67 réponses à ce sujet

[JudgeQwerty]

So I understand why humans would be incredibly bitter about the First Contact War, but I think its hilarious that turians in general don't really care and just think humans need to get over it. Its pretty embarrassing when the most important conflict your species has fought in the last century is simply referred to as the 'Relay 314 Incident'.

I kind of hope we'll meet actual Turian veterans in ME2. The closest we ever got was Saren, who probably wasn't actually involved and simply had a brother serving there.

[izmirtheastarach]

I suppose one of the major differences is that the Turians actually occupied a human settled world. And from what Ashley tells you, there were pretty brutal to the populace there. Turians aren't exactly subtle.

[marshalleck]

Of course, it's likewise somewhat embarrassing to have your occupying force annihilated by a "backwater" species when you are regarded as the supreme military force in the galaxy. It's only natural they'd want to downplay the scale and significance of their defeat by calling it an "incident."

Modifié par marshalleck, 19 janvier 2010 - 12:04 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

What's there to be bitter about? Humanity won Shanxi back and have progressed further than any species in recent history.



And I think the Krogan have suffered worse.

[Daerog]

There was the turian general at Choras Den.

Also, Turians have done this loads of time before hand. They've conquered many species before and integrated them into their culture. Kind of like the Tau or Roman Empire, they integrate a new species into their society and have them be auxiliaries (spelling?) before being full citizens. Or, if the other species don't surrender, they could possibly be wiped out, with only survivors, if any, being integrated.

Edit: Errr, not so much the Roman Empire, the Roman Empire used barbarians as auxiliaries, but anybody they conquered they enslaved, so different...

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 19 janvier 2010 - 12:05 .

[Captain Crash]

Considering the Turians starting mounting a full scale fleet to take on the humans I dont think it was 'minor' incident. They just say that to get humans backs up! Guess what it works really well as were still really bitter about it!



Big Turian joke. As the council stepped in to stop them. Probably a good thing to be honest!

[Daerog]

Full scale fleet mounting to conquer the humans. Ya, they always go total war, they don't mess around. Like I said, they've done this a lot before, they don't just use some of their troops, they will try to end a conflict asap and in their favor.

[Lightice_av]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I suppose one of the major differences is that the Turians actually occupied a human settled world. And from what Ashley tells you, there were pretty brutal to the populace there. Turians aren't exactly subtle.

Not that brutal. Only about 500 dead, most soldiers killed in combat; the psychological impact was far greater than the physical damage. The Turians suffered slightly greater casualities, since humans didn't know how to deal with an alien species, and didn't consider taking prisoners for a good while.

[JudgeQwerty]

Its mentioned that the Turians at Shanxi were wiping out entire blocks to eliminate a single soldier. That reminded me of the Roman practice of 'decimation' where they would anihilate one tenth of the populace to inspire fear and keep their numbers down.

[Fro_McJoe]

VIVA ROMA!

[OasisForever1991]

I think what would really be cool is if Drew would write a book about the First Contact War. Have it based off a regular soldier who was important in the war and have just be about Human and Turian life in general. I think it would be cool to see or read about the deep feelings of Turian life on the home worlds and such.

I'm sure there could be games made by Bioware in the furture just about certain species the Mass Effect universe. And certain individuals like Shepard who saved like a planet or something during a war.

Thoughts?

[Aedan_Cousland]

JudgeQwerty wrote...

Its mentioned that the Turians at Shanxi were wiping out entire blocks to eliminate a single soldier. That reminded me of the Roman practice of 'decimation' where they would anihilate one tenth of the populace to inspire fear and keep their numbers down.

Actually the Roman practice of decimation was applied to the army. If a Legion had not aquitted itself well on the battlefield or had mutinied, it could be punished by having the men broken off into groups of ten, each drawing lots to determine which of the ten would die. The 'lucky' 9 would then be forced to kill their 10th comrade. In practice it was rarely used, but the threat of it no doubt kept men in line.

