52 is the reason I gave up on mainstream DC, just for reference. The spider-marriage getting written out of existence is the reason I gave up on Spider-Man. Those kinds of resets and reboots are kind of the nail in the coffin for whatever it is getting written over, for me at least. If I see that happen, the continuity is broken and the story (as a whole) is invalidated (or plain non-existent often times). In cases like that, I won't even consider going back to those properties. 'Cause, why bother, really? Anytime you need a reboot, just wrap up your existing short term plotlines, start a new arc and have some coffee.  Let characters age and the world change around them. Embrace new elements and new blood. Move on organically. Your property will be much healthier in the long run.

Modifié par cindercatz, 24 août 2013 - 08:45 .

[Abraham_uk]

cjones91 wrote...

How can DA:I be a new IP when it's part of a existing one?That makes no sense so can someone explain it to me?

I think what they mean is as follows.

Call of Duty
Call of Duty Modern Warfare
Call of Duty Black Ops
Call of Duty World At War


All of the above are different game series within the Call of Duty Universe.


I think what EA are saying is that Inquisition will be it's own sub series within the Dragon Age Universe.

Dragon Age Inquisition
Dragon Age Inquisition 2
Dragon Age Inquisition 3
Dragon Age Inquisition 4
etc...

Perhaps if Inquisition sub series makes a lot of money, there might be other Sub Series within the Dragon Age Universe set during different time periods, (just like how Call of Duty has different sub series in different time periods).

Dragon Age Rise of Thedas
Dragon Age Fall of Man
Dragon Age Unity
Dragon Age Lost Stories



This is pure speculation. Feel free to debunk my claims.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

I'm just going to pretend to ignore what EA says about Bioware games otherwise I'll end up disappointed again like with ME3.

[Twisted Path]

This sounds like a sign that the term "IP" has been thrown around so much in marketing jargon that it's lost all meaning. I think it used to be an abbreviation for something? "Intellectual something something?" Who cares! It's a trendy thing to say.

I'm betting the next term they'll completely butcher is "reboot." If it hasn't happened already we're going to come to a point soon where people are referring to straight-up vanilla sequels as "reboots."

[slimgrin]

It's being called a new IP because they don't want to own that bastard child called DA2.

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Whatever.  I need to keep reminding myself of the headaches I get when I try to have a conversation with you, In Exile.  You are like the opposite of aspirin.

Nothing like ending a conversation with a few insults. I don't see why you bother to talk to me if you dislike me so much. 

Apologies.  That sounds harsher than it was intended.  I meant that we see things so differently that, most of the time, I feel like I'm trying to translate Mandarin without having any experience with the language.

[MerinTB]

Abraham_uk wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
How can DA:I be a new IP when it's part of a existing one?That makes no sense so can someone explain it to me?

I think what they mean is as follows.

Call of Duty
Call of Duty Modern Warfare
Call of Duty Black Ops
Call of Duty World At War

(...)

All of the above are different game series within the Call of Duty Universe.


This is pure speculation. Feel free to debunk my claims.

That...




That makes a crapload of sense, actually.  If THAT is what is meant, then I'm thinking it was spoken inarticulately but has some grounding.

It'd be like Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40k.  Same universe, yes, but arguably completely different IP's.

[Sejborg]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

And no. I am not doing this because it's EA. I'm doing this because I'm bored and can't move because of a sprained foot.

Have you tried soaking it in some Epsom salt mixed with warm water?

No. But let's say I did that. That would demand a whole lot of work, that I have never put into my foot before. So by rights I should be allowed to call it a brand new foot? Or should I say a whole new IP attached to my leg? 

Modifié par Sejborg, 24 août 2013 - 08:44 .

[In Exile]

MerinTB wrote...
Apologies.  That sounds harsher than it was intended.  I meant that we see things so differently that, most of the time, I feel like I'm trying to translate Mandarin without having any experience with the language.

Apology accepted. We do have completely different tastes, so it's pretty much square peg vs. round hole. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Technically it's "on Sylvius' and my side."

Stated correctly, it would be "on Sylvius's and my side."  Misusing apostrophes like that (I don't care if the Chicago style guide agrees with you - it's wrong) only creates ambiguity.

[Sylvius the Mad]

MerinTB wrote...

Are you now going to say "it depends on what the word IP is", President Clinton?

As an aside, the President was correct when he questioned the meaning of the word "is"  Present tense verbs are often used ambiguously.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sejborg wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Sejborg wrote...

And no. I am not doing this because it's EA. I'm doing this because I'm bored and can't move because of a sprained foot.

Have you tried soaking it in some Epsom salt mixed with warm water?

No. But let's say I did that. That would demand a whole lot of work, that I have never put into my foot before. So by rights I should be allowed to call it a brand new foot? Or should I say a whole new IP attached to my leg? 

Well, I'm assuming your leg is a physical object, not an intellectual concept. And the only way it would be property is if you were some type of indentured servant (or, at the least, a prostitute, depending on the circumstances). So I'm not sure it would qualify.

But, all other technicalities aside, yes. It would be like that. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Are you now going to say "it depends on what the word IP is", President Clinton?

As an aside, the President was correct when he questioned the meaning of the word "is"  Present tense verbs are often used ambiguously.

This is why we should all just speak Esperanto.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

This is why we should all just speak Esperanto.

Lojban would be better. 

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

MerinTB wrote...
Are you now going to say "it depends on what the word IP is", President Clinton?

As an aside, the President was correct when he questioned the meaning of the word "is"  Present tense verbs are often used ambiguously.

He was, but he was being disingenuous.

That kind of response is why court room oaths are not "will you tell the truth?" but instead "do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?"

I believe that some people, specifically marketing and PR people, are being disingenuous when they say crap like "you can't define what an RPG is."  The problem is that so many people used it to mean so many things that the meaning got lost, esepcially when using examples instead of hard-defined terms.

NOT trying to start THAT discussion, just saying that sophistry should be called out.

[TheRealJayDee]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I didn't really work on Awakening nor did I play it through, unfortunately

Whaaat...?

[Abraham_uk]

List of possible reasons for the use of "IP".

Sub Series: A sub series like Call of Duty Modern Warfare, Call of Duty Black Ops. Or Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K as someone pointed out

Mysterious New Feature: By "IP" EA means that there will be a unique yet to be disclosed gaming feature that will set it apart from other games. A new game play feature that no other game will be allowed to even come close to imitate.

If Bioware has something so special and unique that other developers will want to imitate it, then I can imagine this becoming an intellectual property.

Incorrect Use of The Term IP: That the term "IP" is just being used incorrectly to signify a change of direction in the Dragon Age series. This is another possibility, given the supposed return open world (as opposed to a collection of closed environments to explore).

Because it's "cool": Perhaps whoever used the word IP was just saying that because they believe the word is hip and modern.

Don't know what IP means?: I included this one on the list because I want to cover every base (even the unlikely ones). I highly doubt this is the case. EA specialises in the publishing and marketing of games. Whoever made that comment works for EA and would know what the word Intellectual Property means.


Are there any bases I haven't covered? There must be plenty... Surely...

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 24 août 2013 - 09:32 .

[MerinTB]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

This is why we should all just speak Esperanto.

Lojban would be better. 

I thought Tolkien told us that Elven was the perfect language of the perfect people?

[Fast Jimmy]

MerinTB wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

This is why we should all just speak Esperanto.

Lojban would be better. 

I thought Tolkien told us that Elven was the perfect language of the perfect people?

Tolkien was far from a linguist. 

EDIT: Also... that would apply that humans are a perfect people. Which I'd contest to being at all true. 

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 24 août 2013 - 09:31 .