The Romans could also be quite brutal with subjugated foreigners however, who weren't too keen on accepting Roman rule. After one battle in Gaul  for example Julius Caesar had his men hack off the hands of the Gauls they captured, and then set them free as an example to all the penalty of raising a sword against Rome.

[vhatever]

So if the Turians are Romans, does that make humans Germanic tribesman?



They completely humilated Rome by destroying 3-4 entire legions(half of their entire european army) of the Roman army in one battle. Greatest loss Rome ever suffered, if not any empire in history.

[windsock]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

There was the turian general at Choras Den.

Also, Turians have done this loads of time before hand. They've conquered many species before and integrated them into their culture. Kind of like the Tau or Roman Empire, they integrate a new species into their society and have them be auxiliaries (spelling?) before being full citizens. Or, if the other species don't surrender, they could possibly be wiped out, with only survivors, if any, being integrated.

Edit: Errr, not so much the Roman Empire, the Roman Empire used barbarians as auxiliaries, but anybody they conquered they enslaved, so different...

The auxilliaries were simply soldiers that Rome (definition varying on the period of time) didn't provide. This goes back to the early republic when allied cities provided auxliliaries. Eventually the rights of citizenship were gradually extended out further. Rome would intigrate a new people peacefully, but if they fought, they would be put down. Not everyone they conquered they put into slavery, just those within the reach of an army on a punitive march.
 

[Medhia Nox]

That's because Turians are portrayed as an advanced, space-mature race.



Humans on the other hand are nasty, violent, arrogant hairless monkeys who think that they should be part of the Council only because they're human.. and, isn't that enough?



Funny how the "Divine Right" of Humanity exists even in a growing secular age.

[GnusmasTHX]

marshalleck wrote...

Of course, it's likewise somewhat embarrassing to have your occupying force annihilated by a "backwater" species when you are regarded as the supreme military force in the galaxy. It's only natural they'd want to downplay the scale and significance of their defeat by calling it an "incident."

This. Turian casualties were higher than SA. They got owned considering the above. As for the post above mine, I honestly don't know where that sort of sentiment is portrayed in ME1, outside maybe Terra Firma and other such people and organizations.

It's not as if the Council asked US to join them after they realized how the turians got schooled. Oh wait, they did. We're obviously capable and have greater potential than any other species gives us credit for. Even more so when you bring ME2 in the picture. Same thing over again. Humanity pulling the rest of the galaxy out of the pooper.

As for the cause of the First Contact War itself, it's pretty silly to think that they'd attack humanity for opening Relays, instead of sending like a diplomatic envoy. I mean... Humanity wasn't at all related to the Citadel... AT ALL. 

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 19 janvier 2010 - 01:53 .

[KenLyns]

OasisForever1991 wrote...
I think what would really be cool is if Drew would write a book about the First Contact War. Have it based off a regular soldier who was important in the war and have just be about Human and Turian life in general. I think it would be cool to see or read about the deep feelings of Turian life on the home worlds and such.

Ahern.  "In an instant, the extraction site had turned into a meat grinder, the ground covered with fallen turian and human soldiers alike. Amid the deafening boom of four turrets..." 
 

It would be nice to have that and all the preservice history (Torfan, Mindoir, Akuze, Elysium) wrapped in a prequel game. Call it "Mass Effect Zero" or something. Have the game import your ME1 save. Plays as some other character, but meet your customized Shepard in game... 

[Medhia Nox]

Actually, it is mentioned in the book that the Turians would have wiped humanity away had the Council not stepped in.



The Turians killed at the relay were a scout patrol.



BTW.. we American's have some hyper-advanced military units in some pretty "primitive" places. We're not doing well... it doesn't take a lot of firepower to sneak attack someone.



It was the Turian/Human - Pearl Harbor. Oh, and the Turian's were (would have been) America.. had the Council not saved our race from extinction.

[The-Person]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Actually, it is mentioned in the book that the Turians would have wiped humanity away had the Council not stepped in.

The Turians killed at the relay were a scout patrol.

BTW.. we American's have some hyper-advanced military units in some pretty "primitive" places. We're not doing well... it doesn't take a lot of firepower to sneak attack someone.

It was the Turian/Human - Pearl Harbor. Oh, and the Turian's were (would have been) America.. had the Council not saved our race from extinction.

It was not Turians whowere killed at the relay, they were humans. The turians attack a human scouting patrol, not the other way around.

[pharos_gryphon]

Medhia Nox wrote...

That's because Turians are portrayed as an advanced, space-mature race.

Humans on the other hand are nasty, violent, arrogant hairless monkeys who think that they should be part of the Council only because they're human.. and, isn't that enough?

Funny how the "Divine Right" of Humanity exists even in a growing secular age.

Heh, now that you mention it, it -does- rather remind me of the whole 'Manifest Destiny' that we in the US became so obsessed with in regards to the US going from coast to coast and 'pacifying' the Indians.  Cerebus would gladly see us do the same to take charge of the galaxy.  After all, their goal isn't just for humanity to have a greater role galactically, but for human domination.

[Medhia Nox]

I was wrong. The Turians did fire first..



But it wasn't really a scouting patrol. It was humans doing what they do best - they were just expanding into space and opening forbidden relays. I mean, who cares what's behind these relays obviously created by some other interstellar species.. let's just reactivate it and deal with the consequences later.



Well - the consequences were the equivalent of police brutality by the Turians.



Curiosity killed the human.

[GnusmasTHX]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I was wrong. The Turians did fire first..

But it wasn't really a scouting patrol. It was humans doing what they do best - they were just expanding into space and opening forbidden relays. I mean, who cares what's behind these relays obviously created by some other interstellar species.. let's just reactivate it and deal with the consequences later.

Well - the consequences were the equivalent of police brutality by the Turians.

Curiosity killed the human.

Forbidden to themselves. As far as I know police agencies from, for example, Japan wouldn't have any jurisdiction here in Canada. 

The only way this would makes sense is if we stumbled into turian/Citadel territory, which is never clearly mentioned in ME1. (Perhaps in the novels, but I haven't read them.) Even so, the territory must've been largely empty if took us trying to open ANOTHER relay after we had just gotten out of one, for the turians to notice that we were there.

What's worse is to think that they saw as arrive (from a previously unopened Relay) didn't do anything, and simply attacked us when we tried to open the next.

[Northern Sun]

The turians downplay the incident because a species they tried to make a second-class species in their empire was able to successfully fight back. It must have been quite embarrassing for the turian military to get an occupying force wiped out.

[HiroVoid]

Well, no matter what anyone says, it was that conflict which put humans on the spotlight. If we hadn't been able to fight back, the rest of the species wouldn't have thought nearly as much of us as they would have if we just gave up. It is obvious that the Turians would have defeated us if they actually got ready for a full-scale war, but the Turians also would have lost many numbers as well. That's part of the reason the Council stepped in.

[Nemesis Shield]

vhatever wrote...

So if the Turians are Romans, does that make humans Germanic tribesman?

They completely humilated Rome by destroying 3-4 entire legions(half of their entire european army) of the Roman army in one battle. Greatest loss Rome ever suffered, if not any empire in history.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the Battle of Cannae in 216 BC against Hannibal Barca the greatest loss that the Romans ever suffered?

My impression was that the casualties at the Teutoberg Forest in 9 CE weren't quite as high as at Cannae because a substantial number of Romans did actually manage to break through out of the forest. On the other hand, there were hundreds of women and children accompanying the 3 legions at Teutoberg as part of the baggage and supply train, since the soldiers and their families were essentially relocating to more permanent forts. I am not sure what the casualties were among those unfortunates.